Seattle's transit system struggles as riders refuse to pay

[Schism]

Seattle's transit system struggles as riders refuse to pay

There are no turnstiles, so passengers are supposed to either buy a ticket or tap their pre-paid card. But so few riders are paying, fares are currently covering just 5% of the system’s operating costs, a fraction of the 40% mark Sound Transit set as a requirement.

At a recent Sound Transit Board meeting, the outgoing CEO summed up the situation. "Our fare collection system relies overwhelmingly on an honor system," Peter Rogoff said, "and our increasingly acute problem is that our riders aren’t honoring the system."

A few quotes from the article:

"By one measurement, as many as a staggering 70% of all passengers are free riders. But even that is only an estimate as there is almost no fare enforcement."

Entitlement.

"About 76% of the free-riding passengers refuse to produce valid ID, which makes it impossible to issue a warning. "

Why should they? They're entitled.

"What we’re seeing here in Seattle is the systemic decriminalization of everything, all the way from fare box recovery to failure to register as a sex offender, and using the guise of equity and social justice so that there isn’t any enforcement of laws," said Dunn, "And what you get is higher crime and more evasion."

You get what you vote for.

But, the lone Republican on the Sound Transit Board says taxpayers who have forked over $168 billion for the system are getting ripped off.

"It’s gotta be safe, secure, reliable and sustainable, or it’s the biggest waste of money we’ve ever seen," said Bruce Dammeier.

$168 Billion they'll never recover, be able to maintain, and apparently don't care.

This is what Progressives want: free everything that someone else pays for. They have no idea what it costs who's going to pay for it, as long as it's not them.

 

[Phys251]

Seattle's transit system struggles as riders refuse to pay


A few quotes from the article:

Entitlement.


Why should they? They're entitled.


You get what you vote for.



$168 Billion they'll never recover, be able to maintain, and apparently don't care.

This is what Progressives want: free everything that someone else pays for. They have no idea what it costs who's going to pay for it, as long as it's not them.

Relax, Schism. Fare evaders are a problem with any transit system that doesn't have fare gates.

They just need more--ahem--fare enforcement!

 

[Schism]

Relax, Schism. Fare evaders are a problem with any transit system that doesn't have fare gates.

They just need more--ahem--fare enforcement!

Relax, it's only $168B!

 

[Chomsky]

Seattle's transit system struggles as riders refuse to pay


A few quotes from the article:

Entitlement.


Why should they? They're entitled.


You get what you vote for.



$168 Billion they'll never recover, be able to maintain, and apparently don't care.

This is what Progressives want: free everything that someone else pays for. They have no idea what it costs who's going to pay for it, as long as it's not them.

What???

Why is access not restricted?

I've riding els & subways since I was a baby in my parents' & grandparents' arms!. I've never seen one (in my city) without access restriction.

 

[Chomsky]

Relax, Schism. Fare evaders are a problem with any transit system that doesn't have fare gates.

They just need more--ahem--fare enforcement!

But, 70%?

That needs to be addressed.

We've got turnstile jumpers in my city, but they're a small minority.

 

[Phys251]

What???

Why is access not restricted?

I've riding els & subways since I was a baby in my parents' & grandparents' arms!. I've never seen one (in my city) without access restriction.

Most light transit systems don't have fare gates. They sometimes have officers who check for tickets.

 

[Chomsky]

Most light transit systems don't have fare gates. They sometimes have officers who check for tickets.

Interesting.

I wonder why that would be? Cost saving? If so, it would seem to be counter-productive in this case.

Geezus, 70%! That means the honest 30% is paying over 3X times the fair rate, in order to cover the miscreants' skipping-out on fares.

 

[Rexedgar]

What???

Why is access not restricted?

I've riding els & subways since I was a baby in my parents' & grandparents' arms!. I've never seen one (in my city) without access restriction.

None in Berlin or London, IIRC. You don’t want to get caught w/o a ticket. Another observation, in the US crossing against a light is much more prevalent than in cities we have visited in Europe. Germans are probably the most law-abiding citizens I have witnessed….


Edit, London does have a barrier that needs to be navigated with a ticket.

 

[Phys251]

Interesting.

I wonder why that would be? Cost saving? If so, it would seem to be counter-productive in this case.

Geezus, 70%! That means the honest 30% is paying over 3X times the fair rate, in order to cover the miscreants' skipping-out on fares.

It's partly the design of the stations, which are often at-grade and aren't much more elaborate than just shelters for waiting passengers.

Word of good enforcement of ticket-holding will spread. Some light rail systems have it and some don't.

 

[Napoleon]

Shut it down. Let them walk.

 

[Grand Mal]

None in Berlin or London, IIRC. You don’t want to get caught w/o a ticket. Another observation, in the US crossing against a light is much more prevalent than in cities we have visited in Europe. Germans are probably the most law-abiding citizens I have witnessed….


Edit, London does have a barrier that needs to be navigated with a ticket.

Gawd, my ex-wife was half German, old-country German. I remember her driving late at night, 2-3 in the morning, sitting at an intersection with not a headlight in sight in any direction, waiting for the light to turn green! All my Celtic ancestors were squirming.

 

[Chomsky]

None in Berlin or London, IIRC. You don’t want to get caught w/o a ticket. Another observation, in the US crossing against a light is much more prevalent than in cities we have visited in Europe. Germans are probably the most law-abiding citizens I have witnessed….


Edit, London does have a barrier that needs to be navigated with a ticket.

Interesting, in the lack of turnstiles. I'd hope there's random ticket-checks, then.

And yes, I've often heard that pedestrian traffic more highly regulated and enforced in Europe.

 

[Rexedgar]

Interesting, in the lack of turnstiles. I'd hope there's random ticket-checks, then.

And yes, I've often heard that pedestrian traffic more highly regulated and enforced in Europe.

The fines for transit scofflaws are steep in Berlin.

I make the traffic/pedestrian compliance as more of a mindset than fear of stepping out of line.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Relevant

 

[Rawley]

Relax, Schism. Fare evaders are a problem with any transit system that doesn't have fare gates.

They just need more--ahem--fare enforcement!

WhoTF doesn't have turnstiles?

 

[Chomsky]

It's partly the design of the stations, which are often at-grade and aren't much more elaborate than just shelters for waiting passengers.

Word of good enforcement of ticket-holding will spread. Some light rail systems have it and some don't.

Here's how it's done in the bigger American cities, where public miscreants are a constant hazard :

1] The turnstile bars on the entrance turnstiles only spin one direction (outward), unless a fare is deposited. Then, it will only move 1/3rd of a revolution to accommodate only one individual.

2] The exit turnstiles likewise only turn in one direction - exiting:

3] Here the entrance & exit turnstiles are used in combination:

--

Note how in all instances above, the entire area is essentially sealed-off from any ingress or egress, besides going through the turnstiles.

 

[Chomsky]

The fines for transit scofflaws are steep in Berlin.

I make the traffic/pedestrian compliance as more of a mindset than fear of stepping out of line.

That's also my take.

Then there my pics in my post above, sadly, showing the American situation . . .

 

[Chomsky]

WhoTF doesn't have turnstiles?

Apparently, many of us that don't live in the larger older cities!

 

[gdgyva]

Gawd, my ex-wife was half German, old-country German. I remember her driving late at night, 2-3 in the morning, sitting at an intersection with not a headlight in sight in any direction, waiting for the light to turn green! All my Celtic ancestors were squirming.

i spent 4 years in Germany.....and rule # 1 i learned

you dont mess with the polizei

and before i bought my used mercedes over there, i rode the buses.....and they would check on my tickets at least 2-3x a week

and the fines were HIGH....

better to just buy the damn tickets

 

[Helix]

None in Berlin or London, IIRC. You don’t want to get caught w/o a ticket. Another observation, in the US crossing against a light is much more prevalent than in cities we have visited in Europe. Germans are probably the most law-abiding citizens I have witnessed….


Edit, London does have a barrier that needs to be navigated with a ticket.

London's system is awesome. I was amazed at how affordable it was. I rode it extensively for three days and still didn't spend all of the money that i put on the Oyster card.

 

[Loulit01]

So Seattle can solve the problem by putting up barriers like every city with sense. Problem solved. Next.

 

[Fishking]

Seattle's transit system struggles as riders refuse to pay

"By one measurement, as many as a staggering 70% of all passengers are free riders. But even that is only an estimate as there is almost no fare enforcement."

"About 76% of the free-riding passengers refuse to produce valid ID, which makes it impossible to issue a warning. "

You mean liberal utopia is full of free loaders and it causes money to run out? I'm shocked. SHOCKED!

 

[Grand Mal]

You mean liberal utopia is full of free loaders and it causes money to run out? I'm shocked. SHOCKED!

Liberal utopia. What a stupid thing to say.
Are all right-whinger libertarians this ignorant of simple concepts? If such a thing could possibly exist it certainly wouldn't exist in a country so full of ignorant right whingers.

 

[Fishking]

Liberal utopia. What a stupid thing to say.
Are all right-whinger libertarians this ignorant of simple concepts?

It's ain't me that has trouble with simple concepts, and that makes your comment deliciously and ironically funny.

 

[Grand Mal]

It's ain't me that has trouble with simple concepts, and that makes your comment deliciously and ironically funny.

You called an American city 'liberal utopia'. Yeah, I call that ignorance of simple concepts. Liberal is a simple concept, utopia is a simple concept and you don't understand what either means, evidently.