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SCOTUS throes out AZ's redneck voter ID law.

James D Hill

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So how many more times do red states have to get their redneck laws be deemed unconstitutional before you get a freaking clue? How many times do you right wingers need to get slapped in the face on voter ID laws,Anti abortion laws and soon to be anti gay rights law which is going to be thrown out. I know what they are afraid of in AZ. All they have to do is look at how liberal NM and COL have become because of the hispanic vote and they think they might be next.
 

head of joaquin

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Even the most conservative SC in history feels obliged to shoot down unconstitutional conservative laws aimed at suppressing voting.

The jig is up for the GOP when even Scalia abandons their shenanigans.
 

Fisher

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Requiring a birth certificate is not a redneck law by any stretch of the imagination. This was a ruling that they cannot bypass the federal procedure. Now they can turn around and go through the procedure and have the same "redneck" requirement.
 

James D Hill

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Requiring a birth certificate is not a redneck law by any stretch of the imagination. This was a ruling that they cannot bypass the federal procedure. Now they can turn around and go through the procedure and have the same "redneck" requirement.

Voter fraud is so rare yet the GOP actd like it is common.
 

Fisher

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Voter fraud is so rare yet the GOP actd like it is common.

How do you know it is so rare when the democrats block efforts to catch it? If we had photo ID requirements for 50 years and it never happened, then you wouldn't be arguing the unknown. Refusing a measure that would allow us to catch any in-person fraud and then claiming that it doesn't exist because we cannot catch it is disingenuous and Orwellian. It is being caught--it is just incredibly difficult to do it without an ID requirement so there is no real basis to factually say to what extent it does occur.
 

Kanstantine

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Proof of citizenship should be provided when someone registers to vote, as many states do not require proof of citizenship when registering.

Once you are registered and have shown proof of citizenship, simple photo ID should be required when voting.
 

Fiddytree

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How do you know it is so rare when the democrats block efforts to catch it? If we had photo ID requirements for 50 years and it never happened, then you wouldn't be arguing the unknown. Refusing a measure that would allow us to catch any in-person fraud and then claiming that it doesn't exist because we cannot catch it is disingenuous and Orwellian. It is being caught--it is just incredibly difficult to do it without an ID requirement so there is no real basis to factually say to what extent it does occur.

It depends on the state. For us, in a Republican controlled state for decades, this issue only started to become popular to talk about once the Tea Partiers from other states started complaining. Then two, three years later, because everyone else is talking about it, obviously we should too. :roll: Probably the most unfortunate thing about our current Republican Party in the state is that it thinks it should take some lessons from Tea Partiers and their problems in other states and transpose them on a state almost entirely without Tea Partier problems.
 

head of joaquin

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Requiring a birth certificate is not a redneck law by any stretch of the imagination. This was a ruling that they cannot bypass the federal procedure. Now they can turn around and go through the procedure and have the same "redneck" requirement.

The SC disagrees. Conservatives and their voter suppression schemes have been put on notice, even by the likes of the inert Scalia.
 

Kanstantine

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How do you know it is so rare when the democrats block efforts to catch it? If we had photo ID requirements for 50 years and it never happened, then you wouldn't be arguing the unknown. Refusing a measure that would allow us to catch any in-person fraud and then claiming that it doesn't exist because we cannot catch it is disingenuous and Orwellian. It is being caught--it is just incredibly difficult to do it without an ID requirement so there is no real basis to factually say to what extent it does occur.

Got any evidence that voter fraud is widespread?

Or are you following the nonsense logic of "absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence".
 

Kanstantine

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The SC disagrees. Conservatives and their voter suppression schemes have been put on notice, even by the likes of the inert Scalia.

Knowing that many states do not verify citizenship for voter registration, what is the problem with requiring proof of citizenship upon registration application?
 

head of joaquin

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Proof of citizenship should be provided when someone registers to vote, as many states do not require proof of citizenship when registering.

Once you are registered and have shown proof of citizenship, simple photo ID should be required when voting.

Exactly. Fraud happens at the registration level (and mostly by the GOP)

What the GOP wants to do is to make it hard for citizens to vote, since these laws aren't directed at real voter fraud, which doesn't and can't involved voting by persons without IDs.
 

head of joaquin

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Knowing that many states do not verify citizenship for voter registration, what is the problem with requiring proof of citizenship upon registration application?

Nothing. But that's not what the case was about at heart. It had to do with the preemption of federal law. If we don't like the law, we should change it. But it is the law.
 

Kanstantine

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Nothing. But that's not what the case was about at heart. It had to do with the preemption of federal law. If we don't like the law, we should change it. But it is the law.

Yes, Congress should change the election law.

All voter registrations MUST include citizenship verification.
 

head of joaquin

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Yes, Congress should change the election law.

All voter registrations MUST include citizenship verification.

Well, that's the issue. On its face I agree.

However, when you do that, you have to calculate the "costs" to voters in terms of citizens who for whatever reason can't show their citizenship and are thus disenfranchised.

The oath in the federal form is serious -- it's a federal crime to violate it. Are there really significant numbers of noncitizens who are willing to go to jail to vote? Why? And if that number is less than the number of citizens who can't vote because of document restrictions, is it worth it? In short is it worth disenfranchising citizens to prevent a few noncitizens from voting?

Presumably, in passing the federal law, these factual issues were investigated and addressed. I'm not saying they shouldn't be revisited, but there really appears to be little or no problem with noncitizens voting, and I can't imagine how such a problem could sway an election in any case. In general we should make voting as easy as possible.
 

Kanstantine

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Well, that's the issue. On its face I agree.

However, when you do that, you have to calculate the "costs" to voters in terms of citizens who for whatever reason can't show their citizenship and are thus disenfranchised.

The oath in the federal form is serious -- it's a federal crime to violate it. Are there really significant numbers of noncitizens who are willing to go to jail to vote? Why? And if that number is less than the number of citizens who can't vote because of document restrictions, is it worth it? In short is it worth disenfranchising citizens to prevent a few noncitizens from voting?

Presumably, in passing the federal law, these factual issues were investigated and addressed. I'm not saying they shouldn't be revisited, but there really appears to be little or no problem with noncitizens voting, and I can't imagine how such a problem could sway an election in any case. In general we should make voting as easy as possible.

There is proof of citizenship for all Americans.

Passport. Birth Certificate. There is always something.

No American has no way to prove they are a citizen. Yes it may take a few months to find the right documentation but its there.
 

head of joaquin

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There is proof of citizenship for all Americans.

Passport. Birth Certificate. There is always something.

No American has no way to prove they are a citizen. Yes it may take a few months to find the right documentation but its there.

If you're old and poor, no, it's not that simple.

REPORT: Nine People Denied Voting Rights By Voter ID Laws | ThinkProgress

But in any case, that's not the real issue; the real issue is will that requirement, for whatever reason, prevent citizens from voting, and if so is it worth it to avoid what appears to be a nonproblem -- noncitizens voting.

I don't know the answer to that, but it's the real issue. Needless to say, Arizona didn't care about that -- they just wanted to bash minorities.

But if you're asking me am I sympathetic with requirements that registration require some documentation of citizenship. Yep.
 
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James D Hill

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How do you know it is so rare when the democrats block efforts to catch it? If we had photo ID requirements for 50 years and it never happened, then you wouldn't be arguing the unknown. Refusing a measure that would allow us to catch any in-person fraud and then claiming that it doesn't exist because we cannot catch it is disingenuous and Orwellian. It is being caught--it is just incredibly difficult to do it without an ID requirement so there is no real basis to factually say to what extent it does occur.

Voter ID laws are nothing more that a attemt by the right wing to make it harder for minorities,the eldery,the young and the poor to vote. The GOP knows they have got theit butts kicked by these voters so instead of changing their far right wing BS they they to make it harder for them to vote. This backfired in Fl,OH and Penn and these swing states became blue states last fall. Poor GOP.
 
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