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SCOTUS slaps down DOMA and Prop 8. When will conservatives learn?

James D Hill

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How many more times does the SCOTUS have to slap you right wingers in the face on these social issues befor you realize you are losing the culture wars and the fact this nation wants to get out of the 1950's attitude. So what religous zealots say. Their opinion is a minority opinion anyway. Gos is not going to strike us down with fire and brimstone. If he he would have already done it so I guess he does not hate gays that muck after all. In fact he might be happy that we are not doing his job of judging each other.

The funny thing about this issues is it could have been avoided in the first place if conservatives would have gave in on civil unions and gave gay couples the same rights as hetrosezual couples but no. It seem conservatives hate pragmatic thinking as much as they do gay marriage. Gay marriage would have never came up if civil unions had been the law of the land so conservatives have only themselves to blame for this defeat. As with marijuana laws they should have seen the writing on the wall and know national opinion was not on their side anymore. Good job my conservative friends. Keep it up so we can kick you around some more.
 

Fisher

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1 state gets to have gay marriage back and 29 states get to keep their ban on gay marriage--a Pyrrhic victory for the left at most.


But But I thought for sure they were going to legalize gay marriage everywhere because "equal protection" sounds good and all the other gays told me it would happen that way--just like in the lawyer movies and stuff :baby2
 

James D Hill

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1 state gets to have gay marriage back and 29 states get to keep their ban on gay marriage--a Pyrrhic victory for the left at most.


But But I thought for sure they were going to legalize gay marriage everywhere because "equal protection" sounds good and all the other gays told me it would happen that way--just like in the lawyer movies and stuff :baby2
DOMA is gone. Prop 8 is gone. Don't downplay it my friend. Yes those rural bible belt states will still have their redneck anti gay laws but many of those states will turn blue like COL or NM and thing will change. Now 3 out of the four most populated states will have gay marriage and that trumps all those small redneck states.
 

Fisher

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DOMA is gone. Prop 8 is gone. Don't downplay it my friend. Yes those rural bible belt states will still have their redneck anti gay laws but many of those states will turn blue like COL or NM and thing will change. Now 3 out of the four most populated states will have gay marriage and that trumps all those small redneck states.
DOMA should have been killed. Let's see how the liberals are winning the war--Voting rights Act enforcement provisions are toast; Affirmative Action is on its death bed; marriage has been de-nationalized by the SCOTUS; and oh yeah, then there is Obamacare. In about a year the left will discover that Roberts didn't set Obamacare in law--his position created standing for all those rich folks who otherwise wouldn't have standing because they were not penalized to challenge the law too on other grounds when their claims become ripe. The left, my friend, is being boxed out of the Courts and they don't even realize it. Sad really. As much fun as fiesty old lesbians are to estate plan, I was looking forward to doing their divorces too :(
 

James D Hill

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DOMA should have been killed. Let's see how the liberals are winning the war--Voting rights Act enforcement provisions are toast; Affirmative Action is on its death bed; marriage has been de-nationalized by the SCOTUS; and oh yeah, then there is Obamacare. In about a year the left will discover that Roberts didn't set Obamacare in law--his position created standing for all those rich folks who otherwise wouldn't have standing because they were not penalized to challenge the law too on other grounds when their claims become ripe. The left, my friend, is being boxed out of the Courts and they don't even realize it. Sad really. As much fun as fiesty old lesbians are to estate plan, I was looking forward to doing their divorces too :(
Fisher with all due respect. We have went at it on many issues and we don't agree on most but to say liberal are not winning the cultural wars would be plain wrong and you know it. The problem with Obamacare is the fact it did not go far enough. I am for socialized healthcare and many that are against Obamacare are not conservatives but those like me that are for socialized healthcare. You know that of course so be carefull at claiming victory when your in with socialist.
 

James D Hill

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DOMA should have been killed. Let's see how the liberals are winning the war--Voting rights Act enforcement provisions are toast; Affirmative Action is on its death bed; marriage has been de-nationalized by the SCOTUS; and oh yeah, then there is Obamacare. In about a year the left will discover that Roberts didn't set Obamacare in law--his position created standing for all those rich folks who otherwise wouldn't have standing because they were not penalized to challenge the law too on other grounds when their claims become ripe. The left, my friend, is being boxed out of the Courts and they don't even realize it. Sad really. As much fun as fiesty old lesbians are to estate plan, I was looking forward to doing their divorces too :(
You are right. DOMA was BS as was prop 8. The thing of it is conservatives could have avoided all of this by going along with civil unions but they got their butts burned by their overall hatred of gays and it cost them dearly. Pragmitism is not a trait of the right in this country.
 

Glen Contrarian

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DOMA should have been killed. Let's see how the liberals are winning the war--Voting rights Act enforcement provisions are toast; Affirmative Action is on its death bed; marriage has been de-nationalized by the SCOTUS; and oh yeah, then there is Obamacare. In about a year the left will discover that Roberts didn't set Obamacare in law--his position created standing for all those rich folks who otherwise wouldn't have standing because they were not penalized to challenge the law too on other grounds when their claims become ripe. The left, my friend, is being boxed out of the Courts and they don't even realize it. Sad really. As much fun as fiesty old lesbians are to estate plan, I was looking forward to doing their divorces too :(
'sokay - let the Republicans get rid of voting rights and affirmative action. Let them rail against immigration. That's all okay!

Why? Because it's as I noted years ago in a different blog (and many have noted since), the GOP's stuck in a vicious circle of "I'm more conservative than you!" and because of that, cannot grasp when they've gone beyond the point where most of the electorate would consider voting for them. Look at the election just past, at all the gerrymandering of voting districts, all the voter restrictions the Republicans tried to pass (and can now pass, thanks to SCOTUS) - they have to, because they KNOW that America's getting browner and that most non-whites - and the great majority of young voters - don't like them...and keeping such people from voting is the only hope the Republicans have in the foreseeable future of winning the White House and the Senate. They know that the current iteration of the GOP will never again be able to gain the support of the majority of the American people...and it's only a matter of time until they either make a radical change to the left within their party, or they will split between moderates and tea partiers.

It's a sad note that even Reagan, Bush 41, and Bob Dole would be termed socialist and shunned by the GOP of today - that's how far to the right they've gone.

They went rushin' down that freeway, messed around
and got lost
They didn't care they were just dyin' to get off
And it was life in the fast lane
Life in the fast lane....
 

James D Hill

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'sokay - let the Republicans get rid of voting rights and affirmative action. Let them rail against immigration. That's all okay!

Why? Because it's as I noted years ago in a different blog (and many have noted since), the GOP's stuck in a vicious circle of "I'm more conservative than you!" and because of that, cannot grasp when they've gone beyond the point where most of the electorate would consider voting for them. Look at the election just past, at all the gerrymandering of voting districts, all the voter restrictions the Republicans tried to pass (and can now pass, thanks to SCOTUS) - they have to, because they KNOW that America's getting browner and that most non-whites - and the great majority of young voters - don't like them...and keeping such people from voting is the only hope the Republicans have in the foreseeable future of winning the White House and the Senate. They know that the current iteration of the GOP will never again be able to gain the support of the majority of the American people...and it's only a matter of time until they either make a radical change to the left within their party, or they will split between moderates and tea partiers.

It's a sad note that even Reagan, Bush 41, and Bob Dole would be termed socialist and shunned by the GOP of today - that's how far to the right they've gone.

They went rushin' down that freeway, messed around
and got lost
They didn't care they were just dyin' to get off
And it was life in the fast lane
Life in the fast lane....
I love the Eagles too. I love Prog rock like yes or Kansas. Too bad the state of Kansas is not that pregressive at all. Like I said they have brought it on them selves. They have let the wingnuts take over the party and can't see the writing on the wall when it comes to social issues. Abortion,gay right and rolling back marijuana laws have majority support and are getting more so every year. The nasty talk about people being lazy because they get foodstamps and the redneck talk about immagration reform is only making them more unelectable by the day. That is OK by me if they want to commit political suicide.
 

Fisher

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Fisher with all due respect. We have went at it on many issues and we don't agree on most but to say liberal are not winning the cultural wars would be plain wrong and you know it. The problem with Obamacare is the fact it did not go far enough. I am for socialized healthcare and many that are against Obamacare are not conservatives but those like me that are for socialized healthcare. You know that of course so be carefull at claiming victory when your in with socialist.
No you are losing the cultural war--just because Hollywood shows a lot more gays on TV doesn't mean that another gay kid won't be strung up to a fence somewhere. That the SCOTUS is systematically dismantling the blue-city stranglehold on the country should be a sign to you that things are quickly turning against you. One time here I was taunting playdrive and acted like I was going to vote against SSM if it ever came to my state on the ballot because he/she felt that my reasons for supporting SSM were the wrong reasons. The reality is it came to my state, I voted against the ban, and it passed anyway before I ever joined this site This may shock you, but I truly am a progressive--just not the way people think of as progressive. I am for state's rights. I don't think LA and NY should be able to dictate social policy to places in Wyoming. I don't think we should be enacting unfunded open-ended welfare programs today that will eat up money available two generations from now to address the same problems that will never be going away. There is a responsible way to be a good citizen, a good neighbor, and a good steward for the future. Since I think the democratic intelligentsia almost always, without exception, choose the irresponsible path in all those areas, I oppose them because I think we have 50 states and each state should be doing more when they are the closest to the problems and actually have boots on the ground and the most relevant information about the problems as they exist. I think the GOP is largely a bunch of crackpots, but at least they are honest and straight-forward about it.
 

James D Hill

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No you are losing the cultural war--just because Hollywood shows a lot more gays on TV doesn't mean that another gay kid won't be strung up to a fence somewhere. That the SCOTUS is systematically dismantling the blue-city stranglehold on the country should be a sign to you that things are quickly turning against you. One time here I was taunting playdrive and acted like I was going to vote against SSM if it ever came to my state on the ballot because he/she felt that my reasons for supporting SSM were the wrong reasons. The reality is it came to my state, I voted against the ban, and it passed anyway before I ever joined this site This may shock you, but I truly am a progressive--just not the way people think of as progressive. I am for state's rights. I don't think LA and NY should be able to dictate social policy to places in Wyoming. I don't think we should be enacting unfunded open-ended welfare programs today that will eat up money available two generations from now to address the same problems that will never be going away. There is a responsible way to be a good citizen, a good neighbor, and a good steward for the future. Since I think the democratic intelligentsia almost always, without exception, choose the irresponsible path in all those areas, I oppose them because I think we have 50 states and each state should be doing more when they are the closest to the problems and actually have boots on the ground and the most relevant information about the problems as they exist. I think the GOP is largely a bunch of crackpots, but at least they are honest and straight-forward about it.
First of all the country has swung to the left on social issues and the facts support that bigtime. As far as fiscal issues go it is not so clear.Us liberals just want this to be a fair country and a country that takes care of its own. We all know the economy is bad. We all know that good jobs are hard to come by unless you have some special skill yet conservatives act like they want to cut all saftey nets in the worce downturn since 1929. Maybe it is just me but that sounds mean and nasty to me. We have handed out trillions in corporate welfare and bailouts yet we don't want to help the poor in hard times? We give aid to just about every country in the world and we don't want to take care of our own. It makes me sick. Yes there are a few lazy people who take avantage but they are the minority. 64% of those on foodstamps work.Now if the economy was good then this anti welfare BS would be legit but right now it is just right wing meaness and down right selfishness.
 

Fisher

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First of all the country has swung to the left on social issues and the facts support that bigtime. As far as fiscal issues go it is not so clear.Us liberals just want this to be a fair country and a country that takes care of its own. We all know the economy is bad. We all know that good jobs are hard to come by unless you have some special skill yet conservatives act like they want to cut all saftey nets in the worce downturn since 1929. Maybe it is just me but that sounds mean and nasty to me. We have handed out trillions in corporate welfare and bailouts yet we don't want to help the poor in hard times? We give aid to just about every country in the world and we don't want to take care of our own. It makes me sick. Yes there are a few lazy people who take avantage but they are the minority. 64% of those on foodstamps work.Now if the economy was good then this anti welfare BS would be legit but right now it is just right wing meaness and down right selfishness.
That is because you still think Washington is the answer to all the nation's woes. Our local economy was absolutely destroyed by NAFTA and GATT. As the stock market soared under Clinton, so did our unemployment rate During most of the Bush Administration, housing was the only bright place in the world but it was and still is not open to far too many people. The economy is improving steadily now because our state has used the only thing it could--tobacco settlement money--to throw everything they can at the wall with the hope some of it sticks. States cannot afford to raise their taxes, or the sales taxes, or local governments their property taxes and sales taxes when people are already being taxed to death and getting little to nothing but headaches and mandates to show for it. Further, because something works in education in parts of Texas does not mean that it will work everywhere and Miami shouldn't be dictating education policies to Fargo. The list goes on and on and on; and in case you have not noticed, quite a few of the big businesses that support republicans also support democrats. The game is as rigged as it can be.
 

head of joaquin

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Conservatives have been on the wrong side of history on every single important movement in the US -- from women's suffrage to the civil rights movement to the union movement to the anti-war movement to the environmental movement.

They have never got one issue right. Yet there are still fools who vote for these losers.
 

CriticalThought

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I call BS on a lot of the posts in this thread. This was not a victory for a leftist social agenda. This was a victory for state's rights.
 

Drake McHugh

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How many more times does the SCOTUS have to slap you right wingers in the face on these social issues befor you realize you are losing the culture wars and the fact this nation wants to get out of the 1950's attitude. So what religous zealots say. Their opinion is a minority opinion anyway. Gos is not going to strike us down with fire and brimstone. If he he would have already done it so I guess he does not hate gays that muck after all. In fact he might be happy that we are not doing his job of judging each other.

The funny thing about this issues is it could have been avoided in the first place if conservatives would have gave in on civil unions and gave gay couples the same rights as hetrosezual couples but no. It seem conservatives hate pragmatic thinking as much as they do gay marriage. Gay marriage would have never came up if civil unions had been the law of the land so conservatives have only themselves to blame for this defeat. As with marijuana laws they should have seen the writing on the wall and know national opinion was not on their side anymore. Good job my conservative friends. Keep it up so we can kick you around some more.
Bill Clinton was an extreme rightwing extremist?
Btw,in Illinois,it was the black clergy who stopped a same sex marriage bill. Bet you won't dare criticize them.
 

tererun

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1 state gets to have gay marriage back and 29 states get to keep their ban on gay marriage--a Pyrrhic victory for the left at most.


But But I thought for sure they were going to legalize gay marriage everywhere because "equal protection" sounds good and all the other gays told me it would happen that way--just like in the lawyer movies and stuff :baby2

The lower courts made the decision that you cannot legislate people's rights away, and SCOTUS just said the people had no founding to bring the case up with them because they lost nothing. Not to mention, without DOMA states with no gay marriage have no ability to refuse to recognize other states marriages because the fed has already ruled that states have to respect the marriage contracts of other states in past rulings. It doesn't force them to perform marriages outside of their own laws, but they do have to recognize the contracts of other states and when the lawsuits come it will just run up against old precedent which DOMA sought to overturn. Finally, a large number of the benefits from marriage come from the federal government anyway. Now the federal government recognizes gay marriages from anywhere even if the states want to thumb their noses at it.

Enjoy your wrong side of history for as long as it lasts.
 

tererun

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Bill Clinton was an extreme rightwing extremist?
Btw,in Illinois,it was the black clergy who stopped a same sex marriage bill. Bet you won't dare criticize them.
Oh, so you want to turn this into a gay on black issue despite the reality black people only compose 13 percent of the population, and black clergy probably do not even make up one percent of it? Really, how could they have actually done it without white support?
 

VanceMack

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In the vast majority of states (Including California) where 'the people' have been tasked to vote, they have chosen the OPPOSITE of what the OP suggests. The people, when asked to vote yay or nay on gay marriage, continuously vote nay. It is dishonest at best and an outright lioe at least to suggest that the judicial decisions in some states or in the recent Supreme Court decision somehow represents the will of the 'people'.

In case you missed it....California's citizens voted to BAN gay marriages.
 

Drake McHugh

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Oh, so you want to turn this into a gay on black issue despite the reality black people only compose 13 percent of the population, and black clergy probably do not even make up one percent of it? Really, how could they have actually done it without white support?
Pretty simple actually. Republicans plus black Democrats opposing it. Republicans are in the minority in the Illinois legislature,alone they could not have stopped it.
 

tererun

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Pretty simple actually. Republicans plus black Democrats opposing it. Republicans are in the minority in the Illinois legislature,alone they could not have stopped it.
So you are tryintg very hard to shuffle off the blame on someone else. Seriously, take credit for your bigotry, or don't be bothered with it.
 

James D Hill

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That is because you still think Washington is the answer to all the nation's woes. Our local economy was absolutely destroyed by NAFTA and GATT. As the stock market soared under Clinton, so did our unemployment rate During most of the Bush Administration, housing was the only bright place in the world but it was and still is not open to far too many people. The economy is improving steadily now because our state has used the only thing it could--tobacco settlement money--to throw everything they can at the wall with the hope some of it sticks. States cannot afford to raise their taxes, or the sales taxes, or local governments their property taxes and sales taxes when people are already being taxed to death and getting little to nothing but headaches and mandates to show for it. Further, because something works in education in parts of Texas does not mean that it will work everywhere and Miami shouldn't be dictating education policies to Fargo. The list goes on and on and on; and in case you have not noticed, quite a few of the big businesses that support republicans also support democrats. The game is as rigged as it can be.
I don't disagree with everything you are saying Fisher. Leberal are not the evil hacks. They love this country also. They just have a diferant idea on how it should work and you are right. The system does seem rigged at times.
 

James D Hill

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Bill Clinton was an extreme rightwing extremist?
Btw,in Illinois,it was the black clergy who stopped a same sex marriage bill. Bet you won't dare criticize them.
Yes I can. Religous freaks should not discriminate against gays just because it says so in the bible. Our job is not to judge. That is Gods job. Gays are human's also and they should not be discriminated against just like anyone else and that is the bottom line. I don't give a **** what some 2000 year old holy book says. It is wrong.
 

James D Hill

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Conservatives have been on the wrong side of history on every single important movement in the US -- from women's suffrage to the civil rights movement to the union movement to the anti-war movement to the environmental movement.

They have never got one issue right. Yet there are still fools who vote for these losers.
Once something becomes the status quo conservatives cling to it unless of cource it is abortion rights. They are always against new rights no matter what.
 

James D Hill

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In the vast majority of states (Including California) where 'the people' have been tasked to vote, they have chosen the OPPOSITE of what the OP suggests. The people, when asked to vote yay or nay on gay marriage, continuously vote nay. It is dishonest at best and an outright lioe at least to suggest that the judicial decisions in some states or in the recent Supreme Court decision somehow represents the will of the 'people'.

In case you missed it....California's citizens voted to BAN gay marriages.
Who cares. Dicrimination in any form is wrong no matter how many redneck states say otherwise. The fact is most people in Cal support gay marriage now and even if they did not gay marriage is still the right thing to do. When Loning vs Virginia outlawed the ban against iner racial marriage in 1967 64% of Americans opposed it but it was still the right thing to do. Next thing is legalizing pot everywhere.
 

James D Hill

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I call BS on a lot of the posts in this thread. This was not a victory for a leftist social agenda. This was a victory for state's rights.
One victory after another by the left on social issues my friend. Gay rights,legalized marijuana and Obamacare all in one year. If that is not victories by the left then what is?
 

VanceMack

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Who cares. Dicrimination in any form is wrong no matter how many redneck states say otherwise. The fact is most people in Cal support gay marriage now and even if they did not gay marriage is still the right thing to do. When Loning vs Virginia outlawed the ban against iner racial marriage in 1967 64% of Americans opposed it but it was still the right thing to do. Next thing is legalizing pot everywhere.
So...you lied in your OP...dont really give a **** about the 'people', and as usual somehow found a way to talk about pot.
 
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