Scientists discover what’s killing the bees and it’s worse than you thought

[Threegoofs]

Are you a PhD specializing in bees as pesticides?



What are "GMO produced pesticides?"



GMOs are banned outright across the entire continent of Europe? Can you cite this?

Also, you do know that GMOs and pesticides are not the same thing, right?



Take your own advice then.

1) nope, I'm not a biologist. But I'm pretty good with scientific literature...

2) GMO produced pesticides must be referring to bt toxin, a toxin that kills corn borers. I don't know of any other GMO plants that actually produce insecticides. (via genetic modification, of course, many plants produce insecticides all on their own).

3) I don't think GMOs are banned in Europe completely, but their use there is much lower than the US. Point remains the same.

4) I know GMOs and pesticides aren't the same thing. Where would you imagine I didn't?

5) my post was in response to the knee jerk concept that GMOs have to be bad, and disappearing bees must be linked somehow.

 

[Northern Light]

Call me skeptical, but unless you are a PhD scientist who specializes in bees and pesticides, I dont think you've read the latest studies and if you have, you didnt understand them. You've read media reports of the studies, probably.

You don't know anything about me, so this would be an incorrect assumption.

I see little evidence that GMO produced pesticides are having a signficiant effect

There's plenty of evidence. The bees are collecting pollen from GMO plants which they in turn use to feed the hive. The bees die of toxicity. If it were because of the pesticides we've been spraying on crops, we would have seen these die-offs a long time ago.

GMO's are banned in Europe, and bees are declining as fast as in the US. That points against it.

GMOs are not banned in Europe. Only certain crop strains are. What's banned in Europe is keeping the public ignorant of it in product information. Bees don't know borders, so one part of Europe having GMO crops would affect all others.

Its fun to just spout off random stuff about things you dont understand, but it generally tends to be a bad idea.

All of the current evidence points to GMO crops. Yes, more investigation is needed, but you can't spin your way out of this one.

 

[Neomalthusian]

1) nope, I'm not a biologist. But I'm pretty good with scientific literature...

2) GMO produced pesticides must be referring to bt toxin, a toxin that kills corn borers. I don't know of any other GMO plants that actually produce insecticides. (via genetic modification, of course, many plants produce insecticides all on their own).

3) I don't think GMOs are banned in Europe completely, but their use there is much lower than the US. Point remains the same.

4) I know GMOs and pesticides aren't the same thing. Where would you imagine I didn't?

5) my post was in response to the knee jerk concept that GMOs have to be bad, and disappearing bees must be linked somehow.

Your post was also an appeal to expertise that you also don't have, and a reference to "the latest studies" that you did not actually cite. It's aim appeared more toward a put down than a contribution.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

 

[Threegoofs]

You don't know anything about me, so this would be an incorrect assumption.



There's plenty of evidence. The bees are collecting pollen from GMO plants which they in turn use to feed the hive. The bees die of toxicity. If it were because of the pesticides we've been spraying on crops, we would have seen these die-offs a long time ago.



GMOs are not banned in Europe. Only certain crop strains are. What's banned in Europe is keeping the public ignorant of it in product information. Bees don't know borders, so one part of Europe having GMO crops would affect all others.



All of the current evidence points to GMO crops. Yes, more investigation is needed, but you can't spin your way out of this one.

If I'm shown to be wrong, then awesome.

Please post all of this current evidence. I can't seem to find it.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

Glad we agree religion only works in fictional tales.

 

[MoSurveyor]

I've read the latest research and it's a lot more conclusive than the microscoping mite theory of several years ago. There's no doubt about it, our GMO crops that innately produce pesticide are killing the bees while the intended target has gradually built resistance to it.

This is what happens when these careless corporations continue to mess with nature and think we can get away with it, all for the sake of profit and controlling the food system. If the bees die off, we are royally screwed. Say bye bye to all the benefits of the Green Revolution.

Quit blaming GMOs and start blaming the chemicals.

 

[MoSurveyor]

All of the current evidence points to GMO crops. Yes, more investigation is needed, but you can't spin your way out of this one.

And, yet, Bt crops have been around for well over a decade without any problems. They contain the same "pesticide" as that used by organic farmers - a chemical that comes from naturally occurring soil bacteria. If you breathe dust, and we all do to some extent or another, then you breathe the same "chemical" as in Bt crops.


The chemicals have changed since "decades ago" and many have already been shown to cause human reproduction problems. And, no, that does not include Bt.

 

[Morrigi]

The only problems connecting GM crops and toxins is the "Roundup Ready" travesty; strains that are resistant to herbicides, conveniently marketed with said herbicides in Europe. These are the banned GM crops in much of that region.

Furthermore, there is absolutely no scientific basis showing that GMO crops are any more toxic than their unmodified counterparts. The vast majority of studies find no link between genetically modified organisms and increased toxicity in any way. Predictably, some are seen to have improved the health of livestock being fed with it because that's what many strains are supposed to do.

Oh, and I may not have a PhD but I happen to know biologists who do. At least one thinks the whole toxicity thing is bull**** and that we should be more worried about what happens if and when they spread into the wild. Genetically superior plants will likely outcompete other, native flora and could quickly become a danger to vulnerable species and natural ecosystems. Furthermore, natural genetic hybridization among plants is not unheard of; wild plants could acquire these modified genes in an uncontrolled manner.

 

[Threegoofs]

The only problems connecting GM crops and toxins is the "Roundup Ready" travesty; strains that are resistant to herbicides, conveniently marketed with said herbicides in Europe. These are the banned GM crops in much of that region.

Why is this a travesty?

You have a great herbicide - that basically decomposes quickly in the soil if not absorbed by plants, and a plant species designed to be resistant to it. If resistance does develop, the herbicide is not useful, and the GMO crop isnt worth much more than regular corn seed. So you need to create a new herbicide and a new GMO crop. No travesty. So far, hasnt seemed to be an issue.

 

[Morrigi]

Why is this a travesty?

You have a great herbicide - that basically decomposes quickly in the soil if not absorbed by plants, and a plant species designed to be resistant to it. If resistance does develop, the herbicide is not useful, and the GMO crop isnt worth much more than regular corn seed. So you need to create a new herbicide and a new GMO crop. No travesty. So far, hasnt seemed to be an issue.

Who was the guy who decided to market both at the same time? People, especially in Europe, seem rather paranoid about corporations these days. Advertising herbicide with new, conveniently herbicide-resistant crops means that farmers can spray more poison over the fields with less negative effects on their crops.

It was a PR nightmare waiting to happen.

 

[Threegoofs]

Who was the guy who decided to market both at the same time? People, especially in Europe, seem rather paranoid about corporations these days. Advertising herbicide with new, conveniently herbicide-resistant crops means that farmers can spray more poison over the fields with less negative effects on their crops.

It was a PR nightmare waiting to happen.

Um... It's the entire point of the GMO concept. And it ends up requiring less 'poison' since Roundup is quite effective vs other alternatives.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Every plant and animal we raise for food has been genetically modified, most by selective breeding. What's the big deal about GMO products?