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Scientific effect without the cause

ricksfolly

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Most scientific discoveries are caused by investigation of observable effects, only half of the cause/effect phenomena, and in most cases the cause has never been fully investigated, usually because the cause is under or behind a surface that cannot be seen or effectively investigated with known detection devises.

ricksfolly
 

Deuce

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Most scientific discoveries are caused by investigation of observable effects, only half of the cause/effect phenomena, and in most cases the cause has never been fully investigated, usually because the cause is under or behind a surface that cannot be seen or effectively investigated with known detection devises.

ricksfolly
And what, exactly, do you base this nonsense on?
 

ricksfolly

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Most scientific discoveries are caused by investigation of observable effects, only half of the cause/effect phenomena, and in most cases the cause has never been fully investigated, usually because the cause is under or behind a surface that cannot be seen or effectively investigated with known detection devises.

ricksfolly

And what, exactly, do you base this nonsense on? >>

Too many scientific theories are based on things that cannot be seen. It's like trying to figure out what's happening inside a house by looking through one window.

Engineers, on the other hand must know all forms of cause/effect before they can produce mechanical, electrical, and electronic products. The same house scientists have limited access to through one window has to be wide open to engineers. The roof is off, they can see it all.

The cause of earthquakes, for example, is deep down under the earth, so far reaching geologists cannot begin to understand how complex it really is, the one window they are looking through is not near enough to venture educated guesses, and new technology only adds to the mystery.

This also applies to all other effects where the cause is hidden behind a surface, biological, and physical...

ricksfolly
 

EnigmaO01

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Most scientific discoveries are caused by investigation of observable effects, only half of the cause/effect phenomena, and in most cases the cause has never been fully investigated, usually because the cause is under or behind a surface that cannot be seen or effectively investigated with known detection devises.

ricksfolly

And what, exactly, do you base this nonsense on? >>

Too many scientific theories are based on things that cannot be seen. It's like trying to figure out what's happening inside a house by looking through one window.

Engineers, on the other hand must know all forms of cause/effect before they can produce mechanical, electrical, and electronic products. The same house scientists have limited access to through one window has to be wide open to engineers. The roof is off, they can see it all.

The cause of earthquakes, for example, is deep down under the earth, so far reaching geologists cannot begin to understand how complex it really is, the one window they are looking through is not near enough to venture educated guesses, and new technology only adds to the mystery.

This also applies to all other effects where the cause is hidden behind a surface, biological, and physical...

ricksfolly
What utter nonsense. Apparently hasn't figured out the quote button either.
 

ricksfolly

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What utter nonsense. Apparently hasn't figured out the quote button either.
I don't mind your opposition, I expected it, I need it, but demeaning my intelligence, and blatantly lobbying the rest of the group for support, as your post so cleverly put it, is out of bounds.

This is the scientific and technology forum where intelligent minds debate, isn't it?

ricksfolly
 

Taylor

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Most scientific discoveries are caused by investigation of observable effects, only half of the cause/effect phenomena, and in most cases the cause has never been fully investigated, usually because the cause is under or behind a surface that cannot be seen or effectively investigated with known detection devises.

Engineers, on the other hand must know all forms of cause/effect before they can produce mechanical, electrical, and electronic products.
Science is only as exact as it needs to be (to explain observable phenomena). Engineering suffers the same "limitation" (I don't see it that way). You don't need to understand what causes gravity to build a bridge, you need only to predict its effect.
 

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Most scientific discoveries are caused by investigation of observable effects, only half of the cause/effect phenomena, and in most cases the cause has never been fully investigated, usually because the cause is under or behind a surface that cannot be seen or effectively investigated with known detection devises.

ricksfolly

And what, exactly, do you base this nonsense on? >>

Too many scientific theories are based on things that cannot be seen. It's like trying to figure out what's happening inside a house by looking through one window.

Engineers, on the other hand must know all forms of cause/effect before they can produce mechanical, electrical, and electronic products. The same house scientists have limited access to through one window has to be wide open to engineers. The roof is off, they can see it all.

The cause of earthquakes, for example, is deep down under the earth, so far reaching geologists cannot begin to understand how complex it really is, the one window they are looking through is not near enough to venture educated guesses, and new technology only adds to the mystery.

This also applies to all other effects where the cause is hidden behind a surface, biological, and physical...

ricksfolly
And tell me - how on earth does an engineer KNOW about tensile strength of a material say, without someone somewhere doing research on it - and is this not science?
 

bowerbird

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Science is only as exact as it needs to be (to explain observable phenomena). Engineering suffers the same "limitation" (I don't see it that way). You don't need to understand what causes gravity to build a bridge, you need only to predict its effect.
Which is why every so often bridges DO fall down - LOLS!!
 

ricksfolly

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Science is only as exact as it needs to be (to explain observable phenomena). Engineering suffers the same "limitation" (I don't see it that way). You don't need to understand what causes gravity to build a bridge, you need only to predict its effect.
"Only as exact as it needs to be as it needs to be" seems to be the scientist's credo, and in most cases no harm no foul, and a good living, but there other cases where accurate visible causes are vitally important: to predict earthquakes, get human health and welfare right, and realize that new technology, without clear visibility, only gets it half right.

ricksfolly
 

Deuce

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The idea that scientists don't investigate the cause is just stupid.
 

ricksfolly

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Most scientific discoveries are caused by investigation of observable effects, only half of the cause/effect phenomena, and in most cases the cause has never been fully investigated, usually because the cause is under or behind a surface that cannot be seen or effectively investigated with known detection devises. ricksfolly

The idea that scientists don't investigate the cause is just stupid.
I don't mind disagreement, I welcome it, but only if you get the facts straight.

You'll see in my above post that I did not say "scientist don't investigate the cause," I said, "It has never been FULLY investigated," because it can't be seen or accessed for the reasons I suggested...

Anyway, thanks for trying...

ricksfolly
 

Deuce

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Most scientific discoveries are caused by investigation of observable effects, only half of the cause/effect phenomena, and in most cases the cause has never been fully investigated, usually because the cause is under or behind a surface that cannot be seen or effectively investigated with known detection devises. ricksfolly



I don't mind disagreement, I welcome it, but only if you get the facts straight.

You'll see in my above post that I did not say "scientist don't investigate the cause," I said, "It has never been FULLY investigated," because it can't be seen or accessed for the reasons I suggested...

Anyway, thanks for trying...

ricksfolly
Except your past posting proves you have no idea what can actually be measured. You seem to think if it's outside the human sensory range, it can't be explored.
 

ricksfolly

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Except your past posting proves you have no idea what can actually be measured. You seem to think if it's outside the human sensory range, it can't be explored.
All one can view on indicators are temperatures, seismic moves, speed, RPM, amperage, voltage, force, pressures, vibrations, lights, directions, crts, leds scans, EEgs, emf, and as you can see, they're all poor substitutes for actual human observation.

ricksfolly
 

Deuce

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All one can view on indicators are temperatures, seismic moves, speed, RPM, amperage, voltage, force, pressures, vibrations, lights, directions, crts, leds scans, EEgs, emf, and as you can see, they're all poor substitutes for actual human observation.

ricksfolly
And literally every scientist would laugh at you if they heard you say that. Human senses are the worst way to measure things.
 

ricksfolly

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And literally every scientist would laugh at you if they heard you say that. Human senses are the worst way to measure things.
You've got to be kidding... How do you think all the information from these indicators are utilized?

...Human senses, human eyes, human intelligence, and the human experience to understand the meaning of what they are reading.

With no human senses, we are rudderless, biological blobs...

ricksfolly
 

drz-400

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You've got to be kidding... How do you think all the information from these indicators are utilized?

...Human senses, human eyes, human intelligence, and the human experience to understand the meaning of what they are reading.

With no human senses, we are rudderless, biological blobs...

ricksfolly
How would you propose we measure the current going through a wire without a voltmeter?
 

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How would you propose we measure the current going through a wire without a voltmeter?
You could always do what my older brother convinced me to do - test a 9 volt battery with my tongue. To this day I still cannot get my hair to hold a curl
 

ricksfolly

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How would you propose we measure the current going through a wire without a voltmeter?
Depends on the watts. Electricians usually stick their finger into sockets and quickly click on and off.

BTW, Human engineers with purpose, education, and experience invented the voltmeter, not scientists who live and die with their theories...

ricksfolly
 

Deuce

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You've got to be kidding... How do you think all the information from these indicators are utilized?

...Human senses, human eyes, human intelligence, and the human experience to understand the meaning of what they are reading.

With no human senses, we are rudderless, biological blobs...

ricksfolly
What the hell are you talking about? This doesn't make any sense. Our eyes work fine for seeing, but you can't measure things with any real accuracy with just your senses. Pick up a heavy book and tell me exactly what it weighs. To the tenth of an ounce. Good luck. Next, tell me how long it is, in millimeters.

Depends on the watts. Electricians usually stick their finger into sockets and quickly click on and off.

BTW, Human engineers with purpose, education, and experience invented the voltmeter, not scientists who live and die with their theories...

ricksfolly
Your goddamned fingertip is not an accurate way to measure amperage, I don't care what the **** you say.

There's so much about the universe we wouldn't understand if it weren't for tools we invented to measure it with. Einstein figured out the theory of relativity long before we were actually able to measure it.
 
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ricksfolly

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Your goddamned fingertip is not an accurate way to measure amperage, I don't care what the **** you say.
Easy, man, don't lose your cool. Where's your sense of humor?

Actually, I don't expect to understand anything, logical or otherwise, you're too deeply mired in your half real and half unreal world.

ricksfolly
 

ricksfolly

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Deuce

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Exactly the way determinism and I see cause and effect, not only as a philosophy, but in the real world.

Everything that happens has a cause. Sometimes cause is obvious, mechanical, electrical, chemical, but not when it's unaccessible, or can't be understood.

richard
We get that. What you're missing is that a lot more can be accessed and understood than you think, via indirect methods and all sorts of neat ways to measure things that go beyond the capabilities of human physiology.
 
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