Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger of No

[Phil_Osophy]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

Seems like the government interest in not allowing these weapons to enter into secure locations like airports, government buildings, etc is a pretty compelling reason, isn't it? Now what is the liberty interest at stake? Even if this does have the affect of reducing gun ownership, the government interest in my opinion seems to drastically outweigh your "freedom" to own a plastic rather than a metal gun. These "liberty" arguments are going to seem a lot less clever when someone is able to walk right through a metal detector and unload a clip.

Yeah, because a bunch of metal ammo and a metal nail will make it through a metal detector.

Law abiding citizens should be allowed to be armed wherever they pleAse, especially in buildings that they funded with tax dollars.

Give me one reason why citizens should be able to carry guns in government buildings

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

did not realize so many of the reich wingers wanted to permit undetectable weapons thereby making it again possible for terrorists to have and carry them
so much for their support of the war on terror

Do you have any idea how inane your post sounds?

1: Our laws in other countries are not in effect. If a terrorist is in another country then this law being in effect or not in the USA doesn't mean jack diddley.

2: Even if the terrorist is in this country do you really think that they are going to obey such a law? In fact do you think that ANY criminal will obey the law?

 

[MichaelJR]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

Seems like the government interest in not allowing these weapons to enter into secure locations like airports, government buildings, etc is a pretty compelling reason, isn't it? Now what is the liberty interest at stake? Even if this does have the affect of reducing gun ownership, the government interest in my opinion seems to drastically outweigh your "freedom" to own a plastic rather than a metal gun. These "liberty" arguments are going to seem a lot less clever when someone is able to walk right through a metal detector and unload a clip.

And...you just lost any firearm related discussion credibility.

Please stop using movie and rap music terminology, it sounds ridiculous.

The last time somebody 'unloaded a clip' with intent on killing multitudes of people was in Korea.

 

[MichaelJR]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

I really can't understand what people don't understand. You cannot legislate human behavior. The 3D printer just killed this entire debate, anyone can't print a plastic gun, simple as that. It's over. Any legislation from this point forward is feel-good B.S. pandering to the base. Someone who has intent to commit harm...wait for it....is probably not concerned about laws pertinent to 2A, because they plan on killing people (which is of course, illegal).

This is not rocket science. Making accessibility to these through legal FFL channels is irrelevant at this point. How's that war on drugs going? Oh...people still use them? They are illegal though. Unpossible (see what I did there?).
Legislation is the illusion of order coupled with the wishful thinking that people will obey. You antis have far too much faith in this magical protective bubble known as law. It's sort of like those 'gun free zones'. To someone intending to hurt people, this just means 'law abiding citizens who typically carry guns are not here, and there is absolutely nobody here that can stop you, so fire away, you have 23 minutes before police arrive'.

I swear these antis are high on glue.

 

[lemonlyman]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

And...you just lost any firearm related discussion credibility.

Yeah that's right, I don't own a gun, I have never seen or held a gun, so what? just because I don't know the correct terminology doesn't make my point any less valid. If you want to discredit me, stick to the issue, not the irrelevant fact that I used the incorrect gun-nut vocabulary.

 

[MichaelJR]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

Yeah that's right, I don't own a gun, I have never seen or held a gun, so what? just because I don't know the correct terminology doesn't make my point any less valid. If you want to discredit me, stick to the issue, not the irrelevant fact that I used the incorrect gun-nut vocabulary.

So, you're anti gun, yet you've never seen or held a gun. Apply that to race...and my friend you're right on the road to the schutzstaffle with that logic. Never seen one or held one, but rabidly hate them. Insert any other hot topic with the word gun...now tell me how you sound. Ignorant to said topic. No?

 

[justabubba]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

So, you're anti gun, yet you've never seen or held a gun. Apply that to race...and my friend you're right on the road to the schutzstaffle with that logic. Never seen one or held one, but rabidly hate them. Insert any other hot topic with the word gun...now tell me how you sound. Ignorant to said topic. No?

have you ever held a nuclear device; hugged one? but i suspect you have an opinion about nuclear weapons and who should be allowed to possess them
notice that your 'logic' - that one must have used something to have an opinion about it - is based in stupidity?

 

[MichaelJR]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

have you ever held a nuclear device; hugged one? but i suspect you have an opinion about nuclear weapons and who should be allowed to possess them
notice that your 'logic' - that one must have used something to have an opinion about it - is based in stupidity?

I wouldn't have an opinion on who should or shouldn't have nukes. I think all countries have an inherent right to self defense. So....?

 

[justabubba]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

I wouldn't have an opinion on who should or shouldn't have nukes. I think all countries have an inherent right to self defense. So....?

notice how you had an opinion about nuclear weapons without ever having touched one
same thing as smaller weapons
again, your 'logic' was based in profound stupidity

 

[lemonlyman]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

First of all I don't hate guns, I just think they should be much more regulated. Secondly, even if I did hate guns, this analysis is flawed. You can certainly hate something without having first hand exposure to it. I hate religious extremist suicide bombers, and I don't need to meet one and go get a cup of coffee with him to come to this conclusion. You cannot make that same claim with race, because there are no overriding qualities of a person's race that makes someone hate that person's entire race (unless you are hitler or Koni or something). I hate religious extremist suicide bombers because they all have the overriding quality of attempting to kill people who do not share their beliefs, how does this make me ignorant?

 

[MichaelJR]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

notice how you had an opinion about nuclear weapons without ever having touched one
same thing as smaller weapons
again, your 'logic' was based in profound stupidity

.....?

I have no opinion, I have no judgement, I said if you want one, own one. It's not my place to say own or don't, not my place to say who and who cannot have one. That means I have no opinion. By your logic, the only way not to have an opinion is sit here, twiddle my thumbs, and not respond. No opinion = Do what you want.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

.....?

I have no opinion, I have no judgement, I said if you want one, own one. It's not my place to say own or don't, not my place to say who and who cannot have one. That means I have no opinion. By your logic, the only way not to have an opinion is sit here, twiddle my thumbs, and not respond. No opinion = Do what you want.

wrong again
that is YOUR logic
that because someone has not fired/owned/touched a weapon they should twiddle their thumbs rather than offer opinions about said weapons
that is YOUR stupid, STUPID logic. own it

 

[Phil_Osophy]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

First of all I don't hate guns, I just think they should be much more regulated. Secondly, even if I did hate guns, this analysis is flawed. You can certainly hate something without having first hand exposure to it. I hate religious extremist suicide bombers, and I don't need to meet one and go get a cup of coffee with him to come to this conclusion. You cannot make that same claim with race, because there are no overriding qualities of a person's race that makes someone hate that person's entire race (unless you are hitler or Koni or something). I hate religious extremist suicide bombers because they all have the overriding quality of attempting to kill people who do not share their beliefs, how does this make me ignorant?

There are plenty of overriding qualities in the only race, the human race.

 

[MichaelJR]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

First of all I don't hate guns, I just think they should be much more regulated. Secondly, even if I did hate guns, this analysis is flawed. You can certainly hate something without having first hand exposure to it. I hate religious extremist suicide bombers, and I don't need to meet one and go get a cup of coffee with him to come to this conclusion. You cannot make that same claim with race, because there are no overriding qualities of a person's race that makes someone hate that person's entire race (unless you are hitler or Koni or something). I hate religious extremist suicide bombers because they all have the overriding quality of attempting to kill people who do not share their beliefs, how does this make me ignorant?

You're American. I'd take a gander to say your example with bombers does directly effect you. Do you like NSA? NDAA? TSA? DHS? bingo.


Okay, what make you think they should be more regulated? To save one life? With that logic...
why haven't we banned swimming pools, tobacco, doctors, alcohol, cars, matches, knives, ....all which are responsible for more deaths per year than firearms. Actually, doctors are statistically 297% more dangerous than firearms. This is coming from a medical student.

Is it about lives, or control?

 

[MichaelJR]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

wrong again
that is YOUR logic
that because someone has not fired/owned/touched a weapon they should twiddle their thumbs rather than offer opinions about said weapons
that is YOUR stupid, STUPID logic. own it

....stupid logic? Oh boy, justabubba...I just realized you're a cop aren't you? The bubba reference. It makes sense now, at least the anti-gun stance.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

....stupid logic? Oh boy, justabubba...I just realized you're a cop aren't you? The bubba reference. It makes sense now, at least the anti-gun stance.

weak attempt at diversion
here is your post. defend it. tell us again why those who do not play with weapons should not express opinions about them

So, you're anti gun, yet you've never seen or held a gun. Apply that to race...and my friend you're right on the road to the schutzstaffle with that logic. Never seen one or held one, but rabidly hate them. Insert any other hot topic with the word gun...now tell me how you sound. Ignorant to said topic. No?

 

[MichaelJR]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

weak attempt at diversion
here is your post. defend it. tell us again why those who do not play with weapons should not express opinions about them

Same reason why I said I don't express opinion on who should or should not own a nuke, or a jacket, or a car, or a motorcycle...it's not my place. Whether or not you own one, why should anyone tell anybody what he or she can and cannot own? How about everyone just leaves each other alone? 320,000,000 guns in this country give or take a few. Miraculously, there isn't blood in the streets. It's a disproportionate crime/violence to ownership ratio. I'd hardly say it was remotely bad enough to even lift a finger in comparison to other statistics relating to deaths....for instance, swimming pool ownership being responsible for over 30,000 deaths per year.

 

[lemonlyman]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

You're American. I'd take a gander to say your example with bombers does directly effect you. Do you like NSA? NDAA? TSA? DHS? bingo.


Okay, what make you think they should be more regulated? To save one life? With that logic...
why haven't we banned swimming pools, tobacco, doctors, alcohol, cars, matches, knives, ....all which are responsible for more deaths per year than firearms. Actually, doctors are statistically 297% more dangerous than firearms. This is coming from a medical student.

Is it about lives, or control?

Your point wasnt that I am affected by it, your point was that I have never seen/held one. Under that logic, I am of course affected by guns, as I live in the country with the highest gun ownership and gun-related crime in the world. Your argument just collapsed on your own logic, well done.

To your second point, once again your premise is faulty. Like I said I am not interested in banning guns, only regulating them. In that vein, in fact, EVERY single thing you listed above IS regulated to an extent, and that regulation always comports with the danger involved by using that product, both the danger to yourself, and to others. When it involves a danger to yourself, the government does everything it can to apprise you of the risk, but if you then choose to continue after assuming that risk, it's youre call (ie cig warnings, getting a driver's license before being allowed to drive, being 21 before you can legally drink, etc.) Regulations take a more serious turn, however, when the use of that product could cause harm not only you but a 3rd party. Guns not only fit into this latter group, it's pretty much their only purpose (not many buy a gun to commit suicide). So why can't we regulate guns again?

Finally, that statistic about doctors is obviously moronic, if you are going to make some silly comment like that, at least have the data and parameters of the study to back it up. I would argue the other side, but it's way too easy.

 

[MichaelJR]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

Your point wasnt that I am affected by it, your point was that I have never seen/held one. Under that logic, I am of course affected by guns, as I live in the country with the highest gun ownership and gun-related crime in the world. Your argument just collapsed on your own logic, well done.

To your second point, once again your premise is faulty. Like I said I am not interested in banning guns, only regulating them. In that vein, in fact, EVERY single thing you listed above IS regulated to an extent, and that regulation always comports with the danger involved by using that product, both the danger to yourself, and to others. When it involves a danger to yourself, the government does everything it can to apprise you of the risk, but if you then choose to continue after assuming that risk, it's youre call (ie cig warnings, getting a driver's license before being allowed to drive, being 21 before you can legally drink, etc.) Regulations take a more serious turn, however, when the use of that product could cause harm not only you but a 3rd party. Guns not only fit into this latter group, it's pretty much their only purpose (not many buy a gun to commit suicide). So why can't we regulate guns again?

Finally, that statistic about doctors is obviously moronic, if you are going to make some silly comment like that, at least have the data and parameters of the study to back it up. I would argue the other side, but it's way too easy.

Actually, suicide takes the lead in the 10K gun related deaths per year. So.

CDC statistic concerning deaths at the hands of doctors (be that loss in surgery, malpractice, terminal illness, questionable circumstances, this is widely published information). Again, I'm a MEDICAL STUDENT, Boston University, currently knee deep in blood disorders and their effect during invasive procedures involving obviously, anesthesia. Please don't patronize me, I'll run circles around you concerning this topic. This is one area I hold VERY strong opinions, for damn good reason. I'm in the industry, I don't watch house.

 

[lemonlyman]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

Oh I get it, so those deaths would have been less had they never gone to a doctor? Wow there's a statistic correlating people going to a doctor and people dying? I suppose the sound thing to do here is to consider any possible independent factor that might explain this, for instance that people who are not healthy are those people more likely to die, and those people who are not healthy are also those people more likely to consult a doctor. Rather than just looking at raw numbers and drawing some absurd conclusion.

 

[Torrent]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

Seems like the government interest in not allowing these weapons to enter into secure locations like airports, government buildings, etc is a pretty compelling reason, isn't it?

Its of interest to the government but not to the people. Airports government buildings etc are all places that if someone is going to brake the law and bring a weapon into having a law that says its not right for them to do so isn't going to stop them. All it will do is keep people that want to defend themselves from defending themselves.

Now what is the liberty interest at stake?Even if this does have the affect of reducing gun ownership

Answered your question. The ability to stand up to a person that is trying to attack/intimidate you is what is at stake. If you always just leave it to professionals when they aren't around your out of luck.

the government interest in my opinion seems to drastically outweigh your "freedom" to own a plastic rather than a metal gun. These "liberty" arguments are going to seem a lot less clever when someone is able to walk right through a metal detector and unload a clip.

and how will passing a law fix that? Will you stop people from downloading blueprints? They will happen regardless. We can't even stop bad guys down/uploading child pornography. Ban the 3-D Printers? There are many really good uses for them that have nothing to do with guns, some of which have great economic potential.

Yes the Liberty arguments are the point. Its Always going to be Liberty vs Security/Safety. If people have the ability to make choices some are going to make bad ones. Even Evil ones. That is not a good enough reason to ban something.

 

[Phil_Osophy]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

Actually, suicide takes the lead in the 10K gun related deaths per year. So.

CDC statistic concerning deaths at the hands of doctors (be that loss in surgery, malpractice, terminal illness, questionable circumstances, this is widely published information). Again, I'm a MEDICAL STUDENT, Boston University, currently knee deep in blood disorders and their effect during invasive procedures involving obviously, anesthesia. Please don't patronize me, I'll run circles around you concerning this topic. This is one area I hold VERY strong opinions, for damn good reason. I'm in the industry, I don't watch house.

Most people don't purchase a gun for the purpose of suicide.

 

[MichaelJR]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

Its of interest to the government but not to the people. Airports government buildings etc are all places that if someone is going to brake the law and bring a weapon into having a law that says its not right for them to do so isn't going to stop them. All it will do is keep people that want to defend themselves from defending themselves.




Answered your question. The ability to stand up to a person that is trying to attack/intimidate you is what is at stake. If you always just leave it to professionals when they aren't around your out of luck.



and how will passing a law fix that? Will you stop people from downloading blueprints? They will happen regardless. We can't even stop bad guys down/uploading child pornography. Ban the 3-D Printers? There are many really good uses for them that have nothing to do with guns, some of which have great economic potential.

Yes the Liberty arguments are the point. Its Always going to be Liberty vs Security/Safety. If people have the ability to make choices some are going to make bad ones. Even Evil ones. That is not a good enough reason to ban something.

Super valid points.

 

[Phil_Osophy]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

Oh I get it, so those deaths would have been less had they never gone to a doctor? Wow there's a statistic correlating people going to a doctor and people dying? I suppose the sound thing to do here is to consider any possible independent factor that might explain this, for instance that people who are not healthy are those people more likely to die, and those people who are not healthy are also those people more likely to consult a doctor. Rather than just looking at raw numbers and drawing some absurd conclusion.

There are close to 200,000 medical malpractice deaths a year.

 

[MichaelJR]

Re: Schumer Reveals: Next Month Ban on Undetectable Plastic Guns Expires, In Danger o

Most people don't purchase a gun for the purpose of suicide.

Couldn't agree with you more. 88,000,000 people typically purchase them for protection/fun/hunting/zombies