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Schools using finger prints to ID students

Aunt Spiker

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Instead of a photo-ID with a bar-code on it that they scan.

So this is new in my kid's school district (the article isn't for my kid's district but it's relevant).

My kid's school has shifted to this new system and sent home a partially informative letter - noting that this ID method they use is 'non-forensic' and that it isn't tied into federal or state fingerprint systems and that a student's fingerprint is plotted by points - assigned #'s - and then given a numerical code which is then connected to the child's account but it cannot be used to reverse-ID the student.

Thoughts?


I've yet to form an opinion on whether this is 1) useful for the school 2) ideal for my kid's 3) Out of line 4) Gateway to bigger issues on a social level.
 

Laila

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This is happening at schools in my city and area. Fingerprints for lunch.
Some of the schools my relatives attend has forced everyone who wishes to use the library to enter a finger print scan otherwise they are banned from taking out books :censored

What pissed me off was that they did not even have the decency to inform the parents properly or do a question and answer session to explain concerns over security.
So yeah, I and other parents hit the roof and a card alternative has been introduced for those who don't want it and a majority opted out of the system. Waste of money

I think it is a horrific idea and one designed to get kids used to giving up personal data as if it is nothing as they will be the next generation of voters. If people actually think schools will not give that data if the Government or police asked for it, delusional imo.

The use of them are disproportional and in many cases for trivial matters.
Why does a school need high tech security for finger print scans on one hand and complain about cuts on the other. Or just for dinner? Cashless system can just as easily be used with cards with photo rather than a fingerprint.
 
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jamesrage

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This is happening at schools in my city and area. Fingerprints for lunch.
Some of the schools my relatives attend has forced everyone who wishes to use the library to enter a finger print scan otherwise they are banned from taking out books :censored

What pissed me off was that they did not even have the decency to inform the parents properly or do a question and answer session to explain concerns over security.
So yeah, I and other parents hit the roof and a card alternative has been introduced for those who don't want it and a majority opted out of the system. Waste of money

I think it is a horrific idea and one designed to get kids used to giving up personal data as if it is nothing as they will be the next generation of voters. If people actually think schools will not give that data if the Government or police asked for it, delusional imo.

The use of them are disproportional and in many cases for trivial matters.
Why does a school need high tech security for finger print scans on one hand and complain about cuts on the other. Or just for dinner? Cashless system can just as easily be used with cards with photo rather than a fingerprint.
If a government can raise a generation of kids submitting personal info like fingerprints then it would not be hard to implement a mandatory fingerprint database or even a mandatory DNA database if a majority of people support such a thing.
 

Aunt Spiker

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If a government can raise a generation of kids submitting personal info like fingerprints then it would not be hard to implement a mandatory fingerprint database or even a mandatory DNA database if a majority of people support such a thing.
Yeah - that's the only quirk I have.
It's slowly making fingerprint-files and Identification, in thought-process, a more acceptable practice. . . sounds a bit paranoid but history proves that people get more relaxed as they slowly accept new measures.

The 'fingerprint overton window' if you will.
 

hallam

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I just don't seem to understand why. It seem way over the top for a school.
 
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unless if they have electronic books where these things speak the chapters and respond with answers... then yeah this is jus a waste of taxpayers money to have these things installed.... and just unnecessary
 

Aunt Spiker

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I preferred ID's - taught my kids responsibility for their belongings.
 

jamesrage

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Yeah - that's the only quirk I have.
It's slowly making fingerprint-files and Identification, in thought-process, a more acceptable practice. . . sounds a bit paranoid but history proves that people get more relaxed as they slowly accept new measures.

The 'fingerprint overton window' if you will.
Incrementation is more efficient than just suddenly changing something. Of course sometimes they will just sneak something through under the guise of public safety

The government has your baby's DNA - CNN.com

(CNN) -- When Annie Brown's daughter, Isabel, was a month old, her pediatrician asked Brown and her husband to sit down because he had some bad news to tell them: Isabel carried a gene that put her at risk for cystic fibrosis.

While grateful to have the information -- Isabel received further testing and she doesn't have the disease -- the Mankato, Minnesota, couple wondered how the doctor knew about Isabel's genes in the first place. After all, they'd never consented to genetic testing.

It's simple, the pediatrician answered: Newborn babies in the United States are routinely screened for a panel of genetic diseases. Since the testing is mandated by the government, it's often done without the parents' consent, according to Brad Therrell, director of the National Newborn Screening & Genetics Resource Center.

In many states, such as Florida, where Isabel was born, babies' DNA is stored indefinitely, according to the resource center.

Many parents don't realize their baby's DNA is being stored in a government lab, but sometimes when they find out, as the Browns did, they take action. Parents in Texas, and Minnesota have filed lawsuits, and these parents' concerns are sparking a new debate about whether it's appropriate for a baby's genetic blueprint to be in the government's possession.
 

Orion

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^ More reason to have babies at home with midwives.
 

Aunt Spiker

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^ More reason to have babies at home with midwives.
Haha - that would just lead ot an increase of birth complications turning fatal for mother and child alike.
 

digsbe

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We have technology like this at my job. The time clock has a fingerprint scanner, and you have to scan your finger to clock on. I don't see a problem with it in schools.
 

jamesrage

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We have technology like this at my job. The time clock has a fingerprint scanner, and you have to scan your finger to clock on. I don't see a problem with it in schools.
Of course you don't, this is who incrementation works. Next they will probably demand DNA or that you a child wears a GPS device.

Why do they need a child's fingerprint when they can simply scan a child's ID card at school? Surely if they got a finger print scanner then they can issue a ID card with a bar code on the back and scan that.
 

MKULTRABOY

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If a government can raise a generation of kids submitting personal info like fingerprints then it would not be hard to implement a mandatory fingerprint database or even a mandatory DNA database if a majority of people support such a thing.
A slippery slope to a science fiction dystopian society I KNEW IT!
 

Laila

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We have technology like this at my job. The time clock has a fingerprint scanner, and you have to scan your finger to clock on. I don't see a problem with it in schools.
I knew my paranoia had some basis
Next it'll be DNA and hair samples :/
 

jamesrage

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A slippery slope to a science fiction dystopian society I KNEW IT!
The thing with most people is if you give them an inch then they will try to take a mile especially the government. This is why any incrementation towards getting citizens to get chip implants and submit DNA,Finger prints, and other blatant invasions of privacy should be stopped in its tracks. Children should never be raised to accept these infringements on privacy.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news-mainstream-media/80485-gps-tracks-schoolbus-kids.html


The government has your baby's DNA - CNN.com
 
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hallam

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double post
 
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hallam

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Of course you don't, this is who incrementation works. Next they will probably demand DNA or that you a child wears a GPS device.

Why do they need a child's fingerprint when they can simply scan a child's ID card at school? Surely if they got a finger print scanner then they can issue a ID card with a bar code on the back and scan that.
Not to be the bearer of bad news, but if your child has a cell phone, they are already wearing a GPS device. All they have to do is track it. Plus, the tracking part is actually create already too as parents can do this. I am sure the rationale would be something like making sure kids are actually on campus for "insurance" , "safety", and "legal" reasons.
 

jamesrage

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Not to be the bearer of bad news, but if your child has a cell phone, they are already wearing a GPS device. All they have to do is track it. Plus, the tracking part is actually create already too as parents can do this. I am sure the rationale would be something like making sure kids are actually on campus for "insurance" , "safety", and "legal" reasons.
Did the government or school mandate that those children carry cell phones? No?
 

soccerboy22

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I preferred ID's - taught my kids responsibility for their belongings.
I am sorry this won't happen. I know kids who had school IDs in high school and so far have had at least 10 college IDs. We never learn.
 

hallam

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Did the government or school mandate that those children carry cell phones? No?
It isn't about mandating. It is about convenience. They don't have to make you care a GPS because you are already carrying one. They just have to come up with justification to track the signal.
 

digsbe

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Of course you don't, this is who incrementation works. Next they will probably demand DNA or that you a child wears a GPS device.

Why do they need a child's fingerprint when they can simply scan a child's ID card at school? Surely if they got a finger print scanner then they can issue a ID card with a bar code on the back and scan that.
Do you have anything against the scanners? Or do you just fear what you think they might do with this as a first step. The problem with bar coded IDs is that you can scan for a friend and you need to physically have the card. With a fingerprint scanner all you have to do is scan your finger, that's it. It prevents others from scanning for you, and you will always have your finger print. My job also made me take a drug test, so the pharmacy has my DNA (saliva) and my finger print. What is the harm in having a finger print on file? I think it will keep schools safer and more efficient.
 

jallman

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Instead of a photo-ID with a bar-code on it that they scan.

So this is new in my kid's school district (the article isn't for my kid's district but it's relevant).

My kid's school has shifted to this new system and sent home a partially informative letter - noting that this ID method they use is 'non-forensic' and that it isn't tied into federal or state fingerprint systems and that a student's fingerprint is plotted by points - assigned #'s - and then given a numerical code which is then connected to the child's account but it cannot be used to reverse-ID the student.

Thoughts?


I've yet to form an opinion on whether this is 1) useful for the school 2) ideal for my kid's 3) Out of line 4) Gateway to bigger issues on a social level.
That's how they do check-in at my gym, too. I don't see anything wrong with it because it doesn't actually use the fingerprint itself once all is said and done. The actual print is discarded by the system and the numeric plot is all that remains.
 
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Harry Guerrilla

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Do you have anything against the scanners? Or do you just fear what you think they might do with this as a first step. The problem with bar coded IDs is that you can scan for a friend and you need to physically have the card. With a fingerprint scanner all you have to do is scan your finger, that's it. It prevents others from scanning for you, and you will always have your finger print. My job also made me take a drug test, so the pharmacy has my DNA (saliva) and my finger print. What is the harm in having a finger print on file? I think it will keep schools safer and more efficient.
It doesn't do that.

My school instituted ID's in my sophomore or junior year.
Of course that did nothing to stop people from coming on or leaving campus, whenever they felt like it.

I could walk out the front door, in front of the office staff and no one would question me.
 

jamesrage

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Do you have anything against the scanners? Or do you just fear what you think they might do with this as a first step.
I see this as infringement on privacy and believe that this is a first step towards something else.

The problem with bar coded IDs is that you can scan for a friend and you need to physically have the card.
If they can scan the card then would the person standing there look at the file and then look at the person scanning the card and tell that student is not who she or he says she is?
With a fingerprint scanner all you have to do is scan your finger, that's it. It prevents others from scanning for you, and you will always have your finger print.My job also made me take a drug test, so the pharmacy has my DNA (saliva) and my finger print. What is the harm in having a finger print on file?
Laptop Hack – How to fool a fingerprint scanner

I think it will keep schools safer and more efficient.
No it won't.
 
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