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Schools may drop religious holidays

DeeJayH

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http://www.sptimes.com/2005/10/07/Hillsborough/Schools_may_drop_reli.shtml
Schools may drop religious holidays


Rather than add a day off around Ramadan, days off around Easter and Yom Kippur may be eliminated.




By MELANIE AVE, Times Staff Writer
Published October 7, 2005

TAMPA - There may be no day off next school year for the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur. Also on the chopping block are vacation days for the Christian faith's Good Friday and the Monday after Easter.
After considering a request to recognize a Muslim school holiday, the Hillsborough County School Board next week will discuss ending student days off on all religious holidays, whether they be Christian, Jewish or Muslim.
The only religious holiday not affected will be Christmas, which occurs during the school district's winter break.
How about them apples
right in my backyard
 

OdgenTugbyGlub

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Query: Who gives a ****?
Theres nothing wrong with this, you either give equal treatment or you don't do anything. Its not like Islam is some marginal religion, they are a large established body. Seems to me like the kids almost got more school days off, but the plan backfired.
 

JKD COBRA

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OdgenTugbyGlub said:
Query: Who gives a ****?
Theres nothing wrong with this, you either give equal treatment or you don't do anything. Its not like Islam is some marginal religion, they are a large established body. Seems to me like the kids almost got more school days off, but the plan backfired.
Yeah you have to give equal treatment, but, if I understand this correctly, what seemed to happen is that other religions requested to have a day off of school. So, instead of giving days off for every holiday in every religion, the school decided to just get rid of most of the usual holidays. So, that way, they wouldn't have to give holidays off for every single religion.

And if that is really the case, I do think there is something wrong with that.
 

Old and wise

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Hell, the kids don't learn very much in schools now. Maybe if they got rid of all holidays and made them go to school they would learn something.
 

tecoyah

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galenrox said:
Also raises the question, why don't they just acknowledge the muslim holiday? Why would they be so quick to get rid of all other religious holidays rather than acknowledge a muslim one?
If by chance, all religions requested days off for Holidays....when the hell would the kids actually BE in school. As a Pagan, I could claim virtually every moon cycle as a holiday, and about twenty five others as well (fortunately most of the christian holidays just happen to fall on the same general days as my own...what a coincidence). I have no problem with public schools deciding to abandon religious holidays, rather than add more, and take on the politics of rival faiths.
 

OdgenTugbyGlub

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Yeah you have to give equal treatment, but, if I understand this correctly, what seemed to happen is that other religions requested to have a day off of school. So, instead of giving days off for every holiday in every religion, the school decided to just get rid of most of the usual holidays. So, that way, they wouldn't have to give holidays off for every single religion.

And if that is really the case, I do think there is something wrong with that.
What, pray tell, is wrong with it? Separation of church and state right? Equal preference or no preference. I dont see the issue.
 

JKD COBRA

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Just like it was mentioned, we can't give days off for every single religion. We just cant do it. But we shouldn't get rid of the holidays that are part of our tradition.

And you are a little off base with the separation of church and state comment. I hear that phrase being used all the time. But unfortunately, the meaning of separation of church and state has been lost.

The separation of church and state means that the gov. or the state cannot build a church and say "this will be the official church of Florida" or "We declare this church the official church of the United States of America." That would be against the separation of church and state. But there is NOTHING wrong with a public school holding true to the traditions of this country. Now, you may notice that most of our traditions have some religion in them. That is perfectly ok. Because that is what this country was founded on. There is nothing wrong with mentioning God in a public school if you are honoring a tradition of this country. There would be something wrong with it if you tried to make people believe in God. A lot of people do not understand this. They think the separation of church and state means you can't mention God at all in Public schools or the gov. That is not true at all.

So for example, there is nothing wrong with saying the pledge in a public school. Because the pledge is part of our tradition. Yes, the pledge does say "One Nation under God" but that is not a violation of the separation of church and state. When you say that phrase, it does not mean you have to believe in God. All it means is that you are upholding a tradition of our country and honoring the people who sacrificed to make our country great.

So having days off for our holidays is NOT a violation of the separation of church and state. We are honoring the traditions this country was founded on. Thats all. Nothing wrong with that.
 
S

SAPPER3

JKD COBRA said:
The separation of church and state means that the gov. or the state cannot build a church and say "this will be the official church of Florida" or "We declare this church the official church of the United States of America." That would be against the separation of church and state. But there is NOTHING wrong with a public school holding true to the traditions of this country. Now, you may notice that most of our traditions have some religion in them. That is perfectly ok. Because that is what this country was founded on. There is nothing wrong with mentioning God in a public school if you are honoring a tradition of this country. There would be something wrong with it if you tried to make people believe in God. A lot of people do not understand this. They think the separation of church and state means you can't mention God at all in Public schools or the gov. That is not true at all.
QUOTE]

I agree. So many people misinterpret that statement, especially those who wish to ban any kind of religious reference in America. The holidays that we celebrate (i.e. Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving) are all holidays that have become tradition, not acceptance in the belief of God. How many kids around the country actually care about the religious implications of Christmas? They don't because it has become more of a tradition than religious practice. Both secular and religious people celebrate these holidays. Just because that's where they originated doesn't mean it means the same today.
 

OdgenTugbyGlub

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So having days off for our holidays is NOT a violation of the separation of church and state. We are honoring the traditions this country was founded on. Thats all. Nothing wrong with that.
Separation of church and state provides that the state will not officially endorse any one faith. The establishment of RELIGIOUS holidays for one religion and not for another is the endorsement of the state for the religion favored. I dont have any problem with things like Thanksgiving or Presidents Day (I do however have a problem with Constitution Day because the fact that congress felt the need to establish THAT one means that they and the state govts have failed to properly educate kids.) but i have a problem with choosing one religion's holidays over another. Its not as if Islam is a fringe religion, they are a large established community. I dont mind if you allow Christian students or Jewish students or Muslim students to miss classes on a holy day (thats what happens for most jewish kids at my HS) but making a national holiday (or even a state or county holiday) for one major religion and not another is not true to separation of church and state. Notice I say major religion because, as you say, we cannot provide for every religion that comes along, but if you give ONE of the major ones holidays, you have to give ALL the major ones holidays. Call it what you will, but unequal treatment is unequal treatment no matter the mask it wears.
 

DeeJayH

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OdgenTugbyGlub said:
Separation of church and state provides that the state will not officially endorse any one faith.
so which religion does the government endorse
seems to me the schools have had Christian and Jewish holidays
which is it?
 

tecoyah

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Fine....I am going to formerly request my school district recognize, and designate Samhain as an official holiday....so we can all take Halloween off and spend it with our kids.



Samhain marks one of the two great doorways of the Celtic year, for the Celts divided the year into two seasons: the light and the dark, at Beltane on May 1st and Samhain on November 1st. Some believe that Samhain was the more important festival, marking the beginning of a whole new cycle, just as the Celtic day began at night. For it was understood that in dark silence comes whisperings of new beginnings, the stirring of the seed below the ground. Whereas Beltane welcomes in the summer with joyous celebrations at dawn, the most magically potent time of this festival is November Eve, the night of October 31st, known today of course, as Halloween.

http://www.celticspirit.org/samhain.htm
 

OdgenTugbyGlub

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so which religion does the government endorse
seems to me the schools have had Christian and Jewish holidays
which is it?
Considering the fact that no Jewish holiday are OFFICIALLY recognized as holidays for ALL students, I would say Christianity. I don't have a problem with this as long as ALL major religions get the same treatment.

tecoyah

Sorry, but paganism isn't one of the major religions :(.
 

tecoyah

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OdgenTugbyGlub said:
tecoyah

Sorry, but paganism isn't one of the major religions :(.
And I cannot tell you how glad I am for this fact.....heh
 

JKD COBRA

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OdgenTugbyGlub said:
Notice I say major religion because, as you say, we cannot provide for every religion that comes along, but if you give ONE of the major ones holidays, you have to give ALL the major ones holidays. Call it what you will, but unequal treatment is unequal treatment no matter the mask it wears.
No, I am sorry but that is just not the case. Our country was founded with certian religious beliefs. The left hates to admit that, but it is TRUE. It is the history of our country. There is no way you can get around it. Our country was founded with Christian beliefs. The libs hate it when people say this because they don't want it to be true. They can't stand to hear that this country was founded with religious beliefs.

But the truth is, it WAS. So we have every right to continue those traditions today. And if those traditions have some Christian beliefs in them, SO BE IT. Thats the way it is, and thats how this country was made.
 
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The problem with giving only the 'major' religions days off is that people start to quibble about what counts as major and minor religions. Seems much easier to just cut out all religious holidays and simply let kids take a few days off per year.

Yes, this great country was founded on zillions of traditions, many of them involving religion. The problem is that liberals are constantly trying to lower the threshold, making us more sensitive to when these traditions ignore the rights of minorities: slavery, women’s rights, segregation, disability, homos, midgit tossing, etc. Getting rid of traditions weakens our cultural solidarity, gives us one less thing we have in common with our neighbors.

Kinda makes you wonder if 25% of the population shouldn't just suck it up and suffer, instead of aggrieving 75% of the population to ease their anxiety, don't it?
 

JKD COBRA

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Befuddled_Stoner said:
The problem with giving only the 'major' religions days off is that people start to quibble about what counts as major and minor religions. Seems much easier to just cut out all religious holidays and simply let kids take a few days off per year
I agree with the rest of your post. But not this one. We didn't just pick a 'major' religion to celebrate. This is the religion our country was founded on. So we have every right to honor these religious traditions and we do NOT have to honor other traditions. People with other religions have every right to come to this country and practice their own traditions, but. . .they can't expect us to honor their religion in the same way we honor ours.
 

DeeJayH

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OdgenTugbyGlub said:
Considering the fact that no Jewish holiday are OFFICIALLY recognized as holidays for ALL students, I would say Christianity. I don't have a problem with this as long as ALL major religions get the same treatment.

tecoyah

Sorry, but paganism isn't one of the major religions :(.
although in the original article i posted it says
Rather than add a day off around Ramadan, days off around Easter and Yom Kippur may be eliminated.
 
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