School asks 3 year olds what gender they are

[Henrin]

I correct this. they didn't do that. story got it wrong or was misinformed.

however at the age of 2 they did convince their son into thinking he was a girl.
it was pretty messed up.

Oh that, yeah, that happens from time to time with really ****ed up people.

no it doesn't. medical myth.

Really? So losing seventy-five percent of the sensitive tissue of the penis is not a harm? Losing the ability to lubricate is not a harm? Losing beneficial cells that help fight off infection and disease is not a harm? Making it impossible for the man to masturbate naturally is not a harm? Changing how the man will have sex is not a harm? The change in behavior that has been proven to exist in circumcised men that affects all areas of their life going forward is not a harm?

 

[Paleocon]

They convinced him he was a girl and is currently undergoing whatever treatment is allowed.
to many articles on this stuff.

That's what I figured. Giving hormone blockers until the kid is old enough to legally consent seems to be the "standard" procedure nowadays. (It still, of course, should be illegal)

BTW, is this a case you know of personally, or one you heard of in the news?

 

[Henrin]

That's what I figured. Giving hormone blockers until the kid is old enough to legally consent seems to be the "standard" procedure nowadays. (It still, of course, should be illegal)

Indeed. Screwing with natural growth of the child goes against everything that parental rights stands for. It of course also goes against any reasonable understanding of medical ethics as well.

 

[ludin]

That's what I figured. Giving hormone blockers until the kid is old enough to legally consent seems to be the "standard" procedure nowadays. (It still, of course, should be illegal)

BTW, is this a case you know of personally, or one you heard of in the news?

was in the news local story.

 

[soot]

At any rate, yes, they do have the capacity to answer.

No, they don't.

Most three-year-olds can't even identify their own reflection in a mirror and are only beginning to sort like objects

They are completely cognitively incapable of grasping abstract concepts like gender and gender roles.

They're only beginning to fully grasp the difference between boys and girls from a physical appearance perspective and will often mistakenly label a long-haired boy as a girl because of the prevalence of long hair among girls.

While some boys at this age might like and gravitate toward "girl things", and vice versa, there is no guarantee that such an affinity will last or that it is indicative of trans or conflicted gender roles.

A little boy might go through a phase where he'll enjoy dressing like a princess and then one day never want anything to do with princesses again.

It's the same way that a little boy will absolutely LOVE Paw Patrol and want to watch and play with nothing other than Paw Patrol for months and then one day he watches Power Rangers and the Paw Patrol stuff never gets touched again.

If you think three-year-old's can understand gender, and not just binary gender but transgenders, you need to spend a LOT more time around three-year-old's.

 

[Ben K.]

What on earth would be disturbing about asking a child their gender? Does it somehow summon Satan whenever someone says the word "gender"?

At any rate, yes, they do have the capacity to answer. Toddlerhood is actually the age where we start seeing very clear gender expression, both aesthetic and verbal, including trans individuals -- most of them know in preschool. Kids that age do have a concept of their gender and are capable of communicating it.

I'm also interested in seeing a qualifier for this statement. Gender was only defined as something distinct from sex 50 years ago in the west, so given I have no memories of toddlerhood I'd be interested to know what value I could have added to the discussion at that age.

 

[Manc Skipper]

I'm also interested in seeing a qualifier for this statement. Gender was only defined as something distinct from sex 50 years ago in the west, so given I have no memories of toddlerhood I'd be interested to know what value I could have added to the discussion at that age.

Listening to the child, and observation. See post 6.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Like I said, I have no real understanding of the issue. I presume you've studied and are qualified to make such bold statements? I'm truly interested

Edit. How would you know a Trans at such a young age?

Gender is not complicated, on an internal level. It's part of who we are. We simply know if we're a "tom boy" or a "girlie girl" or whatever. Even a toddler knows that about themselves. They don't have to understand what trans is to understand themselves.

How do we know they're trans? We don't. Some percentage of non-binary children will integrate to a binary identity as they hit puberty. Why? We don't know. Why do some kids grow out of asthma? Why do some kids go from blonde to black hair? Childhood is complicated. At a guess, I would be inclined to wonder if pubescent hormones can swing things for a child who is "borderline."

But, for those who remain non-binary, most say they knew when they were very young.

Does it matter if they change? No. There's no harm in respecting who they are right now. Such children tend to have better confidence, actually.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

No, they don't.

Most three-year-olds can't even identify their own reflection in a mirror and are only beginning to sort like objects

They are completely cognitively incapable of grasping abstract concepts like gender and gender roles.

They're only beginning to fully grasp the difference between boys and girls from a physical appearance perspective and will often mistakenly label a long-haired boy as a girl because of the prevalence of long hair among girls.

While some boys at this age might like and gravitate toward "girl things", and vice versa, there is no guarantee that such an affinity will last or that it is indicative of trans or conflicted gender roles.

A little boy might go through a phase where he'll enjoy dressing like a princess and then one day never want anything to do with princesses again.

It's the same way that a little boy will absolutely LOVE Paw Patrol and want to watch and play with nothing other than Paw Patrol for months and then one day he watches Power Rangers and the Paw Patrol stuff never gets touched again.

If you think three-year-old's can understand gender, and not just binary gender but transgenders, you need to spend a LOT more time around three-year-old's.

Actually they crossed that threshold years ago, and now are developing theory of mind.

Most toddlers can give a clear answer of their gender concept. Thus "tom boys" and "princesses," et al.

Even adults will mis-label a long-haired boy. Young children all look the same, apart from their genitals (which are generally covered) and whatever styling we force on them to make sure the entire world knows their gender.

Some kids do change over time. Child brains are complex. So what? I don't see why this is an issue.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

I'm also interested in seeing a qualifier for this statement. Gender was only defined as something distinct from sex 50 years ago in the west, so given I have no memories of toddlerhood I'd be interested to know what value I could have added to the discussion at that age.

You don't need to understand the socio-political discussion to have an internal concept of yourself. The idea of gender apart from sex is as old as humanity, regardless of whether one specific society denied its existence for a few hundred years, and children know what they are from a very young age.

 

[gunner]

Gender is not complicated, on an internal level. It's part of who we are. We simply know if we're a "tom boy" or a "girlie girl" or whatever. Even a toddler knows that about themselves. They don't have to understand what trans is to understand themselves.

How do we know they're trans? We don't. Some percentage of non-binary children will integrate to a binary identity as they hit puberty. Why? We don't know. Why do some kids grow out of asthma? Why do some kids go from blonde to black hair? Childhood is complicated. At a guess, I would be inclined to wonder if pubescent hormones can swing things for a child who is "borderline."

But, for those who remain non-binary, most say they knew when they were very young.

Does it matter if they change? No. There's no harm in respecting who they are right now. Such children tend to have better confidence, actually.

No disrespect but your reply is riddled with if, but and may be. So your earlier assertions were simple opinions, not a problem. I thought you may have studied the topic to a serious level.

 

[gunner]

I'm also interested in seeing a qualifier for this statement. Gender was only defined as something distinct from sex 50 years ago in the west, so given I have no memories of toddlerhood I'd be interested to know what value I could have added to the discussion at that age.

A very good point.

 

[Henrin]

Young boys and girls don't really look all that much the same.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

No disrespect but your reply is riddled with if, but and may be. So your earlier assertions were simple opinions, not a problem. I thought you may have studied the topic to a serious level.

Childhood development is not always predictable. Like I said, why do some children magically heal from asthma, or magically wind up with a completely different hair color than they were born with?

Pretty much all trans people knew when they were young children. Not all people who knew when they were young children remained non-binary into adulthood. There's nothing contradictory about those statements, just like there's nothing contradictory in saying not all blonde children remain blonde.

We don't know exactly why some change. Pubescent hormones are a likely suspect, since hormones are thought to be the initial cause -- it would make sense. But clearly this doesn't apply to all trans people.

Also, just because someone changes over time does not mean their original starting point was not "real," just like a child who grows up to have nearly black hair doesn't mean they couldn't also be factually blonde as a young child. It happens.

Reality is not black and white. Sorry to break it to you, but I don't know how the hell you got to adulthood without noticing.

 

[SocialD]

I agree it's too young. At that age they only know what their parents/guardians tell them. Then having someone else question it may just confuse them.

3 prob too young generally yea. I think by about 5 or 6 though its pretty solidified. personality is pretty well developed by then and I wouldn't doubt a kid will answer they are a boy or girl.

 

[spud_meister]

As someone who works with kids, including 3 and 4 year old's, they most certainly do have a strong concept of gender. By this age they will discuss who's a boy and who's a girl, they will choose to wear gender specific clothing and play with gender specific toys. They will assign roles in games based on gender. They will choose their friends based on gender. And some will show a preference for or want to be the other gender too. So asking the question before children attend school can make things easier on the kid when they attend.

 

[gunner]

As someone who works with kids, including 3 and 4 year old's, they most certainly do have a strong concept of gender. By this age they will discuss who's a boy and who's a girl, they will choose to wear gender specific clothing and play with gender specific toys. They will assign roles in games based on gender. They will choose their friends based on gender. And some will show a preference for or want to be the other gender too. So asking the question before children attend school can make things easier on the kid when they attend.

Could you envisage problems for that child if they started wearing clothing designed for the opposite sex, then switched back?

 

[gunner]

This is an informative article on the topic:https://www.healthychildren.org/Eng...nder-Non-Conforming-Transgender-Children.aspx

 

[spud_meister]

Could you envisage problems for that child if they started wearing clothing designed for the opposite sex, then switched back?

Not really, actually. If it's their choice, what's the problem?

 

[gunner]

Not really, actually. If it's their choice, what's the problem?

I suppose children are more forgiving now, but I'm sure there would be some social price to pay. I mean, I could envisage some kind of stigma for the child as they grow up.

 

[spud_meister]

I suppose children are more forgiving now, but I'm sure there would be some social price to pay. I mean, I could envisage some kind of stigma for the child as they grow up.

Eh, education helps there, but just as it's the kids choice, they have to live with the consequences too. The choices they make are far more important than sheltering them from the consequences.

 

[Higgins86]

Is there some sort of epidemic of kids that have confused genders? It seems like this story is everywhere right now but from what I gather its medically very rare?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Could you envisage problems for that child if they started wearing clothing designed for the opposite sex, then switched back?

Didn't affect this guy (I think)

 

[German guy]

You mean a 3 years old can't even tell whether it is wearing baby blue or pink nowadays?

Yeah, I fail to understand the fuss about it.

At that age, it's pretty sure that the answer will either be "boy" or "girl". That's it.

Since when is it inappropriate to ask whether a toddler is a boy or a girl?

All other options only become relevant later, if at all.

 

[German guy]

these people should be arrested for determent behavior to a child.
a 3 or 4 year old doesn't know what gender they are. they have no clue what gender is.

this insanity is out of control.

I know a couple of parents they convinced their 2 year old boy he was a girl and got a doctor to agree and turned him into a eunuch.
at the age of 2.

they should have been arrested for child abuse.

people go up in arms with people that do circumcisions which cause 0 harm but are neutral and actually approve of people
cutting their boy's penises completely off.

insanity at it's finest.

studies have shown that most kids don't know what gender they are and later on around 70-80% know what gender they are.
nothing trans about it.

My guess is that you are confusing something here.

There is a certain number of kids that are born with traits of both sexes; IIRC, it's somewhere between 1 baby out of 500-1000.

In the past, it was common practize to just cut away the (underdeveloped) male traits and make "girls" out of the babys, sometimes even without asking the parents. That turned out to be complicated, because many of these kids in fact had other male traits, including an Y chromosome, and turned out to self-identify as male later (after being raised as girls). Or vise versa.

It's well possible that the case you're describing is not actually a case of parents having the penis of a healthy boy cut away (which asfaik would be illegal in most countries), but a case of an ambigous, not clear sex being altered to match a certain identity.