Scattered Notes from the Dead Bones of the Noble Fourteen (1 Viewer)

[McTojo]

Abe has already and many times addressed the issue of Yasukuni. He said it is quite natural that a Japanese citizen visit and pay homage to the war dead who laid down their own lives for this country. As for the war criminals enshrined there, he said that they are not considered as criminals domestically in light of Japanese laws. That's why they and their bereaved families received pensions. Convicts sentenced to more than three years of imprisonment are not entitled to receive pension in Japan. The Diet revised the law by almost unanimous majority and let them receive pensions. In other words they were not considered as offenders to the domestic laws of Japan apart from the question of whether the international law leading up to the Tokyo Trial was valid or not.
At any rate the silent majority of Japanese (ordinary people) support the visit of the shrine by someone who represents this country as is often reported by opinion surveys or researches conducted nationwide. Becoming vague about Yasukuni is because he does not want Yasukuni an issue in running for the prime minister. Being seemingly positive about the shrine and yet behaving vaguely is the most realistic way for the time. Yasukuni has already made it clear that there are still tension in this region and let Japanese aware of China's harsh animosity and hatred against this country. North Korea is ready anytime to send a missile against Japan and who knows how South Korea behaves then? Anyway we seems to have to equip this country with still increased armaments in partnership (or transformational mergence) with the US.
A crew member of American B29 bombed civilian houses in Osaka and Kobe and other non military areas. The　bomber crashed and the crew member was captivated and put to a military court for committing a war crime by bombing civilian areas. But after the war ended, the judges and prosecutors who condemned the American soldier were charged as war criminals and sentenced to death. Deliver judgment as a sovereign right of the nation was a crime? It's better be called a revenge.
After the San Francisco Peace Treaty was signed in 1952, however, there arose a movement nationwide to petition for the release of war convicts then imprisoned. The Diet passed a resolution by an almost unanimous majority to call for the release and pardon of the war convicts. And the war convicts put to death were all treated as judicial martyrs, not criminals or offenders and their bereaved families were also eligible for receiving pensions. Why don't you criticize the policy that granted pensions to the war convicts as well as their families? Yasukuni just followed suit.

The term "War Criminal" was created by non-Japanese during The Tokyo War Tribunals which was a one-sided judgement from the winning country to a losing country. So even from such a fact, there is no reason why Koizumi shouldn't visit Yasukuni.
Even more so than that, Japanese culture treats all dead people as innocent, so the respectable visit to Yasukuni is no business to other countries. There were people like Takamori Saigo and others who were not forgiven to be in the Yasukuni, but that is merely a domestic mistake made in Japan, and that does not change the idea of forgiven ancestors.
Everybody has the right to pay respects to their fallen leaders no matter how evil or heinous they were. People still pay respect to Idi Amin , a man who was never tried in a court of law; a man who murdered close to a million Asians and Africans.
What kind of message are we trying to send here ? Are we saying that if a criminal court deems a man a War Criminal or a Genocidal Murderer we can't honor that person as a countryman of our nationality if we agree with his actions ? Does the judges gavel have a rubber stamp at the end of it that says " This man is Bad forever, and if you pay homage to him and the ideals he stood for then you're a criminal too"? The point is is that Japan should honor its war dead and they should be honored at Yasukuni Jinjya which stands for "Peace." Now, there are many Japanese who oppose having their loved one's buried there because of matters pertaining to Buddhism and Shintoism, and of course, the negative stigma of Class-A war criminals but keep in mind also that there are no remains in the Shrine itself of any war criminals.

Oct. 16th 1952 (with Empress)
Oct. 19th 1954 (with Empress)
Apr. 23rd 1957 (with Empress)
Apr. 8th 1959 (with Empress)
Oct. 19th 1965
Oct. 19th 1969 (with Empress)
Nov. 21st 1975 (with Empress)

Beginning with Nakasone's Yasukuni visit in 1985, PM's Miyazawa and Hashimoto visited once each in 1992 and 1996, and PM Koizumi made 5 visits from 2001, once a year. In all 15 out of 27 post-WWII PM's made visits to the Yasukuni jinja. Even without the ruling, Japan's royalty violated its constitution on 13 counts.
__________________

 

[McTojo]

Cont: Scattered Notes from the Dead Bones of the Noble Fourteen

What the Japanese pension law passed by the Diet of Japan in 1952 says that pardoned Japanese war criminals were not actually apologizing about its war past. It was lip service (Datemae), because they were defeated by the more powerful US. It is not a coincidence that the Japanese Diet never passed a resolution to apologize to its Asian neighbors. A real apology at the state level should be finalized that way in a democratic country. When Prime Minister Murayama made one of the most sincere apology to Asian victim countries in 1995, he asked the Diet of Japan to ratify it. The LDP-controlled Diet refused. Many law-makers even visited Yasukuni on the day of apology in protest of the prime minister’s apology. The same reaction was repeated by the law makers, when Koizumi made an apology at the non-allied nation summits last year. It seems pretty clear where the Japanese rightwing groups and the government controlled by them are heading toward. Who should be blamed for this mess? Of course Japanese war criminals and their sympathizers… but is the US free from the responsibility. But who pardoned war criminals and allowed them to work in the government in the first place? Who preserved the Japanese imperial system? Who is currently behind the rightwing movement (including an effort to dump article 9) in Japan?

 

[jfuh]

Abe has already and many times addressed the issue of Yasukuni. He said it is quite natural that a Japanese citizen visit and pay homage to the war dead who laid down their own lives for this country. As for the war criminals enshrined there, he said that they are not considered as criminals domestically in light of Japanese laws. That's why they and their bereaved families received pensions. Convicts sentenced to more than three years of imprisonment are not entitled to receive pension in Japan. The Diet revised the law by almost unanimous majority and let them receive pensions. In other words they were not considered as offenders to the domestic laws of Japan apart from the question of whether the international law leading up to the Tokyo Trial was valid or not.
At any rate the silent majority of Japanese (ordinary people) support the visit of the shrine by someone who represents this country as is often reported by opinion surveys or researches conducted nationwide. Becoming vague about Yasukuni is because he does not want Yasukuni an issue in running for the prime minister. Being seemingly positive about the shrine and yet behaving vaguely is the most realistic way for the time. Yasukuni has already made it clear that there are still tension in this region and let Japanese aware of China's harsh animosity and hatred against this country. North Korea is ready anytime to send a missile against Japan and who knows how South Korea behaves then? Anyway we seems to have to equip this country with still increased armaments in partnership (or transformational mergence) with the US.
A crew member of American B29 bombed civilian houses in Osaka and Kobe and other non military areas. The　bomber crashed and the crew member was captivated and put to a military court for committing a war crime by bombing civilian areas. But after the war ended, the judges and prosecutors who condemned the American soldier were charged as war criminals and sentenced to death. Deliver judgment as a sovereign right of the nation was a crime? It's better be called a revenge.
After the San Francisco Peace Treaty was signed in 1952, however, there arose a movement nationwide to petition for the release of war convicts then imprisoned. The Diet passed a resolution by an almost unanimous majority to call for the release and pardon of the war convicts. And the war convicts put to death were all treated as judicial martyrs, not criminals or offenders and their bereaved families were also eligible for receiving pensions. Why don't you criticize the policy that granted pensions to the war convicts as well as their families? Yasukuni just followed suit.

The term "War Criminal" was created by non-Japanese during The Tokyo War Tribunals which was a one-sided judgement from the winning country to a losing country. So even from such a fact, there is no reason why Koizumi shouldn't visit Yasukuni.
Even more so than that, Japanese culture treats all dead people as innocent, so the respectable visit to Yasukuni is no business to other countries. There were people like Takamori Saigo and others who were not forgiven to be in the Yasukuni, but that is merely a domestic mistake made in Japan, and that does not change the idea of forgiven ancestors.
Everybody has the right to pay respects to their fallen leaders no matter how evil or heinous they were. People still pay respect to Idi Amin , a man who was never tried in a court of law; a man who murdered close to a million Asians and Africans.
What kind of message are we trying to send here ? Are we saying that if a criminal court deems a man a War Criminal or a Genocidal Murderer we can't honor that person as a countryman of our nationality if we agree with his actions ? Does the judges gavel have a rubber stamp at the end of it that says " This man is Bad forever, and if you pay homage to him and the ideals he stood for then you're a criminal too"? The point is is that Japan should honor its war dead and they should be honored at Yasukuni Jinjya which stands for "Peace." Now, there are many Japanese who oppose having their loved one's buried there because of matters pertaining to Buddhism and Shintoism, and of course, the negative stigma of Class-A war criminals but keep in mind also that there are no remains in the Shrine itself of any war criminals.

Oct. 16th 1952 (with Empress)
Oct. 19th 1954 (with Empress)
Apr. 23rd 1957 (with Empress)
Apr. 8th 1959 (with Empress)
Oct. 19th 1965
Oct. 19th 1969 (with Empress)
Nov. 21st 1975 (with Empress)

Beginning with Nakasone's Yasukuni visit in 1985, PM's Miyazawa and Hashimoto visited once each in 1992 and 1996, and PM Koizumi made 5 visits from 2001, once a year. In all 15 out of 27 post-WWII PM's made visits to the Yasukuni jinja. Even without the ruling, Japan's royalty violated its constitution on 13 counts.

Many of Hitler's officers saw themselves as non-criminals as do a variety of Nazi's today see Hitler as a great leader that history has wrongfully blamed.
Yet with no dislike to Hitler, Imperilaist Japan systematically exterminated Chinese and Korean Nationals because imperialist Japan saw these ppls as less then human.
The biological experiments by Lt. Gen. Shiro Ishii from 1932 to 1945 in Manchuria, the complete and total genocide of the innocent and powerless civililians of Nanking, the imprisonment, torture and prostitution of a plethora of Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese women aka comfort women. Finally, unabidding by the Geneva conventions in the treatment of POW's. This is not simply that Japan lost the war the the results are dicatated by the winners. Japan started the war in the Pacific, has managed through cold war adversaries to coward away from responsibilities and prosecutions - various class A war criminals had later been prominent parlimentary leaders.

If Japan thought no shame in placing into Yasukuni the convicted war criminals why is it that thier placards were not placed into the shrine until after the US return of full sovereignty over to Japan?

If there was nothing wrong with what these men had committed, why do your educational text books white wash over the facts of Japanese Atrocities during WWII? In Germany it is by law that all citizens must know of the holocaust and the horrors of Hitler and his Nazi party. Perhaps you may advocate that Germany should erect a church in the middle of Berlin and honor his commitments to the German national?

 

[jfuh]

Re: Cont: Scattered Notes from the Dead Bones of the Noble Fourteen

What the Japanese pension law passed by the Diet of Japan in 1952 says that pardoned Japanese war criminals were not actually apologizing about its war past. It was lip service (Datemae), because they were defeated by the more powerful US. It is not a coincidence that the Japanese Diet never passed a resolution to apologize to its Asian neighbors. A real apology at the state level should be finalized that way in a democratic country. When Prime Minister Murayama made one of the most sincere apology to Asian victim countries in 1995, he asked the Diet of Japan to ratify it. The LDP-controlled Diet refused. Many law-makers even visited Yasukuni on the day of apology in protest of the prime minister’s apology. The same reaction was repeated by the law makers, when Koizumi made an apology at the non-allied nation summits last year. It seems pretty clear where the Japanese rightwing groups and the government controlled by them are heading toward. Who should be blamed for this mess? Of course Japanese war criminals and their sympathizers… but is the US free from the responsibility. But who pardoned war criminals and allowed them to work in the government in the first place? Who preserved the Japanese imperial system? Who is currently behind the rightwing movement (including an effort to dump article 9) in Japan?

Is Japan not a democratic nation? Are it's ppl not the ones in charge of the direction the nation is moving? Or has Japan become a puppet for US ambitions in the Asiatic region?

 

[McTojo]

Many of Hitler's officers saw themselves as non-criminals as do a variety of Nazi's today see Hitler as a great leader that history has wrongfully blamed.
Yet with no dislike to Hitler, Imperilaist Japan systematically exterminated Chinese and Korean Nationals because imperialist Japan saw these ppls as less then human.
The biological experiments by Lt. Gen. Shiro Ishii from 1932 to 1945 in Manchuria, the complete and total genocide of the innocent and powerless civililians of Nanking, the imprisonment, torture and prostitution of a plethora of Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese women aka comfort women. Finally, unabidding by the Geneva conventions in the treatment of POW's. This is not simply that Japan lost the war the the results are dicatated by the winners. Japan started the war in the Pacific, has managed through cold war adversaries to coward away from responsibilities and prosecutions - various class A war criminals had later been prominent parlimentary leaders.

If Japan thought no shame in placing into Yasukuni the convicted war criminals why is it that thier placards were not placed into the shrine until after the US return of full sovereignty over to Japan?

If there was nothing wrong with what these men had committed, why do your educational text books white wash over the facts of Japanese Atrocities during WWII? In Germany it is by law that all citizens must know of the holocaust and the horrors of Hitler and his Nazi party. Perhaps you may advocate that Germany should erect a church in the middle of Berlin and honor his commitments to the German national?
***************

Many of Hitler's officers saw themselves as non-criminals as do a variety of Nazi's today see Hitler as a great leader that history has wrongfully blamed.

What's criminal about saving your own country ? For Germany to have admitted to the Holocaust and to have paid billions in reparations and to have passed sweeping legislation to vigorously prosecute holocaust deniers, what has Germany gained from doing all of that for the last seventy years...? "I'm a friend of the world" status ? Was doing that worth it ? In Germany today you have record unemployment - 5% percent I believe(?). The unemployment lines are full of hard working Germans who've been out of work for upwards of up to five years because their labour market is flooded with non-Germans, a parallelism with the Germany of the 30's when Jews were monopolizing Germany for the Jew while excluding the German.

Yet with no dislike to Hitler, Imperilaist Japan systematically exterminated Chinese and Korean Nationals because imperialist Japan saw these ppls as less then human.

First of all, Japan never systematically exterminated anybody. You seem to be getting your facts mixed up with Adolph Eichmann, the architect of the holocaust, who systematically exterminated the Jews, Gypsies and Slavs. Imperialist Japan murdered an untold number of people throughout asia, but not through a systematic attempt to exterminate entire races of people. Japan was expanding its influence throughout asia for the sake of expansion not systematic murder. If you are thinking of Nanking then that was an isolated incident that lasted for a very short time - history will never judge that incident on the same level as what Hitler's Germany did to the Jews.

The biological experiments by Lt. Gen. Shiro Ishii from 1932 to 1945 in Manchuria, the complete and total genocide of the innocent and powerless civililians of Nanking, the imprisonment, torture and prostitution of a plethora of Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese women aka comfort women.

Lt. Gen. Shiro Ishii was aided and abetted by the United States and even protected by GHQ. That's why he was immune to prosecution during The Tokyo Trials. Again, there was no complete and total genocide. He did not kill all the innocent Nanking people either.

If Japan thought no shame in placing into Yasukuni the convicted war criminals why is it that thier placards were not placed into the shrine until after the US return of full sovereignty over to Japan?

It's only obvious that the occupation wouldn't have allowed that to happen. It's only obvious that they would wait for the occupation to leave first...?

About whitewashing history:

When GHQ took over the reigns of power he pursued a vigorous policy to eliminate all forms of right wing radicalism in Japan by doing away with the singing of the Kimigayo and creating a law forbading the possession of swords、 as a starter.
He also made sure that teacher taught subjects that were conducive to pacifist though and ideology by eliminating all references to Japans wartime past and aggressions.

So, now, sixty years later the Japanese are being condemned for something they know little to nothing about the war ? All you do is enrage them more !

 

[McTojo]

Re: Cont: Scattered Notes from the Dead Bones of the Noble Fourteen

Is Japan not a democratic nation? Are it's ppl not the ones in charge of the direction the nation is moving? Or has Japan become a puppet for US ambitions in the Asiatic region?

Japan is a Democratic nation on paper Jfuh...paper...paper...only! Most Japanese people have very little to no understanding of Democracy in Japan because pacifistic thought and democratic values don't mix too well.

On one hand, Democracy says that you can elect your own leaders and that you can determine the direction of your country - as you stated.

On the other hand, Japanese people are an emperor center people. They love to follow and they love to be told what to do, what to think, and how to feel. It's been like that for centuries !

How can you mix that with democratic values ...? stalemate

 

[jfuh]

Re: Cont: Scattered Notes from the Dead Bones of the Noble Fourteen

Japan is a Democratic nation on paper Jfuh...paper...paper...only! Most Japanese people have very little to no understanding of Democracy in Japan because pacifistic thought and democratic values don't mix too well.

On one hand, Democracy says that you can elect your own leaders and that you can determine the direction of your country - as you stated.

On the other hand, Japanese people are an emperor center people. They love to follow and they love to be told what to do, what to think, and how to feel. It's been like that for centuries !

How can you mix that with democratic values ...? stalemate

In otherwords Japan has become a puppet for US ambitions in the Asiatic region? Or is and has always been a puppet?
I don't buy it, I think it is simply scapegoat for responsibility by Japanese parliment.

 

[jfuh]

What's criminal about saving your own country ? For Germany to have admitted to the Holocaust and to have paid billions in reparations and to have passed sweeping legislation to vigorously prosecute holocaust deniers, what has Germany gained from doing all of that for the last seventy years...? "I'm a friend of the world" status ? Was doing that worth it ? In Germany today you have record unemployment - 5% percent I believe(?). The unemployment lines are full of hard working Germans who've been out of work for upwards of up to five years because their labour market is flooded with non-Germans, a parallelism with the Germany of the 30's when Jews were monopolizing Germany for the Jew while excluding the German.

It has gained respect and acceptance in the international community even amongst Jews. You're juxtaposing here, Germany has high unemployment because Unlike Japan Germany was split east and west during the cold war. and now West Germany has to deal with the sudden unification of thier country - many basic reconstruction and infrastruction in East German.
Germany and Japan were the agressors in WWII, the genocide of the non-Arians in Germany, Chinese, Koreans and so on by Japan had absolutely nothing to do with saving Germany or saving Japan but all to do with the fact that these powers saw others as less significant and less human then themselves.

First of all, Japan never systematically exterminated anybody. You seem to be getting your facts mixed up with Adolph Eichmann, the architect of the holocaust, who systematically exterminated the Jews, Gypsies and Slavs. Imperialist Japan murdered an untold number of people throughout asia, but not through a systematic attempt to exterminate entire races of people. Japan was expanding its influence throughout asia for the sake of expansion not systematic murder. If you are thinking of Nanking then that was an isolated incident that lasted for a very short time - history will never judge that incident on the same level as what Hitler's Germany did to the Jews.

My apologies, I often get my genocidal terms mixed up. Yes Japan did not haul ppl by the trainfull to concentration camps, they simply took care of the situation with katana swords or bayonetts on site. Nanking an isolated incident? All along the Yangtze river the Japanese committed countless acts of mass genocide, and not in China alone, Vietnam, Burma, Phillipines, Korea the list goes on. I can reference for you in a plethora of places of similar genocide by the Japanese army during that war time. BTW, how does methodology by anyway nullify the fact that these are war crimes?

Lt. Gen. Shiro Ishii was aided and abetted by the United States and even protected by GHQ. That's why he was immune to prosecution during The Tokyo Trials. Again, there was no complete and total genocide. He did not kill all the innocent Nanking people either.

Did I relate Ishii with Nanking? Nope I put him in his place with germ warfare and bio experiments in Manchuria. Aided and abetted by the US when? 1932? 1935? maybe 1945 perhaps?

It's only obvious that the occupation wouldn't have allowed that to happen. It's only obvious that they would wait for the occupation to leave first...?

That is because why?

About whitewashing history:

When GHQ took over the reigns of power he pursued a vigorous policy to eliminate all forms of right wing radicalism in Japan by doing away with the singing of the Kimigayo and creating a law forbading the possession of swords、 as a starter.
He also made sure that teacher taught subjects that were conducive to pacifist though and ideology by eliminating all references to Japans wartime past and aggressions.

So, now, sixty years later the Japanese are being condemned for something they know little to nothing about the war ? All you do is enrage them more !

Yes it's easy to cast all the blame upon foreign powers and none on yourself. Hey it's what we're doing now in the US.
Fact of the matter is, pacifist teachings have absolutely nothing to do with whitewashing history. GHQ sought to do away with Japanese imperialism that was fed by nationalism. Thus doing away with Kimigayo and possession of swords with the kikukamonsho or chrysanthemum crest aka imperial insignia.
Imperalist Japan lost the war to the allied nations and as was done with Nazi Germany - banning of the swastika; doing away with those relics was symbolic with doing away with the former regime, the whole regime change thing.
Unlike Nazi Germany Japan believed that thier emperor or tenno, was of devine origin quite literally the heavenly emperor.
Some way however you seem to be blaming Japanese ignorance that was issued by the Japanese parliments right wing fanatic LDP as something of a foreign creation. Yet white washed revisionist textbooks did not begin until after allied occupation.