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Say No! No! No! to Europe

kaya'08

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A refreshing yet old reminder about the responsibility of British politicians to keep power in Parliament and away from foreign courts.

This country is British, and its the duty of our government to keep it that way, to ensure we strictly lay out the terms to Europe about where the boundaries of integration begins, and where it ends. It does not end in Brussels, or Lisbon, or Berlin. It ends with us.

Our currency, courts and our Parliament, there ability to decide the future legal course of Britain and there ability to make decisions that affect British people are key expressions of sovereignty. This need and want to reserve this country for its people rather than foreign rulers derives from a a responsible and bi-partisan respect for our country, its unique history and its borders.

And regardless of our views on the Conservative party, we can expect to see a more responsible approach to the ever expanding European Union and there "unelected" treaties, something unfounded in the leftist Labour party.

It is becoming increasingly clear that the Marxist roots of the Miliband family is still firmly in place. The blair-brown era is not a closed chapter of New Labour. The opposition Labour is a younger continuation of its former self, its former self that insisted on dealing with Europe on an open arms bases, with or without the consent or want of the people. It is a labour that continues to ignore the deficit and the need for more cuts and more accountability. It is time we take Britain away from the self destructive left and find a common center ground under this coalition government.
 
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Gray_Fox_86

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So you see yourself British even though both your parents are Turkish?
 

Republic_Of_Public

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'Course, the sausage-sucking, mostly unelected scoundrels want ever more extortionate sums to be handed over in return for the privilege of being dominated:

EU membership to cost an extra £1bn - Telegraph

With supreme national sovereignty at an all-time minimum, extra costs for diminished returns is the ultimate kick in the teeth from the Euroswine!



.....Not that our government isn't doing what the EU wants to do themselves:

EU aid to Haiti around 1 billion euros, Ashton says | Earth Times News

Universities challenged: Further education budget reduced by £573m - Education News, Education - The Independent


With the UK foreign aid bill apparently TWICE the higher education budget, the now traditional routine of denying our own for foreign causes is supposed to be celebrated.
 

Infinite Chaos

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-- .....Not that our government isn't doing what the EU wants to do themselves:

EU aid to Haiti around 1 billion euros, Ashton says | Earth Times News

Universities challenged: Further education budget reduced by £573m - Education News, Education - The Independent


With the UK foreign aid bill apparently TWICE the higher education budget, the now traditional routine of denying our own for foreign causes is supposed to be celebrated.
The Higher Education budget has been falsely high for many years now - if you also look at what's been happening for many years you'll see that HE Institutions earn more money on research than teaching. Many students in effect "teach themselves" i.e. independent learning. The foreign aid budget is much misunderstood - it also helps to build up industry in the 3rd world and prevent greater influx of migrants. It also helps train up some of the skilled foreign workers who benefiot our industry. To some, it's money given away cheaply - to others, it brings back far greater long term benefits to this country that papers like the Daily Mail always fail or refuse to understand.

--A refreshing yet old reminder about the responsibility of British politicians to keep power in Parliament and away from foreign courts
--snip--

And regardless of our views on the Conservative party, we can expect to see a more responsible approach to the ever expanding European Union and there "unelected" treaties, something unfounded in the leftist Labour party.

--snip--
In the interests of truth and balance, we have to remember that it was a Conservative Party that took us into Europe signing a document that apparently clearly showed where the whole shebang was headed, it was Thatcher who signed Maastricht and it was John Major's Govt that tried to follow the ERM as a precursor to joining the Euro - leading up to Black Wednesday
 

Republic_Of_Public

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The Higher Education budget has been falsely high for many years now - if you also look at what's been happening for many years you'll see that HE Institutions earn more money on research than teaching.
I suppose you'd rather extra cuts bump up the foreign aid bill. After all, investment in the nation's young isn't as important as quick-fix coolie labour!



...it also helps to build up industry in the 3rd world and prevent greater influx of migrants.
It's up to Third World governments to build up industry with loans. (It's not up to us to mollycoddle the world because other governments are too corrupt or stupid.) God alone knows they've had enough opportunity over the years. But still, laughably quaint tribal wars, palaces with countless opulent rooms, unfeasibly huge daily banquets and luxury jets don't just pay for themselves.

And what are we doing giving money to India, a country with its own space and nuclear programmes?

And on top of all that it's up to OUR government to control immigration to keep the numbers down. It's madness to expect other nations to do it, nations who'd have no interest in not getting rid of their ballast.



Open-Door Immigration - good for whose economy?

Unchecked immigration is putting Britons out of work - Telegraph

Immigrant influx from Eastern Europe is driving down wages, Bank expert warns | Mail Online


Far too many, often said:


The arrival of immigrants from Eastern Europe has forced down the wages of British workers, a Bank of England expert says.

Professor David Blanchflower said the average pay rise given to a UK worker had reduced significantly as a direct result of EU expansion.

Workers have an increased 'fear' of unemployment - which allows bosses to drive a harder bargain.


The Social Affairs Unit - Mass Immigration depresses wages

The BRITISH JOBS FOR FOREIGN WORKERS casefiles... Unsorted and unfeasibly HUGE!!


TELEGRAPH: 70% of new jobs taken by those born overseas!

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/68170-british-jobs-foreign-workers-anti-racist-britain-3.html


BLAME GREEDY BOSSES and NOT the foreign workers, say Socialist Worker Lefties
 
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kaya'08

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Unskilled immigration and the rising costs of the European Union are all issues which need to be addressed and resolved. The British government also needs to create plans for better "strategic" foreign aid, to prevent its misuse by third world governments (especially in Ethiopia where we are seeing claims of government withholding aid to voters of the opposition parties).
 

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Still, we're in the bleeding thing now. So let's combine the world of women with the world one of the EU's recent annexations, giving us an educational combination of two of my interests.


BE A GOOD EUROPEAN AND PRO-WOMAN ANTI-CHAUVINIST BY GETTING YOUR BRAIN AROUND THESE MATEY:


DRUNKEN POLISH EMBASSY WOMAN: http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/oc...Embassy-Chanakyapuri-Drunken-Polish-woman.htm

POLISH WOMAN USED AS HORSE: http://www.aysor.am/en/news/2010/05/25/poland-wife/

HOW TO TREAT A POLISH WOMAN: http://www.polishmarriage.org/Stories/polish-woman-date.html

POLISH WOMAN DIES WHEN DOCTORS REFUSE TREATMENT: http://womensrights.change.org/blog...ctors_refuse_treatment_fearing_for_fetal_life


CLASSIC NEWS:
POLISH WOMAN WAKES UP IN MORGUE: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5533991/Polish-woman-wakes-up-in-morgue.html


I suppose the humourless sauerkrauts and uppity seiesta merchants of the EC, or Council of Minsters, thought having my people about might make things a bit interesting. And given they seem to have grasped the concept of having rules of the road only recently, I suppose there's a lot for our new rulers to domineer over in Eastern Europe!
 
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Infinite Chaos

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I suppose you'd rather extra cuts bump up the foreign aid bill. After all, investment in the nation's young isn't as important as quick-fix coolie labour!
If you were serious about investment in the nation's young, there's better ways to do it i.e return to full universal grants. You're also ignoring (yet again) that cheap labour is already coming in unchecked from the EU. I don't know how many times you've been told - doesn't suit your agenda I suppose.

Are you going to say the foreign aid budget goes to Europe?

-- It's up to Third World governments to build up industry with loans. (It's not up to us to mollycoddle the world because other governments are too corrupt or stupid.) God alone knows they've had enough opportunity over the years. But still, laughably quaint tribal wars, palaces with countless opulent rooms, unfeasibly huge daily banquets and luxury jets don't just pay for themselves.
Please find any example in the last 25 years where foreign aid donations have ended up as paying for the lavish lifestyle you're trying to paint. Sweden showed the way to other donor countries 40 years ago by tying aid to results or going through NGO's - your accusation is 40 years or so out of date. Nobody gives money over to Presidents or central govts anymore

And what are we doing giving money to India, a country with its own space and nuclear programmes?
Educate yourself - from one of the businessmen going there - ""This is a place," says one British businessman, "that we cannot afford not to be in. It's not optional, it's do or die."

And it is not just British business entering the Indian market either.

Indian companies are investing enormous sums of money in the UK. This is a relationship in transition, with India becoming a more powerful partner.

All of which begs a question: why is Britain giving so much development aid to a country with such a rapidly growing economy and almost infinite potential?

"It's a good question," says Susannah Moorehead, the head of Dfid in India.

"It's because the British government along with many other signatories is committed to achieving the [UN] Millennium Development Goals. And we won't achieve that unless we do it here in India."


Are these migrants from outside the EU or within?
 
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Infinite Chaos

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-- The British government also needs to create plans for better "strategic" foreign aid, to prevent its misuse by third world governments (especially in Ethiopia where we are seeing claims of government withholding aid to voters of the opposition parties).
The only story I see is of the International (mostly US) earthquake aid misused by Pakistan's Zadari - have you got a link to a story of British Foreign Aid misused in Ethiopia please?
 

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The only story I see is of the International (mostly US) earthquake aid misused by Pakistan's Zadari

And let's not forget the fact that despite our being one of the biggest aid donors to the Sudan, it didn't save Gillian Gibbons from the threat of decapitation!

Gillian Gibbons at risk of more serious charges after letting her class of 7-year-olds name a teddy bear Muhammad





Repulsive. At least if we're giving aid to any old Tom, Dick or Ahmed, at least we can threaten to take it away again if they don't stop acting like savages towards people who only want to help them!

Thousands of Islamic fanatics wielding knives demand jailed teddy bear teacher is executed | News



Not a squeak from our Muslims in defence of the woman though. Wonder why....?

British Muslims should protest teddy lunacy - Telegraph
 

Republic_Of_Public

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If you were serious about investment in the nation's young, there's better ways to do it i.e return to full universal grants.
Indeed, though I'd use the world alternate. Even Labour started to concede (when forced) that apprenticeships and other trade training is also vital if we're still to stand on our feet as a nation.



You're also ignoring (yet again) that cheap labour is already coming in unchecked from the EU.
The links of mine you reproduced proved that's a lie for a start.



Please find any example in the last 25 years where foreign aid donations have ended up as paying for the lavish lifestyle you're trying to paint.
Africa on the top of the world's despot list

HUGE backlist to wade through!


We give aid to Africa, do we not? For example, Eithiopians famously starve as its government infamously fights wars and feathers its own luxurious nest. It's also been known for troops to stop aid from reaching citizens, especially in places like Zimbabwe.

BBC News - Ethiopia used aid to bribe voters - Human Rights Watch



You laugh, then double-take, then laugh again at the naiive stupidity of Labourites: Blair calls on African dictatorships to back him over atrocity trials!


Good work when you can get it, eh Bono?

Bono discusses African despots, including Zenawi


Recognise parts of this place as the Third World too, do they: BBC NEWS | Africa | Despot planned 'Save Britain Fund'




"This is a place," says one British businessman, "that we cannot afford not to be in. It's not optional, it's do or die."
Well invest their money then, NOT the taxpayers' - especially if only to serve the interests of people whose only loyalty is to the expansion of their pockets. If the Indians want to go to the moon or hold nukies, have private capital pay.

Educate yourself.



I thought the boneheaded Left told us they were impoverished: Indian space budget up by 58%!

Isn't that lovely! They've got enough ready money to pay for themselves now, eh Dave and Nick?! And the British people again come last because at the same time as 500,000 state sector jobs are to be axed, aid to places like India continues to increase.



Are these migrants from outside the EU or within?
Immaterial when too many of anybody has a negative effect.
 
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Republic_Of_Public

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...And as well as giving 'valuable' aid to Saudi Arabia in whatever form (for which they are obviously grateful), Singapore is also eligible for a slice of Britain's worn-out cake:

Did Britain really need to give millions to the wealthy state of Singapore? - Telegraph


Yeah, 'course foreign aid is so quote-unquote misunderstood! People actually understand all too well! We rub their backs, eh?!




__________________________

Saudis!
Just love the cheek of those barbarians, as well as the lunacy of the kind of leftards who also allow CUBA to lecture them on such issues too!

Saudi Arabia pontificates to EU about human rights!

Just a huge orgy for hypocritical Third World tinpots to think they're worth anything, with FULL liberal-left patronage: Cuba wins broad support by UN Human Rights Council!


THAT'S what our money goes on, so stuff the kids and old folk on the breadline!
 
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Infinite Chaos

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And let's not forget the fact that despite our being one of the biggest aid donors to the Sudan, it didn't save Gillian Gibbons from the threat of decapitation!

Gillian Gibbons at risk of more serious charges after letting her class of 7-year-olds name a teddy bear Muhammad





Repulsive. At least if we're giving aid to any old Tom, Dick or Ahmed, at least we can threaten to take it away again if they don't stop acting like savages towards people who only want to help them!

Thousands of Islamic fanatics wielding knives demand jailed teddy bear teacher is executed | News



Not a squeak from our Muslims in defence of the woman though. Wonder why....?

British Muslims should protest teddy lunacy - Telegraph
Thread derail...

Cheers Kaya, I'm aware of those stories - particularly by HRW - who "Even Human Rights Watch admits that the Ethiopians are making a positive impact on poverty. "

So yes the Eithiopian Govt has played "God" with Aid - it has actually been getting results. It does seem however that some Govts have started to give directly to African Governments - this is a change since my time working as an aid worker when NGO's channeled money.

There are politics within Aid Organisations too - HRW already has an agenda of returning aid payments to NGOs. Good or Bad - donor countries apparently "sometimes quite like dealing with authoritarian administrations which get results."

This isn't quite the picture that RoP tried falsely to paint that UK aid money is going to pay for lavish presidential palaces yet..
 

Infinite Chaos

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-- The links of mine you reproduced proved that's a lie for a start.
Not good enough.

-- Africa on the top of the world's despot list

HUGE backlist to wade through!


We give aid to Africa, do we not? For example, Eithiopians famously starve as its government infamously fights wars and feathers its own luxurious nest. It's also been known for troops to stop aid from reaching citizens, especially in places like Zimbabwe.
Please read what I asked. Mugabe, Qadaffi etc are not there through UK aid, they did not build their palaces on UK aid. Not good enough - try again please.

See my response to Kaya.






-- Well invest their money then, NOT the taxpayers' - especially if only to serve the interests of people whose only loyalty is to the expansion of their pockets. If the Indians want to go to the moon or hold nukies, have private capital pay.

Educate yourself.



I thought the boneheaded Left told us they were impoverished: Indian space budget up by 58%!

Isn't that lovely! They've got enough ready money to pay for themselves now, eh Dave and Nick?! And the British people again come last because at the same time as 500,000 state sector jobs are to be axed, aid to places like India continues to increase.
I'd broaden my economics sources if I were you. Any money made by British business aids our economy, things don't tend to stay in neat little pockets - especially in a global economy.

-- Immaterial when too many of anybody has a negative effect.
That's a nice way of admitting that the immigrants that "flood" into the UK are from Europe and not the 3rd World.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Thread derail...
If I thought you believed that for a moment I'd cry my eyes out. The Sudanese abused our aid by persecuting one of our aid workers.



It does seem however that some Govts have started to give directly to African Governments
Yep, that should sort the problem - giving money to corrupt governments rather than giving it direct to the people in the form of well building equipment or hospital goods.



Not good enough.
Tough. I linked to a report on the effects of EU immigration before you claimed I didn't mention it. Other than lying, I don't know how to appease you.




Mugabe, Qadaffi etc are not there through UK aid, they did not build their palaces on UK aid.
They receive aid though don't they. And if they have money for palaces and the good life, they have money for their dirt poor.



Not good enough - try again please.
Oooo, not good enough! I'll sob myself to sleep tonight!



Any money made by British business aids our economy.
And India's too no doubt. As I say, let their money fund India's out of date space race and not taxpayers'.



That's a nice way of admitting that the immigrants that "flood" into the UK are from Europe and not the 3rd World.
Europe and the Third World.

Rise in immigration adds 200,000 to British population | News
 
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Infinite Chaos

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If I thought you believed that for a moment I'd cry my eyes out. The Sudanese abused our aid by persecuting one of our aid workers.
The thread is about Europe. Do you want a handkerchief?

I do however enjoy the irony of you getting upset about treatment of aid workers on one hand and then complaining that they're silly enough to place themselves in harms way. However to reply your thread derail, having actually worked as an aid worker (and pretty close to the Sudan border) I can tell you that we volunteered for such jobs. We were always fully briefed on the risks and to be aware of local culture.

What was done to Gillian Gibbons wasn't clever however she was in another country and wasn't quite aware of the risks of some of her actions. I saw it myself working among christians and muslims - I spent 3 years and the first month was orientation - the dos and don'ts. You know - the kind of thing you like to complain about when muslims don't show awareness or willingness to integrate when they come here?

Now: please tell me your qualifications to comment on Gillian Gibbons in Sudan?

Yep, that should sort the problem - giving money to corrupt governments rather than giving it direct to the people in the form of well building equipment or hospital goods.
You obviously didn't read your own Human Rights Watch link did you? Neither have you actually addressed what I asked - please show me where the money has ended up as palatial improvements and lavish lifestyle?

I don't expect an honest reply - just more dancing round fictional mulberry bushes.

Tough. I linked to a report on the effects of EU immigration before you claimed I didn't mention it. Other than lying, I don't know how to appease you.
So why try to link that to donor aid? I asked you to clarify whether the foreign aid budget goes to Europe or not.

They receive aid though don't they. And if they have money for palaces and the good life, they have money for their dirt poor.
How do you expect the money that corrupt govts have be spent on those they refuse to anyhow? I'll use of of the wrong examples you posted - Mugabe for a start. Tribal politics means that he won't spend money on other tribes let alone his own tribe now - so you suggest we just abandon these people?

Just to help me understand - you come from Polish descent - do the Poles have any kind of history of charitable behavior / understanding of other peoples plight? Maybe for all my explanation - bodies like VSO, Amnesty International, Oxfam etc will forever be outside your comprehension.

Oooo, not good enough! I'll sob myself to sleep tonight!
it's so much easier to simply admit your examples were wrong. (As usual)

And India's too no doubt. As I say, let their money fund India's out of date space race and not taxpayers'.
Typical BNP thinking - your own links show that the money given goes to powerless women's groups and the extreme poor - yet you falsely pretend UK taxpayer's cash is going to fund the Indian space agency.


Mostly Europe - and quite a lot of Poles...

Anyhow - two examples from your link

  • One area of growth is student visas - quite probably Chinese students who also pay full university fees for the university courses you pretend to support. Do you know how many Universities lifeblood comes from the extra cash a Chinese student brings in? Each UK student brings approx £6-7000 in HEFCE money per year while each Chinese student pays £18-20,000 per year. Many UK students are subsidised by Chinese students.
  • The other area of growth is people coming to live with partners - OK, let's ban them...but Oh wait - I've read you pretending to support our Ghurka troops. They get married don't they, and they wish to settle here after putting their lives on the line for us. Do you thus propose to stop their wives and children coming to live with them? What's the BNP view on that Mr Public?
 

Republic_Of_Public

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What was done to Gillian Gibbons wasn't clever however she was in another country and wasn't quite aware of the risks of some of her actions.
Yes, it was very naughty. Cheeky, in fact. The little ragamuffins, they mean no real harm!

But as you say, she was in someone else's country and as such she got what was coming to her. (Though we can't extend that thinking to Muslims living in Britain, because that's BNP Racist, but it's interesting to see you rationalise barbaric Sharia law so blatantly.)




I spent 3 years and the first month was orientation - the dos and don'ts. You know - the kind of thing you like to complain about when muslims don't show awareness or willingness to integrate when they come here?
We don't throw foreigners in jail for giving teddy bears the 'wrong' name! Risks? Just living seems a risk and a half over there.

And for a desperate needy who ache for a little of what's in Santa's sack, some people seem to impose a great many conditions. (As a boy, for just a touch of that kind of spoilt-brat behaviour, I'd get at least a heavy shouting-at from my dad!)


Plus, as I said, the Sudanese abused British aid. Hence the mention.



So why try to link that to donor aid?
Because those places are where it goes.



...please show me where the money has ended up as palatial improvements and lavish lifestyle?
The dictators and brigunds aren't going to publish that sort of damning information now, are they? But it's still pretty stinky to see no-strings foreign aid cash go in one end of the system and see gold-rimmed jets and elephant-size dinners coming out the other!

The money either funds it or 'frees up' other cash with which to do it. (That is, if the gits don't keep the lot!)



Tribal politics means that he won't spend money on other tribes let alone his own tribe now - so you suggest we just abandon these people?
I'm not saying abandon. The crushes you see in pretty much every charity shop in the land shows where our feelings lie. But when people are told to mandatorily fund god-knows-who through taxes, before seeing Baldrick telling the televised world to wipe out the debt of Third World dictatorships, we move into quite another area entirely.

Maybe we can just make the deposition of the tyrannical buggers a condition for aid! Giving money straight to 'em is useless and trying to aid the people directly results in violent interference.



it's so much easier to simply admit your examples were wrong. (As usual)
As I've said before, coming to terms on your level means lying!


Typical BNP thinking - your own links show that the money given goes to powerless women's groups and the extreme poor - yet you falsely pretend UK taxpayer's cash is going to fund the Indian space agency.
Ooo, BNP, ooo lies! A huge amount of aid money is distributed to Indian causes by our Government, the actual recipients being immaterial. Again, unless there are secret backhanders and deals going on, it seems a question of our Government chucking money like confetti without any clauses attached.

Especially in a recession, being awarded British taxpayers' money should be thought of as a humbling favour. With the Indian Government shamming impoverishment to get at it whilst diverting their own peoples' money into cooky projects, they prove to slap the nation across the face with every weasel plea of poverty!
 
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Infinite Chaos

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-- snip --But as you say, she was in someone else's country and as such she got what was coming to her. (Though we can't extend that thinking to Muslims living in Britain, because that's BNP Racist, but it's interesting to see you rationalise barbaric Sharia law so blatantly.
  • First - find where I said she "got what was coming to her." Or words precisely to that effect.
  • Second - find anywhere I have said Muslims coming here should not try to integrate or become "oriented" or words to that effect.
  • Third - find where I have rationalised Sharia Law used against a non muslim.

With regard to Sharia Law in the UK - whenever anyone has complained about Muslims seeking to apply it to their own people in the UK, I have asked why not complain about Beth Din which has been around as a second cultural law for certain citizens only for much longer.

-- snip --And for a desperate needy who ache for a little of what's in Santa's sack, some people seem to impose a great many conditions. (As a boy, for just a touch of that kind of spoilt-brat behaviour, I'd get at least a heavy shouting-at from my dad!)


Plus, as I said, the Sudanese abused British aid. Hence the mention
And yet again, even if you take the religious layer off, there's a tribal layer that stops a govt in Africa investing for all it's citizens and those in power do not necessarily have the same constrictions that those in power here do. A lot of the aid in Sudan is for the oppressed Christians and Animists - the Muslims do not see them as human often and so unworthy of financial aid.

-- snip --Because those places are where it goes.
I have replied many times before that you have no understanding of how the Aid or development budget works, you probably have zero interest either in actually learning as it would undermine your agenda.

-- snip -- The dictators and brigunds aren't going to publish that sort of damning information now, are they? But it's still pretty stinky to see no-strings foreign aid cash go in one end of the system and see gold-rimmed jets and elephant-size dinners coming out the other!
If that were true, I'd agree. All you have so far is baseless speculation and personal opinion that it does. I've explained that aid usually has strings and even in Ethiopia HRW has acknowledged that poverty is being alleviated by donor cash.

-- snip --The money either funds it or 'frees up' other cash with which to do it. (That is, if the gits don't keep the lot!)
No proof so this is mere speculation or baseless personal opinion yet again.

-- snip --I'm not saying abandon. The crushes you see in pretty much every charity shop in the land shows where our feelings lie. But when people are told to mandatorily fund god-knows-who through taxes, before seeing Baldrick telling the televised world to wipe out the debt of Third World dictatorships, we move into quite another area entirely.
Have previously explained and shown in your own links where the lie you believe is.

-- snip --Maybe we can just make the deposition of the tyrannical buggers a condition for aid! Giving money straight to 'em is useless and trying to aid the people directly results in violent interference.
First no responsible person would make a demand that the unarmed and weakest citizens take on a local army. Your own links explained that aid to India went to low caste women's groups and orphaned children. It's pathetic to joke these very people should overthrow their govt.

Second direct aid is usually to NGOs and local groups. It's rare cases where aid money is given to a Govt directly.

-- snip --As I've said before, coming to terms on your level means lying!
You've shown that the lying is with yourself in your posts regarding how aid is used and your theory it's all abused. I asked you why you tried to tie 3rd World aid to EU immigrant numbers and instead, you try to say your links explained this.

-- snip -- Ooo, BNP, ooo lies!
You show absolutely similar thinking on many issues. Anyhow - there's no shame for you admitting your persuasion.

-- snip -- A huge amount of aid money is distributed to Indian causes by our Government, the actual recipients being immaterial. Again, unless there are secret backhanders and deals going on, it seems a question of our Government chucking money like confetti without any clauses attached.
And yet again, baseless speculation fueled by hate and ignorance. Aid goes to a variety of end organisations. I worked for one many years ago. Other agencies employ very expensive expatriate Brits to run and install resources while in other countries the local Govt is best placed to distribute the money. It's these cases (like Ethiopia and Sudan) where local tribal or religious politics has come into play.

By your thinking - all aid money goes specifically to India for their space race with Pakistan or to Sudan and Ethiopia.

-- snip --Especially in a recession, being awarded British taxpayers' money should be thought of as a humbling favour. With the Indian Government shamming impoverishment to get at it whilst diverting their own peoples' money into cooky projects, they prove to slap the nation across the face with every weasel plea of poverty!
Cooky projects including kids being put into employment as child labour and women's groups in low caste rural areas with zero industry. :roll:
 

Republic_Of_Public

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First - find where I said she "got what was coming to her." Or words precisely to that effect.
Second - find anywhere I have said Muslims coming here should not try to integrate or become "oriented" or words to that effect.
Third - find where I have rationalised Sharia Law used against a non muslim.

First - ...she was in another country and wasn't quite aware of the risks of some of her actions.

Naming a teddy Muhammad is a 'risk'? That puts the blame on her! Sounds very much like 'got what was coming' to me. After all, did you get told about teddies?


On the second point, you appear to be saying that Gillian Gibbons should have known the customs in someone else's country, whilst also seeming to reckon that the likes certain pushy Muslims should be allowed to hold the axe of Damocles over our heads - for having an 'incompatible' culture.

And they do: The Amboy Times: The List of Things That Offend Muslims

You've never, as I can recall, criticised Islamic groups with links to terrorism or even 'mere' extremism: http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...away-damning-government-research-paper-3.html



And thirdly, again, What was done to Gillian Gibbons wasn't clever however she was in another country and wasn't quite aware of the risks of some of her actions.


Not wicked, barbaric, backward or brutal. Just 'wasn't clever'.

Sharia rules in the Sudan. And as for Beth Din, huge numbers of Jews don't want it imposed regardless of its clash with the native culture.

Survey: 61 percent of British Muslims want Sharia courts - Jihad Watch

theblogprof: Sharia: Muslim Policeman in Britain doesn't have to protect a Jew

And when you consider ordure like Sharia banks, halal slaughterhouses, calls for Muslim toilets and Muslims insisting the burkini even be worn by non-Muslims, it's all a sickening, creeping process. The Jews don't want to impose themselves!



A lot of the aid in Sudan is for the oppressed Christians and Animists - the Muslims do not see them as human often and so unworthy of financial aid.
Religion of Peace, did they say?



No proof so this is mere speculation or baseless personal opinion yet again.
Where does the money come from to pay for the largesse? AFRICAN TAXPAYERS.
Where does any replacement money come from to fill the gap, money supposedly for their dirt-poor? WESTERN TAXPAYERS.


What's not to understand?

('Course, it's all whitey's fault, in the developed world, that Africans starve: 'Ooo, the wich nations have BETWAYED Afwica', say berks. )



Have previously explained and shown in your own links where the lie you believe is.
As Spitting Image once sang, 'it's better to give publicly than pay through higher tax'. When you put money in the tin (or in the shop till) you do it because you know you like to help someone somewhere. When the money is snatched in tax, people have no say where it goes or why it should be stumped-up.


You've shown that the lying is with yourself ... You show absolutely similar thinking on many issues ... hate and ignorance.
And here we go again with the fleckle and playground calls.



Cooky projects including kids being put into employment as child labour and women's groups in low caste rural areas with zero industry.
Cooky projects like their needless space and nuclear arms programmes. Like the African dictators, the Indian Government divert their taxpayers' cash into these things and then expect us to pay for the poor they neglected.

So in that respect, we fund the Indian 'space race' - just as we in the West were giving it up!

And I suppose telling them to prioritise their spending to save us money is out of order, is it? (Well yes, actually, because that's just 'hate and ignowance'!)
 
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-- First - ...she was in another country and wasn't quite aware of the risks of some of her actions.

Naming a teddy Muhammad is a 'risk'? That puts the blame on her! Sounds very much like 'got what was coming' to me. After all, did you get told about teddies?
RoP = Fail.

And to answer your question – we were advised to be considerate of the local culture, and warned about criticising the Federal Govt publicly as people had been arrested after inadvertently opening up to secret police.
She went by herself – but to work in Aid in another country – she didn’t get orientation training.

-- On the second point, you appear to be saying that Gillian Gibbons should have known the customs in someone else's country, whilst also seeming to reckon that the likes certain pushy Muslims should be allowed to hold the axe of Damocles over our heads - for having an 'incompatible' culture.
RoP = Fail.

Gillian Gibbons was actually fingered by a malcontent colleague who had a gripe with the headteacher. The real gripe was between two others and Gibbons was unfortunate enough to be the stick to beat the headteacher with.

If you are really interested – which I highly doubt, listen to the woman herself describe the case.
-- And they do: The Amboy Times: The List of Things That Offend Muslims

You've never, as I can recall, criticised Islamic groups with links to terrorism or even 'mere' extremism: Page Not Found - Debate Politics Forums (Islam a Religion of Peace? Then explain away this damning Government research paper!)
Speaking of fleckle, behold RoP in action. Did I post on that thread?
Basically, you’re posting yet another thread where you got you’re a**e kicked by other debaters but you’re trying to post it as proof of your skilled debate and overwhelming argument.
Get a grip man.

-- And thirdly, again, What was done to Gillian Gibbons wasn't clever however she was in another country and wasn't quite aware of the risks of some of her actions.


Not wicked, barbaric, backward or brutal. Just 'wasn't clever'.
Get your story straight and listen to her discuss treatment by muslims after the case at the end of the interview.
-- Sharia rules in the Sudan. And as for Beth Din, huge numbers of Jews don't want it imposed regardless of its clash with the native culture.
You’ll pleae provide me a link that shows that Muslims seek to impose Sharia? Beth Din is already here and is not imposed on non-Jews. Sharia would be for muslims only – but you already know this, doesn’t suit your agenda to acknowledge that does it?

-- Survey: 61 percent of British Muslims want Sharia courts - Jihad Watch
Do they want Sharia courts for non muslims?

-- theblogprof: Sharia: Muslim Policeman in Britain doesn't have to protect a Jew
A policeman cannot pick and choose assignments – if such a story is true and such a policeman exists, they shouldn’t keep their job.

-- And when you consider ordure like Sharia banks, halal slaughterhouses, calls for Muslim toilets and Muslims insisting the burkini even be worn by non-Muslims, it's all a sickening, creeping process. The Jews don't want to impose themselves!
It’s only creeping if you believe they wish to impose it on other peoples. Halal = Kosher, Sharia = Beth Din.

I'm waiting till the BNP go back to disavowing "support" (non hostility to Jews or Israel and then we'll see whether they become fair game to you.

-- Religion of Peace, did they say?
If you judge millions by the actions of a few.
Besides, there are legitimate concerns over Islam but you continue to joust with the wrong windmills and so we can never move on to legitimate concerns.

-- Where does the money come from to pay for the largesse? AFRICAN TAXPAYERS.
Where does any replacement money come from to fill the gap, money supposedly for their dirt-poor? WESTERN TAXPAYERS.

What's not to understand?
No proof = fail.

—('Course, it's all whitey's fault, in the developed world, that Africans starve: 'Ooo, the wich nations have BETWAYED Afwica', say berks. )
“Afwica,” “Wevisionism” – you’re no different from those you insult. You’ve proved yourself a “wevisionist” elsewhere.

-- As Spitting Image once sang, 'it's better to give publicly than pay through higher tax'. When you put money in the tin (or in the shop till) you do it because you know you like to help someone somewhere. When the money is snatched in tax, people have no say where it goes or why it should be stumped-up.
The amopunt of money needed cannot be raised by giving up old clothes or a few brass buttons into a collection bag / tin.

-- And here we go again with the fleckle and playground calls.
And who accused who of lying or having to appease me?

-- Cooky projects like their needless space and nuclear arms programmes. Like the African dictators, the Indian Government divert their taxpayers' cash into these things and then expect us to pay for the poor they neglected.

So in that respect, we fund the Indian 'space race' - just as we in the West were giving it up!

And I suppose telling them to prioritise their spending to save us money is out of order, is it?
Non sequitur

-- (Well yes, actually, because that's just 'hate and ignowance'!)
Only if our local “wevisionist” says so.. [/ pointless thread]

Good bye, I've done with this particular mulberry bush. You'#re back to type - no proof, baseless speculation and insults.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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RoP = Fail.
Think what you like. Fact is she was still treated like dirt for doing something 'wrong' which she and the children were never aware about anyway.


Basically, you’re posting yet another thread where you got you’re a**e kicked by other debaters but you’re trying to post it as proof of your skilled debate and overwhelming argument.
Swearing now, is it? So I posted an article, jammed with link after link, none of them refuted. Yet, it's supposed to be a defeat to have lefties instead talk about tin-foil hats, in a usual clumsy attempt to humiliate!

Yeah, very whipped I was... !


If you judge millions by the actions of a few.
I judge the religion by its commandments and the behaviour of those who follow it to the letter.



You’ll pleae (sic) provide me a link that shows that Muslims seek to impose Sharia?
Video: Muslim gangs force Sharia law in UK prisons | News | The Christian Institute

Imposition of Shariah on non-Muslims proposed in Aceh | Ekklesia , etc.

And, here in Britain, it's bad enough to have the State-in-a-state rubbish, as with the Muslim Parliament and such. And if forcing non-Muslims to bend to their rules in all kinds of areas on the smaller scale is taken in, you get mini jihads all over the place to impose Islamic will. And it's all the worse when liberals jump in...

Smell of bacon offends Muslims

European art offends Muslims!

Sony recalls game after music offends muslims - The Inquirer

Builders banned from flying England flag over fears it might offend Muslims | swns.com , etc. We know the form by now.



Besides, there are legitimate concerns over Islam but you continue to joust with the wrong windmills...
..the 'wrong' windmills being Islamic terrorists, extremists, supremacists and dhimmis. Oh, and the teachings of Muhammad himself.


No proof = fail.
Oh good. We can cut off all aid forthwith. Indeed, Eithopia is obviously rolling in it without our cash being poured in:

Lavish dinner for al-Bashir by a beggar regime | Ethiopia

CADTM - Dancing with dictators & dictating to democracies



“Wevisionism”
I've never used that term. You introduced that one.


The amopunt (sic) of money needed cannot be raised by giving up old clothes or a few brass buttons into a collection bag / tin.
Yeah. Banquets, armies and poverty parades to jerk the heartstrings don't organise themselves you know.

G8 world leaders' lavish eight-course banquet at food crisis summit - mirror.co.uk

UN flew in starving African kids to be part of staged 'feeding exhibit' for G8 wives on camera, page 1

Top 10 African Dictators



And who accused who of lying ... Non sequitur ... Only if our local “wevisionist” says so.. [/ pointless thread]
Yep, that's the smear and groundless insult. It's called going into a huff.



Good bye, I've done with this particular mulberry bush. You'#re (sic) back to type - no proof, baseless speculation and insults.
Ahem...

Still, if you're stamping off, maybe it's time to get back on-topic.
 
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