Saudi Arabia recalls Danish ambassador

[MSgt]

I am always ready to hear any argument but the Muslims cannot convince me on this one. Again they are playing the victim a bit too much while refusing to admit responsibility for their own actions. Today the news was full of people saying that these cartoons were an abuse of freedom of the press but where were those same people when Al-Jeezira was guilty of similar reporting. Today C-Span was full of Muslims supporters and Imams belaboring the Western press. Perhaps they have a point but when they fail to recognize the same thing when they do it I cannot have much sympathy for them. It's still "I want my cake and I want to eat it too".

Consider this. The US may not have religious fanatics who would react to a slam on Christianity as the Muslims have reacted toward these cartoons But we do have something similar and that is the "Cult of the Flag". To many, perhaps most Americans feel about the flag they way that the Muslims feel about the blasphemy of the cartoons. We have violent arguments over the diplay of the flag,over the dessication of the flag etc.. we have legislation about it. Now if everytime a Muslim burned the US flag the pro-flag group went out and burned down a ME embassy, consulate of mission The nation would be in a constant state of conflagration. There would be burned out embassies littering the national landscape. The flag to most of us does not represent the government, our foreign policy nor the president it represents the American people and it would be wrong to condemn 270 million Americans for the acts of the few in government. How are we going to reach any agreement if the other side does not consider the our feelings? It will be pretty hard IMO.

Our civilizations in the west has prospered under the banner of progress and advancement. We have identified the need to change our religions to suit the needs of society's growth. The Muslim world has stagnated and on every front in the Middle East. The large Radical element is determined to pay any price to keep their people from the prospect that a civilization can change without challenging heaven and without damnation. Instead of facing forward and joining us, they are racing backwards to superstition and myth and they are stagnated because of it. The frustrations of a failing civilization that is clinging desperately to a stubborn religion is reverting more and more to doctrinal punishments of "non-believers" in defence of their God and culture. Our freedoms are, indeed, a threat to what their faiths and beliefs have shaped their culture and in today's world, all civilizations and cultures must co-exist for peace.

I've said it before..."The Radical element is determined to hate us no matter what we do." We can't even practice the freedom of speech and print that our civilizations embrace without inciting the wrath of religious feuled vengeance from them. What is the answer? Sacrifice our advancements to satisfy their superstitions and barbarics by continuing to practice our freedoms that we cherish except when it might upset the Muslim world? Or should we continue to practice our freedoms despite their civilizations failures and religious restrictions and invite the "Clash of Civilizations?"

Samuel Huntington’s “A Clash of Civilizations,” suggests that a war between the West and Islam is inevitable; some Muslims would argue that the wars with Afghanistan and Iraq were the first battles of just such a war. Acceptance of this theory challenges the ability of mankind to alter the nature of conflict and achieve a long-lasting period of peace and prosperity.

The U.S. is now at a crossroads; failure to effectively counter the catalyzing effects of Radical Islam will prove Huntington correct and lead to decreased stability, decreased economic growth, and increased conflict. Conversely, effectively countering this threat now will have worldwide, beneficial effects for generations to come. It is time to prove Huntington wrong and as long as we continue to face the other way and be "politically correct," it's not going to happen.

For all those people out there that continue to believe that we are mistaken about today's reality and that we are only at war with a handful of terrorists and Bin-Laden.....here's your chance to see it. This is a civilization that is expressing their outrage through violence over some cartoons. These people are only one step away from leaving the seats of Radical Islam and embracing the role of the terrorists. We are at war with a civilization and "it doesn't matter what we do." To clarify..Denmark did not bomb a Muslim home...Denmark did not invade a Muslim country...Denmark, merely printed a cartoon and the violence from Radicals and Moderates alike appeared.

Get used to it. The Muslim world refuses to progress and the Western world will not digress.

 

[MSgt]

Thank you, but I know what word I was looking for.

If you speak for yourself, why act as if you're speaking for jamesrage and company? Your "facts" are just your own personal opinion, and if a few years study gives a person the authority to make their opinion concrete, I can't wait until university. :roll: I'm really looking forward to being able to single-handedly define world politics and terrorism.

I've heard the Columbine kids refered to as terrorists. What they committed was mindless destruction, aimed to terrorise. What makes them so different from McVeigh and bin Laden? The fact it doesn't fit into your argument? :lol:

That was horribly weak. I produce explanations into the study and of the reality and all you can do is reply with snide remarks and fragile sarcasm into a world you can't wrap your brain around? Try this first. Visit numerous Muslim nations, read a plethora of books, read a plethora of study, almost complete a career dealing with anti-terrorism and communications, write commentaries, study the psycology of the terrorist's mind, and carry a conversation without using "nu-uh" and you will begin to see the bigger picture. Unless you are studying terrorism and Radical Islam in this University, you won't learn a thing. I have never needed to take a course in anti-terrorism in College for my degree.

You "heard?" You heard wrong. I love youthful ignorance. I am typing for your benefit, not for their defense. You have said erronous things and are under wrong impressions to what is commonly known as fact amongst the anti-terror players. The word "terrorism" is used too loosely by people who do not understand what we are facing. I have already explained to you the difference between an "Apocalyptic" and a "Practical" terrorist. (McVeigh & Bin Ladden) (Would you like to know the troubles with women that both types of terrorists commonly and generally have?) One day, when you are a veteran of reality real world politics, and wiser you might start to understand the subject at hand. Hold your sad little ignorant laugh. You're embarrasing yourself. Funny how the studies and reality fit into my argument, yet nothing you have said fits anywhere but on emotional campusus. Enjoy the proffessional argument (my made up facts) that you dismiss, because mommy and daddy and your highschool teacher didn't tell you....

Arnaud de Borchgrave - Senior Adviser and Director
Center for Strategic and International Studies...."One percent of 1.2 billion is 12 million Muslim fanatics who believe America is the Great Satan, fount of all evil, to be attacked and demolished. Moderate Islam has yet to find a voice that will roll back the extremists, a sort of Islamic Martin Luther [the original, not the one who misappropriated his name] or a Mohandas Gandhi."

http://www.grecoreport.com/radical_islam_rising.htm

Dr. Manfred Gerstenfeld is an international business strategist who has been a consultant to governments, international agencies, and boards of some of the world's largest corporations. Among his nine books are....
"Among the close to one million Dutch Muslims, about 95 percent are moderates. This implies that there are up to 50,000 potential radicals." That means 5 percent in the Netherlands are Radical.

http://www.jcpa.org/brief/brief004-14.htm

Though I agree with many of his views, I do not subscribe to his naive views on what a moderate Muslim is. However, Dr. Daniel Pipes is a leading nationally published Commentary and Analysis on Militant Islam and a renowned Middle East expert. He is the author of 12 books...."Militant Islam derives from Islam but is a misanthropic, misogynist, triumphalist, millenarian, anti-modern, anti-Christian, anti-Semitic, terroristic, jihadistic, and suicidal version of it. Fortunately, it appeals to only about 10 percent to 15 percent of Muslims, meaning that a substantial majority would prefer a more moderate version."

http://www.harvard-magazine.com/on-line/010540.html

Jonathan Schanzer is a Soref fellow at The Washington Institute, specializing in radical Islamic movements. Mr. Schanzer holds a bachelor's degree in international relations from Emory University and a master's degree in Middle East studies from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, where he wrote his master's thesis on the modern history of militant Islam. More recently he studied at the Arabic Language Institute of the American University in Cairo......"Consider bin Laden's own words. "We have seen in the last decade the decline of the American government and the weakness of the American soldier. He is ready to wage cold wars but unprepared to fight hot wars...We are ready for all occasions, we rely on God." Adherents of militant Islam account for some 15-20 percent of the Muslim world."

http://www.meforum.org/article/168



For more on the reality of this growing threat:

What the Pope had to say about Radical Islam...

http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=3222

David F. Forte is a Professor of Law at Cleveland-Marshall College of Law in Cleveland, Ohio and the author of Islamic Studies: Classical and Contemporary Applications..........

http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/ope.../01/islam.html

Danielle Pletka is the vice president for foreign and defense policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington. "Yet the commitment of the enemy is hardly matched by the American commitment to counter him. True, the U.S. is engaged in Iraq. Yes, an unprecedented effort has gone into public diplomacy. But how does the West combat Islamic extremism? U.S. officials confronted with the question hem and haw uncomfortably. They mention the "freedom agenda" and the spread of democracy; and while democracy is indeed the long-term solution to the problem of radical Islam and the appeal of Islamic extremist groups, the problem faces us now. A short-term solution is needed to partner with the long term one. The U.S. remains oddly reluctant to fight Islamic extremism at one of its most important sources: Saudi Arabia."

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article....cle_id=21 056



I guess these men who have dedicated their lives to this study are just making their "own arguments." There's a wide world out there. You should try to study about it instead of relying on "what you heard." If you are catching the sentiment of arrogance again, you would be correct. It is a natural sentiment when dealing with a know-it-all obtuse child.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Arnaud de Borchgrave - Senior Adviser and Director
Center for Strategic and International Studies...."One percent of 1.2 billion is 12 million Muslim fanatics who believe America is the Great Satan, fount of all evil, to be attacked and demolished. Moderate Islam has yet to find a voice that will roll back the extremists, a sort of Islamic Martin Luther [the original, not the one who misappropriated his name] or a Mohandas Gandhi."

http://www.grecoreport.com/radical_islam_rising.htm

.

Exactly it is the extremists who have the pulpit and the sway with the masses the only moderate voices to be found come from the West and hold little sway in the Middle East, that's the whole point of bringing Democracy to the middle east so as to give the Moderates there a voice and an outlet. Under state controlled authoritarian governments who enjoy the Radicalized elements, because they take focus off of their own corrupt regimes, the moderate Muslim voice has no outlet.

 

[Kandahar]

OOOOO, I've got a joke for the situation!

Iran is stupid for doing this. The prize they announced for being selected for the Holocaust cartoons was enough money that 90% of the submissions were from Jews hoping to cash in.

Hahahahaha. :rofl
That's great.

 

[cnredd]

OOOOO, I've got a joke for the situation!

Iran is stupid for doing this. The prize they announced for being selected for the Holocaust cartoons was enough money that 90% of the submissions were from Jews hoping to cash in.

Funny indeed...

In Arabic - The winner of the Best Holocaust Cartoon goes to...

Mendel Finklestein!...

:2wave:

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Funny indeed...

In Arabic - The winner of the Best Holocaust Cartoon goes to...

Mendel Finklestein!...

:2wave:

I find that offensive and anti-semetic now I call upon all followers of Abraham wherever they are able to raise up and boycott this thread! Burn the mother fuc/ker down!!!!!!!!!

 

[mustafa]

Uh, yes.

It's completely legal to do so, and if someone would, they'd probably be deluged with angry letters, criticized as tasteless, and perhaps suffer career consequences. But I doubt crowds would burn embassies.

in that case condemn only the burnin , but don't wonder why these people are angry ..

 

[DeeJayH]

in that case condemn only the burnin , but don't wonder why these people are angry ..

they have every right to be upset and offended or whatever
they do not have the right to run around like barbarians destroying and killing out of anger

 

[teacher]

Thank you.

When my wife and I travel overseas we obey the laws of whatever country we are in.
To us its just respect.

I particularly enjoyed traveling to Amsterdam and obeying their laws.

 

[Deegan]

I particularly enjoyed traveling to Amsterdam and obeying their laws.

LOL, I'm sure that was difficult, no?:devil:

 

[Inuyasha]

in that case condemn only the burnin , but don't wonder why these people are angry ..

I am sure that even the most ardent supporters of military action in Iraq and Afghanistan realize that part of the problem is the fact that even if they are trying to do good, no one likes the idea of having foreign troops in their country. But this is only one part of the problem. Much of the anger is based in problems that exist within these ME nations and has little to do with the West. The idea that many are living in poverty, without future job oppoutunities and with little hope for the immediate future plays a large part in the unrest that many people in the ME are feeling. The idea that a few people are living in opulent splendor while the rest of the nation is living in poverty is a great source of frustration. But do you think for one moment that the people of Saudi Arabia or Iran for example would be allowed to protest the actions of their leaders? Of course not. They would be jailed and tortured to an unbelievable end. Their only recourse is to protest the foreign intervention, real or imagined, in their respective countries.

In many places the Mullahs and the Imams have more power then they can effectively handle, but in order not to lose that power they make the citizenry look to the outside and blame others for many of the problems they themselves have created. They try to manage everything through religious law but religious law makes no provisions for the workings of modern economies, political freedoms in the modern world and a host of other things that the people may desire. Do you think for one moment we are going to allow our own fanatic "Mullahs" like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell to dictate the terms of the American economy or the freedoms of the people? Of course not. These people are not equipped to do this and as long as their opposite numbers in the Muslim world attempt this there will be unrest and frustration among the people. Perhaps the leaders in the Muslim world should look back at their own "golden age of Islam" and relearn some of the important things that period taught the world instead of insisting upon living in the dark ages.

 

[MSgt]

I am sure that even the most ardent supporters of military action in Iraq and Afghanistan realize that part of the problem is the fact that even if they are trying to do good, no one likes the idea of having foreign troops in their country. But this is only one part of the problem. Much of the anger is based in problems that exist within these ME nations and has little to do with the West. The idea that many are living in poverty, without future job oppoutunities and with little hope for the immediate future plays a large part in the unrest that many people in the ME are feeling. The idea that a few people are living in opulent splendor while the rest of the nation is living in poverty is a great source of frustration. But do you think for one moment that the people of Saudi Arabia or Iran for example would be allowed to protest the actions of their leaders? Of course not. They would be jailed and tortured to an unbelievable end. Their only recourse is to protest the foreign intervention, real or imagined, in their respective countries.

In many places the Mullahs and the Imams have more power then they can effectively handle, but in order not to lose that power they make the citizenry look to the outside and blame others for many of the problems they themselves have created. They try to manage everything through religious law but religious law makes no provisions for the workings of modern economies, political freedoms in the modern world and a host of other things that the people may desire. Do you think for one moment we are going to allow our own fanatic "Mullahs" like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell to dictate the terms of the American economy or the freedoms of the people? Of course not. These people are not equipped to do this and as long as their opposite numbers in the Muslim world attempt this there will be unrest and frustration among the people. Perhaps the leaders in the Muslim world should look back at their own "golden age of Islam" and relearn some of the important things that period taught the world instead of insisting upon living in the dark ages.

Very well said.

The Muslim extremist from the Middle East has one consistent message: Return to the past, for that is what God wants (Beware, no matter his faith, of the man who presumes to tell you what God wants). It cannot be accomplished, of course, this longed-for return to a golden age of sanctity and success, that is mostly myth, is gone. But the bloody-handed terrorists and their mentors are determined to pay any price to frustrate those Muslims who believe that God is capable of smiling, or that it is possible to change the earth without challenging Heaven.

In the Middle East, the heavens are falling, and the Earth is wracked by failure. The result was predictable, had we been willing to open our eyes. History has seen human beings react to cultural crises by fleeing into cults that sought revenge. Instead of returning to a "pure" Islam, the terrorists are building a blood cult, a deformed offshoot of their faith that revives the most primitive and grotesque of religious practices that many other religions have partaken throughout history. This crisis has never been as intense as in the Middle East, where treasured values and inherited behaviors simply do not work in the 21st century. Much of the Arab world has withdrawn into a fortress of intolerance and self-righteousness as psychologically comfortable as it is practically destructive.

For an innumerable amount of futureless youth in the Middle East, terrorism is the only path they see to affectively change political, social, economic, and religious forms. The terrorists of Al-Qaeda and its affiliates have returned to pre-Islamic practices, to behaviors that Moses, Christ and Mohammed uniformly rejected: They practice human sacrifice. Osama has been able to convince countless Muslims that his vision is of the purist and proudest Islamic form. This should be a huge warning flag to the west about the spiritual and social crisis in the Middle East.

This "Clash of Civilizations" will get worse. For the West to continue progressing and advancing we must celebrate our freedoms of thought, choice, and print. For the Middle East, the need to race backwards and hold tightly to passed down traditions is greater than their want to progress forward into what they view as the "infidel" world. Neither civilization wants to surrender their freedoms or beliefs. Our freedoms do not accomadate their beliefs and their beliefs do not accomadate our freedoms. For this fact, we can conclude that a civilization's need to change religious forms is a necessity in order for the society to move forward. Islam's functionality as a mundane organizing tool has decayed in much of the world.

There is a crisis within Islam. A religio-social society that restricts the flow of information, prefers myth to reality, oppresses women, makes family, clan or ethnic identity the basis for social and economic relations, subverts the rule of secular law, undervalues scientific and liberal education, discourages independant thought, and believes that anchient religious law should govern all human relations has no hope whatsoever of competing with America and the vibrant, creative states of the West and the Pacific Rim. We are succeeding, the Islamic world is failing, and they hate us for it.

 

[JOHNYJ]

Saudi Arabia spreads more intolerance and religious hatred than any country in the world. They spend millions doing it.
Their state religion spouts it. Them criticizing DEnmark is an absolute Joke.
LONG LIVE DENMARK !

 

[RightinNYC]

in that case condemn only the burnin , but don't wonder why these people are angry ..

I don't wonder why they're angry.

I wonder what the **** is wrong with them that makes them riot in numerous countries, burning embassies, and getting themselves killed.

 

[JOHNYJ]

You obviously don't even want to understand Islam, but here is one thing that everyone can understand -- For most ordinary muslims, they cannot seperate their political, religious and ordinary lives from each other like we can. Religion is the influence on everything, and governs their every action, and unlike other religions, they listen to what is told to them.

They aren't idiots for insisting that the ideals of their religion be respected, and we see it with Christians too (just look to what happens whenever Christianity is supposedly under attack in America...the people come out in force--same thing here). They can do what they want, and frankly, they are trying something other than violence to get their point across. Would you rather they blow up the newspaper's headquaters? No, I would much rather have a boycott of products, thank you very much.

There aren't secular governments (aside from Turkey) in the Mid East and to assume taht they should be secular ebcause you have decided so makes you what you call them, an idiot who can't accept other people's views. This is peaceful protest and justified protest if
you look at the shirk involved.

If they must live in an Islamic culture why are all those muslims in Europe ? maybe for their own good. They should be transported back to their home countries where they can live under shira.
If what you say is true they
are incapable of living in a free and democratic society. Oh yes, LONG LIVE DENMARK !

 

[MSgt]

I don't wonder why they're angry.

I wonder what the **** is wrong with them that makes them riot in numerous countries, burning embassies, and getting themselves killed.

They are desperate and they are victims of their governments which dominates their every freedom through religion. People of intense faith always feel the need to "defend" their religion and their "God." Though violence is rarely seen because of it, we see individuals like this even in America. In the Muslim world we are seeing civilizations lashing out.

I've said it before. Their civilization is failing in the Middle East and they are clinging to passed down traditions and inherited beliefs that do not work in the 21st century - and we are clashing because of it. The rise of Islamic Radicalism and terrorism and their societal failures is because of their self inflicted religious wounds and restraints. Using us as a scaqpegoat will only go so far. In the end, they are still stuck with their dominating religious governments and complete frustrating lack of freedom. They have not and are not willing to conquer their religious superstitions as the west has done over history. America conquered its religious bigotries over the generations—although even we have not vanquished intolerance completely.

Today we see such intractable inter-religious wars in Northern Ireland, between Jews and Muslims and Christians in "Palestine", Hindus and Muslims in South Asia and in many other places. Attempts to bring about peace have failed again and again. Always the extremist elements invoking past injustices, imagined or real, will succeed in torpedoing the peace efforts and bringing about another bout of hostility.

 

[cnredd]

They are desperate and they are victims of their governments which dominates their every freedom through religion. People of intense faith always feel the need to "defend" their religion and their "God." Though violence is rarely seen because of it, we see individuals like this even in America. In the Muslim world we are seeing civilizations lashing out.

I've said it before. Their civilization is failing in the Middle East and they are clinging to passed down traditions and inherited beliefs that do not work in the 21st century - and we are clashing because of it. The rise of Islamic Radicalism and terrorism and their societal failures is because of their self inflicted religious wounds and restraints. Using us as a scaqpegoat will only go so far. In the end, they are still stuck with their dominating religious governments and complete frustrating lack of freedom. They have not and are not willing to conquer their religious superstitions as the west has done over history. America conquered its religious bigotries over the generations—although even we have not vanquished intolerance completely.

Today we see such intractable inter-religious wars in Northern Ireland, between Jews and Muslims and Christians in "Palestine", Hindus and Muslims in South Asia and in many other places. Attempts to bring about peace have failed again and again. Always the extremist elements invoking past injustices, imagined or real, will succeed in torpedoing the peace efforts and bringing about another bout of hostility.

To "piggyback" this idea...

The main reason for this clash is that the world is becoming "smaller" due to the internet, world trade, and global communications...

As long as they didn't have a notion as to what was going on in the rest of the world, they could live in their 6th century world...

But because of the global community, they are being forced to catch up, which is something they aren't really capable of due to their stagnation...Instead of jumping on the train and opening their eyes, they want to look internally to the past and try to grasp what they know instead of realizing that the headway they could make will be better for them in the long run...

The problem is "jumping on the train" is not a "yes or no" option...The answer WILL be "yes"...Technology is going way too fast for a whole civilization to be left behind...

It's just a matter of getting them to stop kicking and screaming on their way to their new school...

 

[MSgt]

To "piggyback" this idea...

The main reason for this clash is that the world is becoming "smaller" due to the internet, world trade, and global communications...

As long as they didn't have a notion as to what was going on in the rest of the world, they could live in their 6th century world...

But because of the global community, they are being forced to catch up, which is something they aren't really capable of due to their stagnation...Instead of jumping on the train and opening their eyes, they want to look internally to the past and try to grasp what they know instead of realizing that the headway they could make will be better for them in the long run...

The problem is "jumping on the train" is not a "yes or no" option...The answer WILL be "yes"...Technology is going way too fast for a whole civilization to be left behind...

It's just a matter of getting them to stop kicking and screaming on their way to their new school...

Exactly.

Fundamentalist terrorism has not arisen despite the progress the world has made, but because of it. We live in an age of change so profound that entire cultures cannot cope with the stress. In the Middle East, the heavens are falling, and the Earth is wracked by failure. The result was predictable, had we been willing to open our eyes. History has seen human beings react to cultural crises by fleeing into cults that sought revenge. The invention of the movable-type printing press in the mid-fifteenth century completely broke down the barriers of understanding amongst the pupulations. Millions of people literally lost their bearings and went through a dark age of terror and religious zealotry.

Numerous other cultural factors, veiled with religious justifications, haunt the old Muslim heartlands. The situation is, indeed, so dire that one sometimes wonders if there is any hope at all. Yes, there is hope, but change must—and will—come first on Islam’s frontiers.

 

[JOHNYJ]

They are desperate and they are victims of their governments which dominates their every freedom through religion. People of intense faith always feel the need to "defend" their religion and their "God." Though violence is rarely seen because of it, we see individuals like this even in America. In the Muslim world we are seeing civilizations lashing out.

I've said it before. Their civilization is failing in the Middle East and they are clinging to passed down traditions and inherited beliefs that do not work in the 21st century - and we are clashing because of it. The rise of Islamic Radicalism and terrorism and their societal failures is because of their self inflicted religious wounds and restraints. Using us as a scaqpegoat will only go so far. In the end, they are still stuck with their dominating religious governments and complete frustrating lack of freedom. They have not and are not willing to conquer their religious superstitions as the west has done over history. America conquered its religious bigotries over the generations—although even we have not vanquished intolerance completely.

Today we see such intractable inter-religious wars in Northern Ireland, between Jews and Muslims and Christians in "Palestine", Hindus and Muslims in South Asia and in many other places. Attempts to bring about peace have failed again and again. Always the extremist elements invoking past injustices, imagined or real, will succeed in torpedoing the peace efforts and bringing about another bout of hostility.

Lets be honest in Palestine it was the grand Mufti that incited religious hatred.Hell he wasa full blown NAZI.
It is muslim Imams who preach hatred not the chief Rabbi of Israel. In Northern Ireland the Pope and primate of Northern Ireland condem violence as does the Archbishop of Canterbury and the local protestant bishops.
Saudi Arabia is the Home of Islam and the leaders of Islam there are hate filled people.

 

[steen]

...The problem is "jumping on the train" is not a "yes or no" option...The answer WILL be "yes"...Technology is going way too fast for a whole civilization to be left behind...

It's just a matter of getting them to stop kicking and screaming on their way to their new school...

Good point. But we see that in all communities. In the US as well, where fundamentalists are hollering about creationism and the more extreme ones like Pat Robertson and Phelbs are ranting and raving all the way on board the "train."

 

[vergiss]

Lets be honest in Palestine it was the grand Mufti that incited religious hatred.Hell he wasa full blown NAZI.

You seriously think that the "grand mufti" was a believer in National Socialist ideals? Aryan superiority and all that jazz?

 

[cnredd]

Good point. But we see that in all communities. In the US as well, where fundamentalists are hollering about creationism and the more extreme ones like Pat Robertson and Phelbs are ranting and raving all the way on board the "train."

That a pretty far jump, but I can see where I could agree with this...Keep in mind you're comparing a fringe element containing individuals with a civilization...It's not quite "apples and oranges"...more like "a few apples to millions of apples"....

And when Robertson & Phelps(and their contingency) start reacting the way the Middle Eastern civilization reacts, then your pont may be more concrete...Not isolated incidents either...full scale embassy takeovers and mass rioting...

 

[JOHNYJ]

That a pretty far jump, but I can see where I could agree with this...Keep in mind you're comparing a fringe element containing individuals with a civilization...It's not quite "apples and oranges"...more like "a few apples to millions of apples"....

And when Robertson & Phelps(and their contingency) start reacting the way the Middle Eastern civilization reacts, then your pont may be more concrete...Not isolated incidents either...full scale embassy takeovers and mass rioting...

It won't wash.You don't see fundamentalist christians murdering school children like in Indonesia. Or fundamentalist policement killing christians in hospital beds like in Egypt.

 

[Gardener]

You seriously think that the "grand mufti" was a believer in National Socialist ideals? Aryan superiority and all that jazz?

It is an established fact that Al Husseini was a Nazi Collaborator. What he actually believed in toto is less important than his objectives in the collaboration, which was the extermination of middle eastern Jewry. After dealing with that "Jewish problem" in Europe, the Nazi's promised him they would turn their attention to the middle east.

The signifigance of the Nazi connection lies in the way the various Nazi themes have influenced and strengthened attitudes already existing within the Arab and greater Islamic world, as well as through the importation of the propaganda style.

If you wish to research, a good start might be the Muslim Brotherhood.