debate_junkie
Worst Nightmare
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2005
- Messages
- 919
- Reaction score
- 19
- Location
- Pennsylvania
- Gender
- Female
- Political Leaning
- Moderate
cnredd said:Well, let's go to chalkboard, shall we?
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/db_by_diocese_1.html
According to this database which says it was updated 3/14/05 here are the allegations of sexual abuse by Archdiocese(In the whole US of A)...
199 - Los Angeles
167 - Boston
68 - Both Dioceses of New York(34) & Brooklyn(34)
60 - Manchester, NH
53 - Chicago
This is the top five, people...A couple more 30s & 40s here and there, but most under 20.
Manchester, NH is 52.84 miles from Boston. Should that be included in the debate? Up to you...For this case, I won't.
Notice the top two?
The two biggest places where Liberalism thrives...co-inky-dink?
http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/napopsm.htm
Here, we see that the population (non-metropolitan...Archdioceses don't work that way) of Los Angeles is 3,829,000 and Boston is 601,000.
Using that thing called math, we see that if Boston was the size of Los Angeles, we can FAIRLY conclude(It's a generalization! Don't get all specific on me) that Boston MAY have somewhere in the vicinity of 1064 alleged abuses. 3829000 divided by 601000 = 6.37...multiplied by 167
Even if I was off by HALF of the total amount...Boston still blows away the competition.
So IF you believe that Senator Santorum is wrong, the question still stands...
Why Boston? If not liberalism, then "what"?
debate_junkie said:Oh I'm just gonna take a stab in the dark and say Bishops and Archbishops unwilling to recognize the ramifications of this. In reality, MANY of these priests were just shipped off to other diocese, increasing the numbers of offenses occuring in parishes across this country.
I would guess the fact, also, that they chose to deal with it internally, ya know the standard confession, penance, a slap on the wrist and more alter boys to supervise would be the MAIN reason why this has and kept occuring under everyone's radar. They didn't call the police. When parents complained, in some cases they were bought to hush.
So go ahead and blame liberalism for the fault of a church to practice what it preached. Besides, Pope John Paul II would have had you believe that Harry Potter was so blatantly damaging to your children, and yet the very priests who he was supposed to be leading were. Imagine that?
cnredd said:You still didn't answer this...Why Boston?...If its because of Archbishop Cardinal Law, then I will contend that its still liberalism...The cardinal was kind enough to annul Kennedy marriages and Teddy Fifth-O-Scotch has stated many times that Cardinal Law is a good friend of the family.
Remember a vast majority of these abuses were same-sex, so with that on mind....
Is homosexuality a liberal issue or a conservative issue? -Liberal
Would homosexual priests be considerd liberal or conservative? -Liberal
Where would you expect to find a lot of homosexual priests? -In a Liberal area
Name the most Liberal area in the country. - Northeast
And where is the "seat" of the northeast? - Boston
debate_junkie said:Boston, my guess became the focus of this... because of John Geoghan, and the amount of times, and parishes, he'd been allowed to perpetrate his crimes. His last parish was in Boston... and the scandal centered there when Law KNEW this was going on, and continued to cover it up.
You Blame Liberalism... why not Los Angeles? Why not Philly? Why not Pittsburgh? Why not ANY city... because a majority if not ALL large cities in this nation are strictly Liberal. So a few figures thrown out means nothing... because 1 priest transferred between a few churches can have devastating effects on numbers.
over 30 years... 6 parishes.... how many young boys could that be? Food for thought.
oh and one more thing? I thought conservatives were all about personal responsibility for one's self and one's actions? hmmm so are you saying that it's only one's fault if liberals cannot be blamed? sounds like a cop out to me.
cnredd said:You still didn't answer this...Why Boston?...If its because of Archbishop Cardinal Law, then I will contend that its still liberalism...The cardinal was kind enough to annul Kennedy marriages and Teddy Fifth-O-Scotch has stated many times that Cardinal Law is a good friend of the family.
Remember a vast majority of these abuses were same-sex, so with that on mind....
Is homosexuality a liberal issue or a conservative issue? -Liberal
Would homosexual priests be considerd liberal or conservative? -Liberal
Where would you expect to find a lot of homosexual priests? -In a Liberal area
Name the most Liberal area in the country. - Northeast
And where is the "seat" of the northeast? - Boston
Naughty Nurse said:OK - homosexuality and paedophilia are two completely different things.
The fact that priests abused children and were allowed to continue doing so is just a matter of the hypocracy of the Catholic church. Why it should centre more one one geographical area is a question you should ask of the Vatican, because the Catholic church was managing the whole sorry business.
Post hoc ergo propter hoc and argumentum ad ignorantiam all in one post.cnredd said:Well, let's go to chalkboard, shall we? <snip> Why Boston? If not liberalism, then "what"?
Simon W. Moon said:Post hoc ergo propter hoc and argumentum ad ignorantiam all in one post.
Congrats.
And argumentum ad hominem for the cherry on top. Don't stop now. There're plenty more logical fallacies you haven't tried to use in this thread.cnredd said:Way to jump off topic...
Profundus Maximus eagerly holds forth on all subjects, but his thin knowledge will not support a sustained assault and therefore his attacks quickly peter out. Profundus Maximus often uses big words, obscure terms and...ahem...even Latin to bluff his way through battle..
Flame Warriors
Welcome to a debate, when you use a bunch of logical fallacies all at once, expect people to call you on them. Here's a good website so you can take some time, learn the terms, and come back with a stronger ability to debate and to catch yourself from proffering these fallacies again.cnredd said:Way to jump off topic...
Profundus Maximus eagerly holds forth on all subjects, but his thin knowledge will not support a sustained assault and therefore his attacks quickly peter out. Profundus Maximus often uses big words, obscure terms and...ahem...even Latin to bluff his way through battle..
Flame Warriors
shuamort said:Welcome to a debate, when you use a bunch of logical fallacies all at once, expect people to call you on them. Here's a good website so you can take some time, learn the terms, and come back with a stronger ability to debate and to catch yourself from proffering these fallacies again.
cnredd said:I don't mind being accused of ANY fallicies, but why point them out WITHOUT answering the actual question? Since when did the debate police have a need to show up and disprupt a thread to point out semantics?
Disagreeing with my "mode" of answering a question STILL LEAVES THE QUESTION...Which I've seen no attempt to answer on your part.
Boston has a very disproportionate rate of child abusers within its priesthood compared to the rest of the country...Why?
Whether or not that question is ad hominum or ipso facto or E. Pluribus Unum or whatever else you want to call it is irrelevant....How about a thoughful answer?
The idea that a lack of an answer lends any credence to the pedophilia/liberalism theory you've advanced is an example of a logical fallacy- argumentum ad ignorantiam (argument from ignorance). Hence, noting the fallacy is crucial to the debate.cnredd said:I don't mind being accused of ANY fallicies, but why point them out WITHOUT answering the actual question?
Disagreeing with my "mode" of answering a question STILL LEAVES THE QUESTION...Which I've seen no attempt to answer on your part.
Boston has a very disproportionate rate of child abusers within its priesthood compared to the rest of the country...Why?
Whether or not that question is ad hominum or ipso facto or E. Pluribus Unum or whatever else you want to call it is irrelevant....How about a thoughful answer?
So as you can see these points are not mere semantics as you aver.cnredd said:Since when did the debate police have a need to show up and disprupt a thread to point out semantics?
Pacridge said:Have you looked into the number of priests in the Boston area as compared to the other areas?
cnredd said:Excellent point!...I'll look into it.
See Simon & shuamort? Was that so hard?
debate_junkie said:http://lukascb.tripod.com/Frames/Down_f.htm
Above is the link to show the churches of Boston downtown, as well as suburban areas of the city. In my search.. downtown was never just given, as I'm guessing all of these churches are included within Boston's diocese, so for sake of argument, perhaps the diocese itself bear's a brunt of the blame for Boston's being the center of the firestorm?
debate_junkie said:http://lukascb.tripod.com/Frames/Down_f.htm
Above is the link to show the churches of Boston downtown, as well as suburban areas of the city. In my search.. downtown was never just given, as I'm guessing all of these churches are included within Boston's diocese, so for sake of argument, perhaps the diocese itself bear's a brunt of the blame for Boston's being the center of the firestorm?
Pacridge said:It almost sounds like you're saying we should blame (hold accountable) the pedophiles for their actions rather than the environment or external influences. If that's what you're saying...I like it.
cnredd said:Well, let's go to chalkboard, shall we?
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/db_by_diocese_1.html
According to this database which says it was updated 3/14/05 here are the allegations of sexual abuse by Archdiocese(In the whole US of A)...
199 - Los Angeles
167 - Boston
68 - Both Dioceses of New York(34) & Brooklyn(34)
60 - Manchester, NH
53 - Chicago
This is the top five, people...A couple more 30s & 40s here and there, but most under 20.
Manchester, NH is 52.84 miles from Boston. Should that be included in the debate? Up to you...For this case, I won't.
Notice the top two?
The two biggest places where Liberalism thrives...co-inky-dink?
http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/napopsm.htm
Here, we see that the population (non-metropolitan...Archdioceses don't work that way) of Los Angeles is 3,829,000 and Boston is 601,000.
Using that thing called math, we see that if Boston was the size of Los Angeles, we can FAIRLY conclude(It's a generalization! Don't get all specific on me) that Boston MAY have somewhere in the vicinity of 1064 alleged abuses. 3829000 divided by 601000 = 6.37...multiplied by 167
Even if I was off by HALF of the total amount...Boston still blows away the competition.
So IF you believe that Senator Santorum is wrong, the question still stands...
Why Boston? If not liberalism, then "what"?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?