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Santa Monica gunman left a note, police say

Black Dog

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Zawahri apparently built his own .223-caliber assault rifle, using it to shoot his father and brother before he set fire to their family home, officials said earlier Thursday.
Zawahri's mother was out of the country visiting family in Lebanon during Friday's rampage but cut short her trip and returned home Sunday. She has been interviewed by detectives.
Seabrooks said the semi-automatic weapon appears to have been built with component parts that are legal to obtain, but put together make the rifle illegal in California.
- Santa Monica gunman left a note, police say

This is a perfect example of how none and I mean none of the new gun legislation will do squat to stop a determined criminal.
 

Black Dog

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She said he also modified an antique black-powder .44 revolver so that it could hold .45-caliber ammunition; it was loaded during the shooting and he carried it with him in a duffel bag.

He also converted a black powder weapon to fire .45. So someone tell me what law could have stopped this???
 

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Nothing will ever stop a determined criminal from doing what they want to do. It's just a fact that all of us need to come to.
 

Black Dog

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Nothing will ever stop a determined criminal from doing what they want to do. It's just a fact that all of us need to come to.
Agreed. They need to stop trying to punish law abiding citizens in the process.
 

LaMidRighter

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Nothing will ever stop a determined criminal from doing what they want to do. It's just a fact that all of us need to come to.
They are hard to stop, but nothing short of an immediate response will cease the actions of a determined criminal, that much is true. The only chance of an immediate response is to have a responsible gun owner or otherwise a citizen that can give a good response to the aggression.
 

Black Dog

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How much do you want to bet not a single gun legislation supporter will have much to say in this thread? Much like the solutions to gun crime thread.

They don't seem to want to address the real problems in society. They would rather place blame on the tool and not address the real problem based purely on politics.
 

braymoore

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They are hard to stop, but nothing short of an immediate response will cease the actions of a determined criminal, that much is true. The only chance of an immediate response is to have a responsible gun owner or otherwise a citizen that can give a good response to the aggression.
I couldn't agree with you more. It's the quickest way to stop these crazies!
 

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How much do you want to bet not a single gun legislation supporter will have much to say in this thread? Much like the solutions to gun crime thread.

They don't seem to want to address the real problems in society. They would rather place blame on the tool and not address the real problem based purely on politics.
Their argument will be, as it ultimately boils down to, "ban them all".
 

Black Dog

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Their argument will be, as it ultimately boils down to, "ban them all".
The problem with that argument is it would take repealing the 2nd amendment. That is not going to happen anytime soon. So in the end that is not an argument.
 

MACS-24

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Zawahri apparently built his own .223-caliber assault rifle, using it to shoot his father and brother before he set fire to their family home, officials said earlier Thursday.
Zawahri's mother was out of the country visiting family in Lebanon during Friday's rampage but cut short her trip and returned home Sunday. She has been interviewed by detectives.
Seabrooks said the semi-automatic weapon appears to have been built with component parts that are legal to obtain, but put together make the rifle illegal in California.
- Santa Monica gunman left a note, police say

This is a perfect example of how none and I mean none of the new gun legislation will do squat to stop a determined criminal.
More proof that it's not about the criminals but controlling informed and concerned citizens.
 

Μολὼν λαβέ

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Their argument will be, as it ultimately boils down to, "ban them all".
Déjà vu...

If I could have banned them all...I would have! -
Diane Feinstein (b. 1933), Gun owner with concealed carry permit. Statement on TV program 60 Minutes, Feb 5 1995
 

Μολὼν λαβέ

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The problem with that argument is it would take repealing the 2nd amendment. That is not going to happen anytime soon. So in the end that is not an argument.
I wish I shared your confidence but I don't. The US state/local/federal governments may not be able to completely ban all guns but will seek other routes to keep you from your 2nd Amendment rights. Have you checked the price of ammo lately?

California Passes Sweeping Gun Control: $50 Ammo Permit Fee, No Detachable Magazines or Mags over 10 rounds | The Daily Sheeple
 

Black Dog

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Μολὼν λαβέ;1061929654 said:
I wish I shared your confidence but I don't. The US state/local/federal governments may not be able to completely ban all guns but will seek other routes to keep you from your 2nd Amendment rights. Have you checked the price of ammo lately?

California Passes Sweeping Gun Control: $50 Ammo Permit Fee, No Detachable Magazines or Mags over 10 rounds | The Daily Sheeple
I am certain some states as already have will do the liberal gun minded thing and pass sweeping useless legislation to disarm the people of said state. I mean you expected less from CA? You will probably see it challenged in court as well. So far gun restrictions have not done so well there.

As for the price of ammo, that is the fault of gun owner fear...

Obama gets elected... First 3 months ammo sales and gun sales go up exhausting normal and surplus supplies held by distributors and ammo producers. producers go into 24 hour production. Things wind down after about 3 months and supplies start to increase and producers return to standard production even though the surplus has not been replenished. A few months later and NT happens. Obama starts talking gun control, and other states again start with gun control talk and laws. Gun owners and new owners go berserk and start buying up everything and hoarding. producers again go into 24 hour production, but the surplus was never replaced from the Obama election buyout. producers and distributors are now out of certain types of popular ammo and prices soar as they can't meet demand because of fear and hype.

Has nothing to do with the government, laws or any conspiracy theory. It is simple hysteria fueled by the order from the government which had nothing to do with the shortage. Gun owners have no one to blame but themselves.

Overreaction is never a good thing. I know people hording not hundreds, but thousands of rounds of ammo. What the hell are they hoarding for? The zombie apocalypse? Overthrow of the US government? The race war? I mean come on, it's 2013, the hysteria is just silly at this point.
 

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Not a single gun legislation pusher yet. The silence is deafening.
 

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I am certain some states as already have will do the liberal gun minded thing and pass sweeping useless legislation to disarm the people of said state. I mean you expected less from CA? You will probably see it challenged in court as well. So far gun restrictions have not done so well there.

As for the price of ammo, that is the fault of gun owner fear...

Obama gets elected... First 3 months ammo sales and gun sales go up exhausting normal and surplus supplies held by distributors and ammo producers. producers go into 24 hour production. Things wind down after about 3 months and supplies start to increase and producers return to standard production even though the surplus has not been replenished. A few months later and NT happens. Obama starts talking gun control, and other states again start with gun control talk and laws. Gun owners and new owners go berserk and start buying up everything and hoarding. producers again go into 24 hour production, but the surplus was never replaced from the Obama election buyout. producers and distributors are now out of certain types of popular ammo and prices soar as they can't meet demand because of fear and hype.

Has nothing to do with the government, laws or any conspiracy theory. It is simple hysteria fueled by the order from the government which had nothing to do with the shortage. Gun owners have no one to blame but themselves.

Overreaction is never a good thing. I know people hording not hundreds, but thousands of rounds of ammo. What the hell are they hoarding for? The zombie apocalypse? Overthrow of the US government? The race war? I mean come on, it's 2013, the hysteria is just silly at this point.
for several years, my wife would make a monthly trip to a big ammo internet dealer (we live close enough to drive the 15 miles and save the shipping which is high on ammo due to the weight) and buy about 250 dollars worth of ammo-that came down to a thousand rounds of 9mm or 40 and a few other things. why-because my wife, son and I go through a few hundred rounds a week since shoot a weekly league during the summer (about 210 rounds for the three of us) and weekly practice sessions. So we do have "Thousands of rounds of ammo" and I currently have 4500 45 ACP bullets waiting to be reloaded etc.
 

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for several years, my wife would make a monthly trip to a big ammo internet dealer (we live close enough to drive the 15 miles and save the shipping which is high on ammo due to the weight) and buy about 250 dollars worth of ammo-that came down to a thousand rounds of 9mm or 40 and a few other things. why-because my wife, son and I go through a few hundred rounds a week since shoot a weekly league during the summer (about 210 rounds for the three of us) and weekly practice sessions. So we do have "Thousands of rounds of ammo" and I currently have 4500 45 ACP bullets waiting to be reloaded etc.
Hehehe! Yea I hear you. It's funny you have .45 waiting to be loaded. That surprisingly is actually one of the easier ammo types to find right now. Yea prices are a little steep, but it seems to be fairly plentiful.

I have no problem with people buying allot who actually go a shoot as you probably know. It's the exponential rise in hording that has gotten out of hand. The sad part is they keep buying! They can never have enough because the government is buying up all the ammo! Jeeeesh.
 

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Hehehe! Yea I hear you. It's funny you have .45 waiting to be loaded. That surprisingly is actually one of the easier ammo types to find right now. Yea prices are a little steep, but it seems to be fairly plentiful.

I have no problem with people buying allot who actually go a shoot as you probably know. It's the exponential rise in hording that has gotten out of hand. The sad part is they keep buying! They can never have enough because the government is buying up all the ammo! Jeeeesh.
we never buy 45 ACP (except for self defense pistols) or 38 Special except for guest to use. 45 ACP is easy to reload, I have dozens of pounds of Hogdon Clays powder, thousands of primers and 25,000 pieces of brass. Same with 38. my son shoots a 327 in steel so we reload special steel loads-125 grain lead 9mm bullet. Less recoil and easy to speed load though the accuracy is not something I would use in bullseye

factory 45 is around 16-20 dollars a 50. I can load it for about 12 dollars a hundred (I have lots of primers back when they were 9-12 bucks a thousand)
 

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Not a single gun legislation pusher yet. The silence is deafening.
your point is this fellow crafted/modified his own weapons
and that allows you to conclude that everyone else should carry a hand gun to protect themselves against potential criminal behavior

what we have found since sandy hook is 6,003 gun homicides, about one thousand per month
i would warrant that few of them were the result of home made/modified guns
i would present that less than 1000 lives are saved each month because of hand guns
those numbers work in favor of gun control

Where there are more guns there is more homicide
Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide
Across states, more guns = more homicide
Harvard School of Public Health » Harvard Injury Control Research Center » Homicide

yes, it will take time to effectively rid our nation of hand guns
and until we do, there will be criminals with guns while law abiding citizens are without
but with strict enforcement of gun controls, those criminals can be put away and the weapons taken off the streets
and even then, determined predators, such as the thread subject, can find a way to craft weapons. but we should not make the perfect the enemy of the good
ridding our streets of hand guns is an appropriate public policy measure. one which will require amendment of the second amendment
 

Black Dog

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your point is this fellow crafted/modified his own weapons
and that allows you to conclude that everyone else should carry a hand gun to protect themselves against potential criminal behavior

what we have found since sandy hook is 6,003 gun homicides, about one thousand per month
i would warrant that few of them were the result of home made/modified guns
i would present that less than 1000 lives are saved each month because of hand guns
those numbers work in favor of gun control
Let me first start of by laughing! :lamo

No. I said in the OP: This is a perfect example of how none and I mean none of the new gun legislation will do squat to stop a determined criminal.

How did you come to the conclusion I said "everyone else should carry a hand gun to protect themselves against potential criminal behavior." I have never stated such nonsense.

Harvard School of Public Health » Harvard Injury Control Research Center » Homicide

yes, it will take time to effectively rid our nation of hand guns
and until we do, there will be criminals with guns while law abiding citizens are without
but with strict enforcement of gun controls, those criminals can be put away and the weapons taken off the streets
and even then, determined predators, such as the thread subject, can find a way to craft weapons. but we should not make the perfect the enemy of the good
ridding our streets of hand guns is an appropriate public policy measure. one which will require amendment of the second amendment
Now lets talk about your study data from Harvard...

Two common proxies for gun availability are used, the percentage of suicides with a firearm, and the"Cook index," the average of the percentage of suicides with a firearm and the percentage of homicides with a firearm. - Firearm availability and homicide rates across 26 high-income countries. | ResearchGate

So they are using "suicide rates" numbers as well as "homicide" rates. Quite telling since suicide is not a crime and has not been for awhile. They are also using old data some from 1988 to 1997 which as we know violent crime rates have actually dropped since then by a large margin.

Lets look at suicide vs homicide rates with something a little more recent then 1997...

In 2009, the age-adjusted suicide rate for the total population (11.8 per 100,000 population) was approximately twice as high as the age-adjusted homicide rate (5.5). Persons aged 18–24 years had the highest rate of homicide in 2009, whereas persons aged 45–54 years had the highest rate of suicide. The suicide rate was higher than the homicide rate among those aged ≥25 years, and this difference increased with age. For persons aged 25–44 years, the rate of suicide was nearly twice the rate of homicide, whereas for those aged ≥65 years, the rate of suicide was nearly seven times the homicide rate. - QuickStats: Suicide and Homicide Rates,* by Age Group — United States, 2009

Man what a huge difference! Lets break it down so you can understand it better...

View attachment 67148913

Hmmm? The highest level of homicide death is for ages 18-24 by a large amount. Could that be because of inner city gang violence in minority neighborhoods? Noooooo that can't be it. :2wave:

Your Harvard study uses old information in a dishonest way as I have shown. You conclusion is flawed as is your addressing my original post.

Have a nice day. :mrgreen:

PS at least you are honest enough to state clearly you want to see all guns banned and our second amendment rights stripped. Thanks for being honest.
 
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