Sanctions

[Craig234]

Sanctions have long been basically a joke to people.

There have been two responses to nations acting badly. If we really care, there's war, and if we want to indicate we disapprove but not have to really do a lot, there are sanctions. And people feel like they hear about sanctions dozens of times - by the US, by the UN - and that they seem not to have an effect, despite politicians acting like they're important. We SANCTIONED!!

Sanctions have had a big effect - on South Africa's apartheid. Despite our having a president on the wrong side, the sanctions were passed, and they did create great pressure that led to the fall of the government.

And now, they appear likely to be very effective against Russia - eventually. A nuclear power this time. But Russia can bomb faster than sanctions can force them not to. It seems 'this can't go on' - the pressure on Putin won't allow him to continue - but it's unclear when they will cause change - today? in a week? In three weeks? and a lot of damage will be done before they do.

Nonetheless, they aren't a joke, and seem to be our best tool, and deserve our strong support - this has largely turned into a global conflict between oppressive government - Russia, China, some dictatorships (and some Republicans) - and democratic values, with the world largely uniting. Putin has made himself the enemy of the democratic world who can't let him win.

Sanctions may need extraordinary levels to be powerful; and that's just what we have, unprecedented sanctions with unprecedented unity. And they will work there seems little doubt. Hopefully not so well that Putin tries to use his nuclear weapons. It's not perfect, just as jail isn't a perfect solution to prevent crime, but it is seeming our best tool, for Russia at least. China might be another situation they'd be less effective against.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Or a proxy war/supplying weapons illegally/etc.

 

[maxparrish]

Or a proxy war/supplying weapons illegally/etc.

Or a proxy war supplying 'volunteer', 'separatists', ...

 

[Craig234]

Or a proxy war/supplying weapons illegally/etc.

True, I should have included that 'middle option'.

 

[maxparrish]

Sanctions have long been basically a joke to people.

There have been two responses to nations acting badly. If we really care, there's war, and if we want to indicate we disapprove but not have to really do a lot, there are sanctions. And people feel like they hear about sanctions dozens of times - by the US, by the UN - and that they seem not to have an effect, despite politicians acting like they're important. We SANCTIONED!!

Sanctions have had a big effect - on South Africa's apartheid. Despite our having a president on the wrong side, the sanctions were passed, and they did create great pressure that led to the fall of the government.

And now, they appear likely to be very effective against Russia - eventually. A nuclear power this time. But Russia can bomb faster than sanctions can force them not to. It seems 'this can't go on' - the pressure on Putin won't allow him to continue - but it's unclear when they will cause change - today? in a week? In three weeks? and a lot of damage will be done before they do.

Nonetheless, they aren't a joke, and seem to be our best tool, and deserve our strong support - this has largely turned into a global conflict between oppressive government - Russia, China, some dictatorships (and some Republicans) - and democratic values, with the world largely uniting. Putin has made himself the enemy of the democratic world who can't let him win.

Sanctions may need extraordinary levels to be powerful; and that's just what we have, unprecedented sanctions with unprecedented unity. And they will work there seems little doubt. Hopefully not so well that Putin tries to use his nuclear weapons. It's not perfect, just as jail isn't a perfect solution to prevent crime, but it is seeming our best tool, for Russia at least. China might be another situation they'd be less effective against.

My question is, what sanctions are we not applying that can be applied? I understand that the Swift sanction is only partial, for example. Why not sanction every member of the Duma as well?

And the next question is, what war material are we not providing that we could? Obviously not nuclear bombs, but what else might be helpful? Air defense launchers? Artillery? Tanks? Napalm (unless outlawed)? More Turkish Drones?

 

[Lutherf]

Sanctions have long been basically a joke to people.

There have been two responses to nations acting badly. If we really care, there's war, and if we want to indicate we disapprove but not have to really do a lot, there are sanctions. And people feel like they hear about sanctions dozens of times - by the US, by the UN - and that they seem not to have an effect, despite politicians acting like they're important. We SANCTIONED!!

Sanctions have had a big effect - on South Africa's apartheid. Despite our having a president on the wrong side, the sanctions were passed, and they did create great pressure that led to the fall of the government.

And now, they appear likely to be very effective against Russia - eventually. A nuclear power this time. But Russia can bomb faster than sanctions can force them not to. It seems 'this can't go on' - the pressure on Putin won't allow him to continue - but it's unclear when they will cause change - today? in a week? In three weeks? and a lot of damage will be done before they do.

Nonetheless, they aren't a joke, and seem to be our best tool, and deserve our strong support - this has largely turned into a global conflict between oppressive government - Russia, China, some dictatorships (and some Republicans) - and democratic values, with the world largely uniting. Putin has made himself the enemy of the democratic world who can't let him win.

Sanctions may need extraordinary levels to be powerful; and that's just what we have, unprecedented sanctions with unprecedented unity. And they will work there seems little doubt. Hopefully not so well that Putin tries to use his nuclear weapons. It's not perfect, just as jail isn't a perfect solution to prevent crime, but it is seeming our best tool, for Russia at least. China might be another situation they'd be less effective against.

Sanctions are great but they haven't done squat to stop Putin and they shouldn't be the only thing we do. We need to backstop Zelensky, meaningfully. We (US, NATO, others) need to provide defensive assets and help Ukraine get airfields operational and we need to provide air support that clears the way for supply transport. We don't need to be in direct conflict but we damned sure need to do what it takes for Zelensky to take care of the business that needs taking care of.

Sanctions AND support are what's needed...and Biden needs to stop buying Russian oil NOW!

 

[DONTbite]

What I just don't understand is why all of this abandonment/"cancelation" of Russia didn't happen all at once? Why this piecemeal bullshit after the fact? And why tf did it take all these worthless governments, ours included, until after an invasion started to start sending needed armament when Russia had been collecting at their border for months?

 

[Craig234]

What I just don't understand is why all of this abandonment/"cancelation" of Russia didn't happen all at once? Why this piecemeal bullshit after the fact? And why tf did it take all these worthless governments, ours included, until after an invasion started to start sending needed armament when Russia had been collecting at their border for months?

The same reason we're bad at it on issue after issue. We're sucking at dealing with climate change, people invest in earthquake safety after earthquakes, we're ignoring the huge danger from China, right now we have cornered animal Putin who could launch a nuclear attack any day, on and on. How did we do on preparing for the Afghanistan withdrawal?