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Sanctions. Effective or counterproductive

Chainsawmassacre

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Sanctions didn’t stop Putin and historically have a very poor record of success so I have to wonder if imposing them on Russia is cutting off our nose to spite our face. Gas is already high and will go higher which will drag down our economy and make inflation even worse and the Dow is crashing.
Can someone tell me exactly why these Biden sanctions are going to do anything but hurt us as much or more than they hurt Putin?
For once I’m actually indecisive on something and could be swayed either way with the right argument.
 
Well, it cripples Russia's ability to compete in a global economy, which will sting quite a bit eventually. The sad thing is, except for acting like we're in a James Bond movie, there isn't a hell of a lot we can do about it on our own. We need to work with the UN and NATO, whom I'm not thrilled with right now.

A lot of Americans scream NO to a world police/army force, but during times like this wish we had one and want to a swift attack back.
The reality is these are two countries, and we aren't able to do a movie style attack without sever consequences ourselves. So, like you I'm not sure what we should do. I feel like flying in there Rambo style and taking care of business.
 
For once I’m actually indecisive on something and could be swayed either way with the right argument.
So you think doing nothing is a reasonable position you could be swayed towards? Wow.
 
Well, it cripples Russia's ability to compete in a global economy, which will sting quite a bit eventually. The sad thing is, except for acting like we're in a James Bond movie, there isn't a hell of a lot we can do about it on our own. We need to work with the UN and NATO, whom I'm not thrilled with right now.

A lot of Americans scream NO to a world police/army force, but during times like this wish we had one and want to a swift attack back.
The reality is these are two countries, and we aren't able to do a movie style attack without sever consequences ourselves. So, like you I'm not sure what we should do. I feel like flying in there Rambo style and taking care of business.
That assumes Putin WANTS to compete in a global economy. They damned sure didn't pre 1989
 
Well, as Pres Biden said, sanctions won't stop the dictator in Russia. But, it is a strong sign at least of action. Remember, Ukraine is not in Nato, hence article 5 is not triggered. But support of an invaded country by a quasi facist dictaor and action against him is a moral imperative, of which sanctions are a part for sure.
 
Sanctions didn’t stop Putin and historically have a very poor record of success so I have to wonder if imposing them on Russia is cutting off our nose to spite our face. Gas is already high and will go higher which will drag down our economy and make inflation even worse and the Dow is crashing.
Can someone tell me exactly why these Biden sanctions are going to do anything but hurt us as much or more than they hurt Putin?
For once I’m actually indecisive on something and could be swayed either way with the right argument.

We can freeze assets of individuals and companies. We can lock them out of the global financial system. We can do all sorts of things that will knock the Russian economy to its knees, and for a long time. This eventually affects ability to wage war (though they are sitting on a reserve of several hundred billion...built up specifically to resist sanctions).

A miserable people also tend not to support their leader as much.

And there's a secondary punitive purpose behind pramgatic purposes.



But this is all in answer to a false premise. You said "these Biden sanctions are going to do anything but hurt us as much or more than they hurt Putin." Given our economy and global standing relative to Russia's, no way in hell is that true.
 
Biden says check back in a month as to the efficacy of the sanctions announced today.
 
The West hasn’t done the one sanction that would really **** Russia:

Cutting off access to SWIFT.

They need to now.
I agree on SWIFT. I do think a lot of the sanctions are pretty strong...

But on SWIFT I would say this: The consideration goverments are taking, and I understand said considerations, are that Russia will only avoid SWIFT and it will only negatively affect us in the West. But to me that is not a convincing argument, since Russia could obviously avoid any sanctions we put on him.

Maybe there is a good reason SWIFT is not yet part of the sanctions, but I do not see it to be frank.
 
I agree on SWIFT. I do think a lot of the sanctions are pretty strong...

But on SWIFT I would say this: The consideration goverments are taking, and I understand said considerations, are that Russia will only avoid SWIFT and it will only negatively affect us in the West. But to me that is not a convincing argument, since Russia could obviously avoid any sanctions we put on him.

Maybe there is a good reason SWIFT is not yet part of the sanctions, but I do not see it to be frank.

Russian oligarchs most definitely use SWIFT. Cutting them off will it them hard.
 
That assumes Putin WANTS to compete in a global economy. They damned sure didn't pre 1989
Well, Russians do and this might just prove to be the thing that gets rid of Putin. Autocracies are difficult, but from what I hear today the businessmen in Russia are pissed and letting Putin know, and the civilians are starting to be active against this attack a gathering to protest. So, Putin personally might not give a shit, but in 2022, he might just lose his seat for not caring.
 
That assumes Putin WANTS to compete in a global economy. They damned sure didn't pre 1989
Russia is a poor country and they need to be in the global economy.
 
That assumes Putin WANTS to compete in a global economy. They damned sure didn't pre 1989
Well his aim seems to be to revive the USSR...I think this man is driven by ego and a dream for a world power (Russia) (under his control) that even though he is not (unfortunately) a moron he is unpredictable.
 
Well, Russians do and this might just prove to be the thing that gets rid of Putin. Autocracies are difficult, but from what I hear today the businessmen in Russia are pissed and letting Putin know, and the civilians are starting to be active against this attack a gathering to protest. So, Putin personally might not give a shit, but in 2022, he might just lose his seat for not caring.
You really think Putin will get voted out? Wow. I guess you really do believe that elections can't be rigged.
 
So you think doing nothing is a reasonable position you could be swayed towards? Wow.
Effectively sanctions are doing nothing. I’d lean towards writing Ukraine off but drastically building our forces in surrounding nato countries and make it clear we have a line in the sand.
 
The West hasn’t done the one sanction that would really **** Russia:

Cutting off access to SWIFT.

They need to now.
Putin said he’d consider that an act of war so it’s a dangerous bluff to call.
 
Well his aim seems to be to revive the USSR...I think this man is driven by ego and a dream for a world power (Russia) (under his control) that even though he is not (unfortunately) a moron he is unpredictable.
He's got the "unpredictable" box checked. This move was ridiculous on its own. Maybe there's more to his plan.
 
Effectively sanctions are doing nothing. I’d lean towards writing Ukraine off but drastically building our forces in surrounding nato countries and make it clear we have a line in the sand.
Sanctions are not effectively nothing, you're misinformed on the topic.
Writing Ukraine off...nice of you. Enjoy your day free of Russian oppression.
 
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