same sex schools (1 Viewer)

[talloulou]

All boys and all girl schools....good idea??

There's alot of talk about it currently. Should public schools be allowed to separate the sexes? I spend alot of time with little ones and I tend to think boys and girls actually might benefit from different styles of learning so I think it's something to consider.

 

[Alex]

Interesting question. I said "Not Sure". I do not have any experience with teaching young people so my knowledge is limited.

An obvious question might be "What about homosexuals?" Should they be separated? This obviously does not apply to elementary schools, but more so to high schools. I guess this would be one reason that I would lean towards no separation. Another would be that more resources might be giving to one over the other. If it is found that one learns at a higher standard than the other, the "lesser" one may not be given everything that they need to learn, or even vice versa.

Also, if it is said that gender co-education causes distrations, and one learns better then the other, then it may be said that ethnicity does the same thing, and that could lead to racial segregation.

 

[Jerry]

I suspect that gender segregation would be desirable on the basis of a difference in learning between boys and girls.

I don't believe that sexual orientation would would have much bearing on the issue.

Would someone please post some studies on this issue?

 

[hipsterdufus]

All boys and all girl schools....good idea??

There's alot of talk about it currently. Should public schools be allowed to separate the sexes? I spend alot of time with little ones and I tend to think boys and girls actually might benefit from different styles of learning so I think it's something to consider.

I teach at an all-girls, independent school. It's a great environment for learning.

Certainly same sex schools aren't for everyone, but there are differences on how boys/girls learn.

 

[Jerry]

I teach at an all-girls, independent school. It's a great environment for learning.

Certainly same sex schools aren't for everyone, but there are differences on how boys/girls learn.

Could you give us some infto. on how boys and girls learn differently?

 

[hipsterdufus]

Could you give us some infto. on how boys and girls learn differently?

Sure here's some info. Gender Matters is a great book on the subject:

What are some differences in how girls and boys LEARN?
Girls and boys differ fundamentally in the learning style they feel most comfortable with. These differences derive both from basic physiological differences, such as differences in the ability to hear, and from differences in higher-level cortical functions.

/snip

That basic difference in the ability to hear has major implications for best practices for teaching girls vs. teaching boys. If you have a classroom with a female teacher who is speaking in a tone of voice which seems normal to the teacher, it's a good bet that the boys at the back of the classroom aren't paying much attention, in part because they can barely hear what she's saying. Conversely, if you have a male teacher speaking in a tone of voice which seems normal to him, a girl in the front row may feel that the teacher is practically yelling at her. Remember that she is experiencing a sound four times louder than what the male teacher is experiencing. The simplest way to accommodate these differences in a coed classroom is to put all the boys in the front and the girls in the back -- just the opposite of the usual seating pattern that the children themselves will choose. In more "modern" classroom arrangements which don't have a "front" -- e.g. all the seats arranged in a circle -- there is no solution to this problem for the coed classroom. If you want a classroom with seats arranged in small groups or in a circle, you need a single-sex classroom (unless you choose simply to ignore the difference in hearing acuity).

/snip

Teaching math and science
Best practices for teaching math differ fundamentally for girls and boys. Recall what you learned on the navigation section of our "brain page": navigational tasks are handled by completely different areas of the brain in girls and boys. In girls, navigational tasks are assigned to the cerebral cortex, the same general section of the brain which is responsible for language. In boys, the same tasks are handled by the hippocampus, an ancient nucleus buried deep in the brain, with few direct connections to the cortex.

/snip

Role-playing exercises work well for girls. Role-playing exercises do not work well for boys.

http://www.singlesexschools.org/research-learning.htm

 

[Rosalie]

Hipster, that's not really about "same sex" schools.

It's entirely unnatural. Even if there are less distractions, it's a false enivornment. You're meant to be preparing kids for life, how can you achieve this by removing an important element of it?

 

[Synch]

Hipster, that's not really about "same sex" schools.

It's entirely unnatural. Even if there are less distractions, it's a false enivornment. You're meant to be preparing kids for life, how can you achieve this by removing an important element of it?

Universities prepare you for life, not secondary schools unless you take a specific course on it. I'm assuming the OP post is referring to the American High School system which extends to a person until he/she is 18 years old.

IMO it depends on the socioeconomic situation, in impoverished areas with high crime sex separation would be wonderful, it removes the distraction of the sexual factor from horny teenagers and prepares them better for life than if they were just focused on each others' genitals all day.

However, if the pupils are focused and concentrated then I see no problem with it, only discrepancies in cognitive abilities which waste the time of some or impair the learnings of others in my personal experience. I was brought up in a fairly prestigious public high school where the average housing price within the area pertinent to that district was six times the national average. Although I have never experienced life under poor economic conditions I still believe removing the factor of sexual desires increases your attention span in learning because I know I would've studied more assiduously if it was in an all male school.

Also Rosalie, HS should not be a synthesis of real life.

 

[talloulou]

Interesting question. I said "Not Sure". I do not have any experience with teaching young people so my knowledge is limited.

Aaah honesty is so refreshing.

An obvious question might be "What about homosexuals?" Should they be separated? This obviously does not apply to elementary schools, but more so to high schools.

That's interesting and not something I had even thought about.

Another would be that more resources might be giving to one over the other.

Clearly if it turned out that the boys schools were better funded or producing better than the girl schools or vice versa that would be a big concern. But I assume that they would be funded equally in the public school system.

Also, if it is said that gender co-education causes distrations, and one learns better then the other, then it may be said that ethnicity does the same thing, and that could lead to racial segregation.

Well i think the question of whether boys and girls learn differently and whether or not different teaching techniques might be more beneficial or detrimental to one sex vs the other is an in interesting thing to ponder because it is obvious in my mind that boys and girls are different. That's why we have boy/girl bathrooms in school.

The idea that races or ethnicities are inherently different though is alot harder to swallow and I don't think you would find any large majority of people in the US today advocating the segregation of races.

I know with my kids and alot of young kids there are very noticable differences between the two sexes. For example alot of the reading material that appeals to girls doesn't appeal at all to most boys and vice versa. Also the boys seem like they would benefit from more shorter breaks to expel their crazy bursts of screwball energy where the girls seem to be okay with the current set up. The boys look like they have trouble sitting still and the girls don't seem to have a problem with it. The boys also tend to need to be yelled out louder for it to sink in that the teacher is serious whereas many girls tear up if yelled out at all.

The homosexual question is an interesting one not because of sexual orientation but because if there is a biological basis for homosexuality than perhaps there are some boys who would do better with the learning styles that are optimal for girls and vice versa and that would apply even to some individuals that were heterosexual.

 

[talloulou]

You're meant to be preparing kids for life, how can you achieve this by removing an important element of it?

Well actually the question applied to grade school, middle school, and high school. But in any case I'd disagree that elementary school or even middle school is set up to "prepare kids for life." I think they are in place to teach kids the fundamentals. Once in jr. high and high school where hormones start to go crazy some kids are so distracted by socializing with the opposite sex that having an all girl school or all boy school greatly diminishes that distraction so they can get on with the business of learning. It's not as if these kids wouldn't get any socialization at all with the opposite sex they just wouldn't get it at school.

 

[dragonslayer]

I am wondering if a homosexual wrote this?

 

[talloulou]

I am wondering if a homosexual wrote this?

What the poll??? I wrote the poll and I'm heterosexual though I hardly see how that matters as I think the question is something all parents would ponder regardless of their sexual orientation.

 

[FallingPianos]

All boys and all girl schools....good idea??

There's alot of talk about it currently. Should public schools be allowed to separate the sexes? I spend alot of time with little ones and I tend to think boys and girls actually might benefit from different styles of learning so I think it's something to consider.

I have mixed feelings about it. I dont think seperating them is sending children the right message.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

I have mixed feelings about it. I dont think seperating them is sending children the right message.

That's where I stand, as well. The evidence seems to suggest that it improves academic performance-- that it improves it considerably-- but it seems also to me that it prevents proper gender socialization and leaves children ill-prepared for later co-ed school and work environments.

And I'm just not sure which is worth more.

 

[jfuh]

Anyone before puberty, fine throw them all together, nothing wrong with that.
During puberty and before 18 split them up during school but encourage them to mingle after school.
There're enough insecurities going on in the teenage mind to side track them. Boys and girls learn very very differently during this time. One side has thier brain floating in testosterone where as the other estrogen. Neither side understands the signals of these horomones at all.
Hence in class let them focus on one thing only. Allow the curriculum to be adjusted to suit both sides independently.

Then come college when they are more mature and better understand how to handle these horomones - toga toga toga.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

There are actually two issues here to consider, and I think many have touched upon them: learning styles and socialization.

There is quite a bit of research that shows there are learning style differences between boys and girls. Some good links are below. The first also includes information around studies done proving the information provided. The second, though primarily informational, also gives some biological differences in how boy and girls brains differ.
http://www.genderdifferences.org/research-learning.htm
http://www.nsba.org/site/doc.asp?TRACKID=&VID=2&CID=91&DID=5637

Some of the more important findings identify the following:

1) Girls tend to learn better in a contextual and cooperative learning evironment; boys do better in a confrontive, competitive one.
2) Girls need more building up with their confidence; boys need more reality checking.
3) Girls are better auditiorily and verbally; boys are better visually and spacially.
These are just some, but highlight some of the differences.

Having worked with middle and high schoolers for more than 15 years, the above examples mirror some of the observations that I have made. Often, depending on the teacher and teacher's style/personality, boys or girls will excell or do poorly because of that teacher's style/personality rather than the students intelligence. So, from a purely learning style/educational viewpoint, single sex schools are advantageous.

Socialization is a whole other matter. There are two schools of thought here. The first is that a same sex school eliminates the inter-sex competition for the attention of the opposite sex, reduces the distractions caused by trying to impress, helps increase intersex cooperation, and allows both boys and girls to particpate in activities that might be embaressing if the opposite sex were in school. The other is that a same sex school does not mirror real life. All of these previously mentioned issues need to be learned and so seperating the sexes does not allow for this.

Reasearch done by the US Education Department shows that in both areas of educational performance and socioemotive develpement, same sex school tend to do better than co-educational schools, though their are two caveats, in my opinion with the research. Firstly, the same sex schools are universally private schools, which research also shows that students do better in those areas then students in public schools. This automatically adds a variable to the research not accounted for, contaminating the data. Secondly, equal amounts of research shows that there is no difference in perfomance between same sex and co-ed schools.

Link to the above mentioned research: http://www.ed.gov/rschstat/eval/other/single-sex/index.html

PDF of the entire study: http://www.ed.gov/rschstat/eval/other/single-sex/single-sex.pdf

I tend to favor a blended school environment. Most of the day is same sex (prinaril the educational portion), but certain social daily activities would be co-ed. This allows for both the advantages of a same sex learning evironment and for the important socialization of a co-ed environment.

If pressed for a choice between the two, however, I would go with the co-ed environment. Even though the research is contrary to that position (though I question the validity of the research for the reasons I mentioned), it is my position that learning how to cope with different learning styles and to navigate different social situations are important skills that help to prepare our youth for the world after school. At a new job, very few will train you, taking your learning style into account. There are very few single sex workplaces, and understanding how to deal with the opposite sex in cooperative and competitive situations is important for both males and females to learn.

I do think that our co-ed schools can be doing more to assist our youth both in learning the social skills important to navigate the world and to both teach towards specific learning styles and educate these students in what their learning style is. I think doing this would change some of the research data in favor of these co-ed schools.

Some information used in this post was obtained here: http://privateschool.about.com/cs/choosingaschool/a/singlesex.htm

 

[Dogger807]

how about a compromise situation? co-ed schools but separate critical classes by gender . that way they get the social interaction and the benefits of different learning styles where they count.

 

[hipsterdufus]

Hipster, that's not really about "same sex" schools.

It's entirely unnatural. Even if there are less distractions, it's a false enivornment. You're meant to be preparing kids for life, how can you achieve this by removing an important element of it?

That's an illogical argument.
Should 5 year olds be in a class with 18 year olds ?
- are they missing fist fights?
- should they be exposed to murderers? etc.

We have students going on to Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc. every year. They're bright, poised and confident.

 

[hipsterdufus]

That's where I stand, as well. The evidence seems to suggest that it improves academic performance-- that it improves it considerably-- but it seems also to me that it prevents proper gender socialization and leaves children ill-prepared for later co-ed school and work environments.

And I'm just not sure which is worth more.

There's no data to prove the latter. I have yet to have an Alum come back and speak of difficulty socially. Remember, there is life outside school, and mixed events during a school year for Middle and High School students.

I didn't know much about single sex ed before my experience teaching at one. I had previously been in mixed schools, but I see the wonderful students that it prepares for life every year.

 

[Rosalie]

Well actually the question applied to grade school, middle school, and high school. But in any case I'd disagree that elementary school or even middle school is set up to "prepare kids for life." I think they are in place to teach kids the fundamentals.

But that's a part of preparing them for life. Teaching them how to do all these things, but only surrounded by members of the same sex; do you really think that's the best way to do it? Don't all these fundamentals become more difficult?

I just honestly can't understand why people want to create such unnatural environments.

 

[rathi]

Seperating genders is a terrible idea in schools. Anyone who has ever played on an all male sports team knows that the all male environment is not something that is exactly best suited towards maintaining a organized friendly enviroment.
Gender segregating schools just leaves kids having more baseless gender roles and less expierence dealing with the real world.

Anyone have a good study that shows that gender segregating schools actually improves academic performance?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

how about a compromise situation? co-ed schools but separate critical classes by gender . that way they get the social interaction and the benefits of different learning styles where they count.

Think I said that here:

I tend to favor a blended school environment. Most of the day is same sex (prinaril the educational portion), but certain social daily activities would be co-ed. This allows for both the advantages of a same sex learning evironment and for the important socialization of a co-ed environment.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Seperating genders is a terrible idea in schools. Anyone who has ever played on an all male sports team knows that the all male environment is not something that is exactly best suited towards maintaining a organized friendly enviroment.
Gender segregating schools just leaves kids having more baseless gender roles and less expierence dealing with the real world.

Anyone have a good study that shows that gender segregating schools actually improves academic performance?

Check out some of the links I posted in post #16.

 

[Thorgasm]

I think that it is a horrible idea. To me, it sounds like "Since teachers are boring and don't know how to engage children, let's separate the genders."

I find it ironic that a male teacher teaches at an all girl school. Since women learn one particular way better, shouldn't the same sex teach them? As far as these studies go, I don't know about the methodology. It would seem impossible to have a control for this study.

Rich kids do better in school, for many reasons. Same-sex schools are mostly private. Poor kids don't go to private schools usually. Thus you can't compare public schools to these. And even if you could, then if we follow this line of logic we would all have to agree that homeschooling provides the best students. Of course everyone shouldn't be homeschooled. This is for many of the reasons that we shouldn't have same-sex schools.

 

[Duke]

All boys and all girl schools....good idea??

There's alot of talk about it currently. Should public schools be allowed to separate the sexes? I spend alot of time with little ones and I tend to think boys and girls actually might benefit from different styles of learning so I think it's something to consider.

I think that if a parent wants to sent his or her child to a segregated school, great: There are plenty of private academies like that. Public schools should be integrated.


Duke