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Same-Sex relationships - and Bible Chrstians - etc

tosca1 said:
.................it still boils down to this fact:


In Gods eyes......................................... only sex between a married male and female, is acceptable.
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And what if I don't believe in God, why should I have to act and be subjected to the views of an individual I don't believe exists?

What God believes has not progressed with the times. Modern society is changing and quite frankly is not willing to have such archaic views drag individuals down with it.
 
DataPoint said:
That is only your incorrect, mistaken interpretation.

Which denomination do you belong?
Click to expand...
Listen, you've make inaccurate claims that I have demolished. I've presented numerous scriptures to support Jesus as Jehovah. You've countered with the dilettante's usual, "no no no" and nothing else. You could at least admit you're wrong and update your theology. We're talking the Bible here.

Not only that, but I doubt there's anything one can present to you to get you off your Dr. No agenda.
 

Should You Believe in the Trinity?​

More than two billion people profess to be Christian. Most belong to churches that teach the Trinity—the doctrine that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit together form one God. How did the Trinity become an official doctrine? More important, is this teaching in harmony with the Bible?
THE Bible was completed in the first century C.E. Teachings that led to the development of the Trinity began to be officially formulated in 325 C.E.—more than two centuries later—at a council in the city of Nicaea in Asia Minor, now Iznik, Turkey. According to the New Catholic Encyclopedia, the creed attributed to the Council of Nicaea set out the first official definition of ‘Christian orthodoxy,’ including the definition of God and Christ. Why, though, was it deemed necessary to define God and Christ centuries after the Bible was completed? Is the Bible unclear on these important topics?

IS JESUS GOD?​

When Constantine became sole ruler of the Roman Empire, professed Christians were divided over the relationship between God and Christ. Was Jesus God? Or was he created by God? To settle the matter, Constantine summoned church leaders to Nicaea, not because he sought religious truth, but because he did not want religion to divide his empire.
“To us there is but one God, the Father.”—1 Corinthians 8:6, King James Version
Constantine asked the bishops, who may have numbered into the hundreds, to come to a unanimous accord, but his request was in vain. He then proposed that the council adopt the ambiguous notion that Jesus was “of one substance” (homoousios) with the Father. This unbiblical Greek philosophical term laid the foundation for the Trinity doctrine as later set forth in the church creeds. Indeed, by the end of the fourth century, the Trinity had essentially taken the form it has today, including the so-called third part of the godhead, the holy spirit.

WHY SHOULD YOU CARE?​

Jesus said that “the true worshipers will worship the Father with . . . truth.” (John 4:23) That truth has been recorded in the Bible. (John 17:17) Does the Bible teach that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit are three persons in one God?
For one thing, the Bible does not mention the word “Trinity.” For another, Jesus never claimed to be equal to God. Instead, Jesus worshipped God. (Luke 22:41-44) A third line of evidence concerns Jesus’ relationship with his followers. Even after he was raised from the dead to the spirit realm, Jesus called his followers “my brothers.” (Matthew 28:10) Were they brothers of Almighty God? Of course not! But through their faith in Christ—God’s preeminent Son—they too became sons of the one Father. (Galatians 3:26) Compare some additional scriptures with the following statement from the creed attributed to the Council of Nicaea.
What the Nicene Creed says:
“We believe . . . in one Lord Jesus Christ . . . that is of the substance of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God.”
What the Bible says:
  • “My Father is greater than I [Jesus].”—John 14:28.*
  • “I [Jesus] ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God.”—John 20:17.
  • “To us there is but one God, the Father.”—1 Corinthians 8:6.
  • “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”—1 Peter 1:3.
  • “These things saith the Amen [Jesus], . . . the beginning of the creation of God.”—Revelation 3:14.*
Italics ours. All the quotations in this section are from the King James Version.

“The doctrine of the trinity . . . is not a product of the earliest Christian period, and we do not find it carefully expressed before the end of the second century.”—Library of Early Christianity—Gods and the One God.

“In order to articulate the dogma of the Trinity, the [Catholic] Church had to develop her own terminology with the help of certain notions of philosophical origin.”—Catechism of the Catholic Church.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102013286
 
goldkam said:
And what if I don't believe in God, why should I have to act and be subjected to the views of an individual I don't believe exists?
Click to expand...


What's the subject of this topic?
What does it says in the OP?

Obviously - we're not talking about you!
 
Elvira said:

Is Jesus God?​

When Constantine became sole ruler of the Roman Empire, professed Christians were divided over the relationship between God and Christ. Was Jesus God? Or was he created by God? To settle the matter, Constantine summoned church leaders to Nicaea, not because he sought religious truth, but because he did not want religion to divide his empire.
“To us there is but one God, the Father.”—1 Corinthians 8:6, King James Version
Constantine asked the bishops, who may have numbered into the hundreds, to come to a unanimous accord, but his request was in vain. He then proposed that the council adopt the ambiguous notion that Jesus was “of one substance” (homoousios) with the Father. This unbiblical Greek philosophical term laid the foundation for the Trinity doctrine as later set forth in the church creeds. Indeed, by the end of the fourth century, the Trinity had essentially taken the form it has today, including the so-called third part of the godhead, the holy spirit.

WHY SHOULD YOU CARE?​

Jesus said that “the true worshipers will worship the Father with . . . truth.” (John 4:23) That truth has been recorded in the Bible. (John 17:17) Does the Bible teach that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit are three persons in one God?
For one thing, the Bible does not mention the word “Trinity.” For another, Jesus never claimed to be equal to God. Instead, Jesus worshipped God. (Luke 22:41-44) A third line of evidence concerns Jesus’ relationship with his followers. Even after he was raised from the dead to the spirit realm, Jesus called his followers “my brothers.” (Matthew 28:10) Were they brothers of Almighty God? Of course not! But through their faith in Christ—God’s preeminent Son—they too became sons of the one Father. (Galatians 3:26) Compare some additional scriptures with the following statement from the creed attributed to the Council of Nicaea.
What the Nicene Creed says:
“We believe . . . in one Lord Jesus Christ . . . that is of the substance of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God.”
What the Bible says:
  • “My Father is greater than I [Jesus].”—John 14:28.*
  • “I [Jesus] ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God.”—John 20:17.
  • “To us there is but one God, the Father.”—1 Corinthians 8:6.
  • “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”—1 Peter 1:3.
  • “These things saith the Amen [Jesus], . . . the beginning of the creation of God.”—Revelation 3:14.*
Italics ours. All the quotations in this section are from the King James Version.

“The doctrine of the trinity . . . is not a product of the earliest Christian period, and we do not find it carefully expressed before the end of the second century.”—Library of Early Christianity—Gods and the One God.

“In order to articulate the dogma of the Trinity, the [Catholic] Church had to develop her own terminology with the help of certain notions of philosophical origin.”—Catechism of the Catholic Church.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102013286
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Lol - what do we expect JW materials to say?


You can keep quoting verses that has Jesus calling men His brothers, and referring to God as His Father.
They are not proof, or even evidence, that support the false teachings of JW!

All of that had been covered and explained in this thread that's devoted to the TRINITY.



RECAP: the following have been given as evidence to show Jesus is God Himself, and the truth of the Triune God:


GOD HIMSELF will be with them[W;105]

No. FYI the devil can enable people to do miracles, and we know Mormonism is a cult, which in part is built on lies. Joseph Smith borrowed from the Bible, changed things and then inserted them in the Book of Mormon. For instance, in Isaiah 29 it's been reported that he added 16 verses, and...
debatepolitics.com debatepolitics.com
 
tosca1 said:
You may not like the message - but yes, they're all from Jesus.
They're all consistent with the OT - which Jesus is consistent with, too. 🤷
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Jesus Never wrote one word of the bible. It wasn't written until about 60 years after his death. His apostles were all illiterate and contributed nothing. Their inputs were included by those who thought they could speak on their behalf after they were dead.
What is written has been through countless revisions and changes made every time. Whatever Jesus supposed to have said, even if he did exist, cannot be taken seriously in light if what we now know.
 
Colin Norris said:
Jesus Never wrote one word of the bible. It wasn't written until about 60 years after his death. His apostles were all illiterate and contributed nothing. Their inputs were included by those who thought they could speak on their behalf after they were dead.
What is written has been through countless revisions and changes made every time. Whatever Jesus supposed to have said, even if he did exist, cannot be taken seriously in light if what we now know.
Click to expand...


If that's the case.....

...............................then, why do you care what the Bible says about same-sex relationship?
 
tosca1 said:
If that's the case.....

...............................then, why do you care what the Bible says about same-sex relationship?
Click to expand...
I don't. I'm telling you it's all rubbish. Religion invented the same sex marriage hatred long after the silly bible.
It's as relevant as the constitution.
 
Colin Norris said:
Jesus Never wrote one word of the bible. It wasn't written until about 60 years after his death. His apostles were all illiterate and contributed nothing. Their inputs were included by those who thought they could speak on their behalf after they were dead.
What is written has been through countless revisions and changes made every time. Whatever Jesus supposed to have said, even if he did exist, cannot be taken seriously in light if what we now know.
Click to expand...

Peter and John wrote their own books. Possibly Matthew too. Matthew was a tax collector. He wouldn't have been illiterate.
 
Colin Norris said:
Jesus Never wrote one word of the bible. It wasn't written until about 60 years after his death. His apostles were all illiterate and contributed nothing. Their inputs were included by those who thought they could speak on their behalf after they were dead.
What is written has been through countless revisions and changes made every time. Whatever Jesus supposed to have said, even if he did exist, cannot be taken seriously in light if what we now know.
Click to expand...
Document one of those "revisions" in the resurrection account of Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew. Cite the pertinent scripture(s). Show me in the 1st and 2nd centuries what was changed (to what), when those occurred, and by whom? Otherwise you have nothing of substance.
 
Colin Norris said:
Jesus Never wrote one word of the bible. It wasn't written until about 60 years after his death. His apostles were all illiterate and contributed nothing. Their inputs were included by those who thought they could speak on their behalf after they were dead.
What is written has been through countless revisions and changes made every time. Whatever Jesus supposed to have said, even if he did exist, cannot be taken seriously in light if what we now know.
Click to expand...
1 Thess at about 19 years post crucifixion, not 60.

Some were illiterate, some were not.

There have been some revisions, but of course we have manuscripts that date back to 125-150 a.d. so subsequent revisions are generally known, understood, and discounted or footnoted in more recent versions (the who-cast-the-first-stone story is likely a later addition, for example). And since we have a convergence on the reliability of early manuscripts, and most newer versions rely on those manuscripts, newer versions are generally considered very reliable - at least to 2nd century manuscripts. The KJV and other earlier English versions of the late 1500's and early 1600's relied mostly on late manuscripts like the textus receptus, and have a handful of revisions. I will say those versions are considered pretty strong in context of what we now know four hundred years later. This "Bible is unreliable because of countless revisions" argument is one that gets tossed around by people who don't really know what they're talking about. Sounds great until one knows and understands the process of NT translation process.
 
Colin Norris said:
I don't. I'm telling you it's all rubbish. Religion invented the same sex marriage hatred long after the silly bible.
It's as relevant as the constitution.
Click to expand...


That's a matter of opinion, isn't it?
 
tosca1 said:
That's a matter of opinion, isn't it?
Click to expand...

There is No God and never has been.
Same sex marriage IS NOT mentioned in the bible. How coincidental it appeared in religion just after it appeared in society.
That's a fact and is undeniable and is not up for an opinion.
 
Mulefoot said:
1 Thess at about 19 years post crucifixion, not 60.

Some were illiterate, some were not.

There have been some revisions, but of course we have manuscripts that date back to 125-150 a.d. so subsequent revisions are generally known, understood, and discounted or footnoted in more recent versions (the who-cast-the-first-stone story is likely a later addition, for example). And since we have a convergence on the reliability of early manuscripts, and most newer versions rely on those manuscripts, newer versions are generally considered very reliable - at least to 2nd century manuscripts. The KJV and other earlier English versions of the late 1500's and early 1600's relied mostly on late manuscripts like the textus receptus, and have a handful of revisions. I will say those versions are considered pretty strong in context of what we now know four hundred years later. This "Bible is unreliable because of countless revisions" argument is one that gets tossed around by people who don't really know what they're talking about. Sounds great until one knows and understands the process of NT translation process.
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Of course you would say that. You're a godbotherer.
There are thousands of books about God but not one has ever offered evidence of the existence of as my god.

Try this. Believers still hold on to Jesus was born of a virgin. Pathenogenisis is impossible in humans. Then there's that old chestnut that the holy spirit inseminated her. Really? I don't think so.
Mary had six children and your son of God was the third. There goes your virgin story.

Then there's those resurrections, talking snakes and dead men walking after Jesus was dead in a grave for three days.
All those scenarios are absolutely ridiculous yet you want me believe the bible is any different.
The only item correct in that book is the page numbers.
 
Colin Norris said:
There is No God and never has been.
Same sex marriage IS NOT mentioned in the bible. How coincidental it appeared in religion just after it appeared in society.
That's a fact and is undeniable and is not up for an opinion.
Click to expand...

No - I say you're wrong. But................
You're entitled to your opinion. 🤷

Existence of God.
I won't debate you on that in this thread. It's off-topic.
 
Logicman said:
Document one of those "revisions" in the resurrection account of Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew. Cite the pertinent scripture(s). Show me in the 1st and 2nd centuries what was changed (to what), when those occurred, and by whom? Otherwise you have nothing of substance.
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I'm not obliged to prove anything because I am an atheist. Believers continually tell the world about their God. I believe there is nothing so the answers should be supplied by you and supported by evidence not from an ancient book which is changed every time it is revised.

To this point it has been 2000 years without one sceric of certainty. Nothing but your faith. Faith does not equate to fact.
What can be asserted without evidence can dismissed without evidence.
 
tosca1 said:
No - I say you're wrong. But................
You're entitled to your opinion. 🤷

Existence of God.
I won't debate you on that in this thread. It's off-topic.
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If it is mentioned in the bible, quote me where.
Debate me where you like and let me know.
 
Colin Norris said:
I'm not obliged to prove anything because I am an atheist.
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Oh yes, you are!


Here, I responded to you.


[W:244] The "Ask The Atheist" Thread part 2 (the real McCoy)

Where does the complexity originate? What's it's source? It's a gradual process. It's not like an elephant walked out of swamp slime one day. A couple billion years of incremental changes could result in something pretty darn complex, wouldn't you say? I'm not sure what you mean by asking...
debatepolitics.com debatepolitics.com
 
Colin Norris said:
I'm not obliged to prove anything because I am an atheist. Believers continually tell the world about their God. I believe there is nothing so the answers should be supplied by you and supported by evidence not from an ancient book which is changed every time it is revised.

To this point it has been 2000 years without one sceric of certainty. Nothing but your faith. Faith does not equate to fact.
What can be asserted without evidence can dismissed without evidence.
Click to expand...
This. Right. Here. New atheist performs drive-by with newly found r/atheism one-liners then reminds believers that he's not obligated to provide anything of value because he's an atheist.

Good times.
 
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