Same Question....New Context

[Hatuey]

Well of course they're not lying they're just changing what they've been saying for the past 6 years and giving it new meaning. It's not lying. It's "changing". And if they are lying, we can always blame it on Clinton right? I wonder if the conservatives on this site will blame Bush for everything when the next president is elected.

 

[Topsez]

Well of course they're not lying they're just changing what they've been saying for the past 6 years and giving it new meaning. It's not lying. It's "changing". And if they are lying, we can always blame it on Clinton right? I wonder if the conservatives on this site will blame Bush for everything when the next president is elected.

Bush always said stay the course... let's finish this war in victory... he always indicated he delegated authority to the commanders on the ground the authority to do what was in the best interest of the objective... it was the liberal press that took stay the course as meaning not changing anything because that is what they wanted to accuse him of.

For torture... Prez Bush said he wants to get answers from terrorists within the limits of the treaties we have agreed to... some in congress disagreed but then made law to indicate what was allowed by law.

Where are the lies... the prez asked congress to define techniques... they defined techniques... the techniques are classified... but approved by bipartisan majority of congress. where are the lies?

 

[Rosalie]

The areas in bold are examples of how brainwashed you are...

Do you realise how stupid this is when conservatives uses this? Conservatives just so happen to agree with the US Government on most of it's policies, the US Government which passes things like the Patriot Act, but OBVIOUSLY Liberals are going to be the one that are more brainwashed?

Conservatism is, by definition, appeal to tradition, which is a logical fallacy, meaning lack of critical thinking, meaning you probably can't think for yourself either.

You were in the US Militiary for many years. I don't think you're going to be the first person to ask about independant thinking.

People here would treat you with a lot more respect if you stopped saying BS like that. Maybe there are some valid insults against liberals, but this is not one. Please stop taking arguments that pertain to you and using them on your opponents.

 

[Topsez]

Do you realise how stupid this is when conservatives uses this? Conservatives just so happen to agree with the US Government on most of it's policies, the US Government which passes things like the Patriot Act, but OBVIOUSLY Liberals are going to be the one that are more brainwashed?

Conservatism is, by definition, appeal to tradition, which is a logical fallacy, meaning lack of critical thinking, meaning you probably can't think for yourself either.

You sound a little condecending... like I'm smart and you are dumb so why do you call me brainwashed? I'm conservative so of course I would attend to agree with conservative administration is most actions and a liberal would likely agree with a liberal administrations policies... that makes neither of us dumb or smarter than the other... Yes, I agree with the PA, witetaps, harsh questioning of terrorists because I'm strong of defense... I disagree with cutting and running or talking down the administration during the time of war... Regardless of the political party holding the Whitehouse I find it anti American for someone to talk negatively about the war mission... Yes, everyone should say this isn't working as well as it could and I think it would work better if........ but, stating thing like Bush is a moron and he lied and on and on during war is not helpful for America's plight in the war. When elected officials talk down the mission to harm a political standing they are merely knocking the man down and standing on his head to be eight inches higher than the prez... the mission is still there and all they do is knock people over with complaints without a unified position offering a better soulution for the complaint they used to knock the person down with.

You were in the US Militiary for many years. I don't think you're going to be the first person to ask about independant thinking.

So you and Kerry are on the same sheet of paper... soldiers are dumb... Critical thinking ... we are at war in Iraq ... we need to end in victory because Iraq has enough oil to finance terrorists to defeat America if we lose and they take charge... why not both parties talk about how we may win and not allow this to happen.

People here would treat you with a lot more respect if you stopped saying BS like that. Maybe there are some valid insults against liberals, but this is not one. Please stop taking arguments that pertain to you and using them on your opponents.

The arguments apply to all Americans... we are at war and we need to have a victory so we all may live in peace... we all need to be on the same team even though we may have different "plays" to offer on the way to the end of the fourth inning... we cannot say this game sucks and it was Bush's idea to have the game... we have to play as one team to win.

 

[Rosalie]

I'm conservative so of course I would attend to agree with conservative administration is most actions and a liberal would likely agree with a liberal administrations policies...

But WHY do you agree with them? That's the point. You've never been able to back up your beliefs very well at all, so there's no reason to presume they're truly your own.

I disagree with cutting and running or talking down the administration during the time of war...

This isn't "time of war". Not a REAL war. It's just america racking up thousands of civilian casualties.

So you and Kerry are on the same sheet of paper... soldiers are dumb... Critical thinking ... we are at war in Iraq ...

The difference between you and Kerry is that Kerry left the "soldier" mentalities behind long ago. You have yet to do so.

 

[MSgt]

Well of course they're not lying they're just changing what they've been saying for the past 6 years and giving it new meaning. It's not lying. It's "changing". And if they are lying, we can always blame it on Clinton right? I wonder if the conservatives on this site will blame Bush for everything when the next president is elected.

Well, it comes down to what you know about the Middle East, Radical religion, Islam, terrorism, civilizational definitions, history, and social constructs. If you know very little, then you make yourself suceptable to what politicians tell you. You can't blame politicians for doing what is natural. Nor can we blame any leader of the free world for refraining from talking of such sensitive issues on international television.

Clinton also believed in a regime change in Iraq as being necessary for a Middle Eastern over haul. The onbly difference is that one acted and the other did not. If it were the other way around, Conservatives would be bitching and Liberals would be defending. Of course in the middle would still be those of us who understand the grander issue and those that are simply lost to what politicians tell them.

Speaking of Liberals...isn't it funny how they proclaim to be the self-appointed voices of humanity on the surface, yet refuse to recognize the wide sweeping oppression and absence of basic human rights among the vast percentage of peaceful Muslims in the Middle East? By refusing to recognize the noble deeds in Afghanistan and Iraq which have denied the Radical fanatics their status quo over the weak, our Liberal Left have wordlessly agreed to let the rest of the world rot. And rot is the birth place of religious terrorism.

Partisan and ideal enslavement exists on both sides, but at least the Conservative side is doing what the Liberal side always preaches about. Just an opinion.

 

[MSgt]

Well of course they're not lying they're just changing what they've been saying for the past 6 years and giving it new meaning. It's not lying. It's "changing". And if they are lying, we can always blame it on Clinton right? I wonder if the conservatives on this site will blame Bush for everything when the next president is elected.

Well, it comes down to what you know about the Middle East, Radical religion, Islam, terrorism, civilizational definitions, history, and social constructs. If you know very little, then you make yourself suceptable to what politicians tell you. You can't blame politicians for doing what is natural. Nor can we blame any leader of the free world for refraining from talking of such sensitive issues on international television.

Clinton also believed in a regime change in Iraq as being necessary for a Middle Eastern over haul. The only difference is that one acted and the other did not. Of course, one had the benefit of being able to spring off of a 9/11. If it were the other way around, Conservatives would be bitching and Liberals would be defending. Of course in the middle would still be those of us who understand the grander issue and those that are simply lost to what politicians tell them.

Speaking of Liberals...isn't it funny how they proclaim to be the self-appointed voices of humanity on the surface, yet refuse to recognize the wide sweeping oppression and absence of basic human rights among the vast percentage of peaceful Muslims in the Middle East and throughout the third world? By refusing to recognize the noble deeds in Afghanistan and Iraq, which have denied the Radical fanatics their status quo over the weak, our Liberal Left have wordlessly agreed to let the rest of the world rot. And rot is the birth place of religious terrorism. It is "unwitting" support.

Partisan and ideal enslavement exists on both sides, but at least the Conservative side is doing what the Liberal side always preaches about. Just an opinion.

 

[Topsez]

But WHY do you agree with them? That's the point. You've never been able to back up your beliefs very well at all, so there's no reason to presume they're truly your own.

I could just as easily say the same about your point of view. The war in Iraq: After 9-11 ME policy changed because of 9-11... no longer was it safe to allow Saddam to hide behind the UN with his declaration of war on America... The world thought he had numerous biological and chemical agents and several intel agencies though he was working on nuclear... if a nation is at war with you and aspires to destroy the enemy, America a reasonable person would conclude that Saddam "may" use the enemy of his enemy, namely OBL terror agents to attack America with deadly weapons such as nerve gas or biological agents... we had just experienced the Senate being closed down by a few envelopes containing bio agents... nerve gas or a dirty bomb given by Saddam to a terrorist was too large of a gamble to allow anything less than 100% sunshine and access to all of his programs to ensure this wouldn't occur.

The Patriot Act: I have lost none of my rights... terrorists have less rights... that is a good thing and a logical approach towards defending America against terror. The same methods were used to fight the war on drugs... so why get upset when it involves terror... I would think that all citizens not involved in drug or terror would welcome new tools to deal with the problem.

Warrantless wire taps:The constitution protects privacy and clearly states that "unreasonable" searches will not be conducted. I don't think it is "unreasonable" to listen to calls from states where know terror agents live... There is no new thing here... in WWII every call between Europe and America was monitored and every letter was opened and read by the federal government.... because it is reasonable to think a cell may be interreacting with a terror agent. There is no way to get a warrent to listen to a phone call unless you have "reasonable" proof in advance of teh conversation that a crime will be committed during the conversation... For a warrant to be issued by a judge the government must prove both the caller and the reciever of the call present "probable cause" as basis for a warrant... you cannot use the phone call as the reason for a warrant after you find out they plan to blow up Hoover Dam, you must prove this prior to the call to a judge for a warrant... Again, a reasonable person would want to know if Hoover Dam was being talked about when a terror agent telephones a person in the US. If OBL called me by mistake and the government listened in on the conversation so what?

Terrorist questioning methods: Acting as a terrorist is a violation of international War Crimes law. Those who are "known" high level terror agents should be questioned with any method that results with positive intel information. Why wouldn't you question these people who violate international law with serious techniques? Maybe they provide bad information the crank up the volume until they provide good information... their crime already holds the death penalty and they are dead men walking so why not dead man walking and talking? Their talking might save tens of thousands of innocent people's lives.

This isn't "time of war". Not a REAL war. It's just america racking up thousands of civilian casualties.

This is a REAL war, a very real war... Twin Towers... the Pentagon .... the people on the airplanes... Iraq, as I linked in the first paragraph is part of this... it didn't have to be but Saddam choose it to be. We do not kill thousands of civilians... terrorists kill innocents... political factions wanting power in Iraq kill thousands of civilians... This is not of America's making... it is fully in the hands of terrorists and political - ethnic groups to take responsibility for. It is sad to see innocent people die in America or Iraq but it was not America's fault these innocent people died.

The difference between you and Kerry is that Kerry left the "soldier" mentalities behind long ago. You have yet to do so.

I have a very low regard for Senator Kerry for many of the things he has said since his departure from the military... He is not on high ground and you know he isn't... even members of the Democratic party now shun him after his remarks... today several speaking engagements were canceled because of his position on the military by Dems running for office... they think his words were not helpful or they wouldn't have canceled his invitation to speak in their behalf. If Kerry doesn't apologize every Republican candidate will ask their Democratic opponent to either agree with Senator Kerry or divorce and condemn Senator Kerry for his harsh statements about the military. Ah...ah... ah... ah.. very telling.

 

[dragonslayer]

The areas in bold are examples of how brainwashed you are... Please explain how you came up with these thoughts because they really sound stupid when read out loud.

The Fact that yu put those areas in Bold, actually show how brainwashed you are by the Right wing Radicals

Radical

1. a person who holds or follows strong convictions or extreme principles; extremist.
2. a person who advocates fundamental political, economic, and social reforms by direct and often uncompromising methods.

 

[MSgt]

The Fact that yu put those areas in Bold, actually show how brainwashed you are by the Right wing Radicals

Radical

1. a person who holds or follows strong convictions or extreme principles; extremist.
2. a person who advocates fundamental political, economic, and social reforms by direct and often uncompromising methods.

Is the act of denying all the problems of the Middle East and calling it a "bogeyman" also a form of Radicalism?

It's amazing how people think. We face true religious Radicals on many levels in this civilization that continues to churn out terrorists against our people (overwhelmingly on their own), yet people choose to call those that face them as "Radicals." Another humerous notion people have is to ignore the aggression of Radical Islam throughout the region and beyond and place the label of "aggression" on those that would combat it. Perhaps the most rediculous is the basic exhoneration of Bin Ladden by parading around Pat Robertson as being equally Radical.

Simply amazing.

 

[Topsez]

The Fact that yu put those areas in Bold, actually show how brainwashed you are by the Right wing Radicals

Radical

1. a person who holds or follows strong convictions or extreme principles; extremist.
2. a person who advocates fundamental political, economic, and social reforms by direct and often uncompromising methods.

Perhaps the use of the word brainwashed didn't best define how I took the words in bold but I honestly tried to restrain myself.

Go back and read the bold words out loud and then answer each one with a strait face out loud in your most convincing voice to yourself...

Did you buy it? I mean really feel confident to say the same things in a public place... I know there are many left leaning politicians that do the same but hey, they don't do it because they believe it... they do it as an alternative to .. .. well, my or the Prez's point of view for your consumption.

Radical would be to demand Iran give up it's ambition to build a nuke and then give them warning that if they don't you will not bomb their nuke facilities but their oil fields... Glow in the dark oil probally would disinterest even Russia... and hey, we could punch a hole in ANWAR to replace it or punch some holes off shore FL or CA... Now that would be radical and it probablly wouldn't kill many folks... disable Iran... and give tens of thousands of Americans jobs in the oil fields... a win win situation... Imagine that producing our own oil for our endless desire for SUV's... now that's radical!

 

[Navy Pride]

Is this suppose to be a poll? Where are the options?

 

[dragonslayer]

The answer is "YES!"

He says we don't torture. Then turns around and signs legislation allowing him to torture. Yeah, he's a liar alright. But what scares me, is maybe he knows he is and just doesn't care.

bush just says what the speech writer tell him. He really doesn't seem to care if he lies or tells the truth. I have recorded on DVD many of Bush and Cheney's speeches. He just seems to ramble on and on. without much regard for anything except making money for his corporate buddies. I see him as a racist and liar who will do or say anything to manipulate people.

to trust Cheney, Rummy, or Bush, akin to trusting the Biblical satan.

It seems that Sadam has been convicted for crimes against humanity. Good lord, look at Bush and Iraq. I am surprised that the Bush Government can even spell the word, Humanity.

 

[MSgt]

It seems that Sadam has been convicted for crimes against humanity. Good lord, look at Bush and Iraq. I am surprised that the Bush Government can even spell the word, Humanity.

More amazement.

Those that face down the tyrants are labeled as tyrants themselves by critics who merely cling to what ever the anti-war voice lies about. Those genoocidal maniacs during WWII should all be placed in prison as well I guess. It's a good thing Roosevelt is dead. According to this logic, he should be hanged with Saddam, Bush, Kennedy, Clinton, Reagan, and every other President that ever put the military in to fight those that would oppress and terrorize.

Try standing for something.