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Sad state of civics in college education

molten_dragon said:
How exactly does not knowing the requirements to run for president make you an uninformed voter? It's not the voter's job to make sure the candidates are actually eligible to run. That's already been done before they're allowed to be on the ballot.
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If you don't know what the electoral college is and how it works I doubt you understand much about our constitution and limitations it places on government.
 
molten_dragon said:
I don't agree with that at all. Unless a fact is critical to your day to day life, like something you use regularly for your job, I don't see why anyone would bother to memorize anything that can be easily looked up in just a few seconds. What's the point of doing it?
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The difference is actually being intelligent instead of looking intelligent.

If you are, let's say, at lunch at your high school, what if somebody asks you a question? You say "Please wait while I google it". Do you realize how stupid that makes you look? I am talking about basic information that everybody in the country should know, like how the government works.
 
Papa bull said:
The point is to understand our political system. If you don't plan on voting and don't think the political system affects your everyday life, then don't bother to learn how it works, but if you think it does affect your every day life and/or you plan on voting, it's foolish (at best) to think it's just fine to be ignorant about how it works. And if you want to actually discuss politics, then not knowing how it works is doubly dumb. It's not just memorizing facts but understanding concepts that is important.

I think the ignorance of the voter is the biggest flaw in our system of government.
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I think it's one of them anyway.

As for the larger issue, everything you actually learn--internalize rather than memorize--expands your brain. Unlike a closet, the more you put in, the more a brain expands.

Too frequently these days I hear young people asking just what has been asked here: Why bother to learn anything when quick answers are available at your fingertips. Depressing to me that the idea of knowledge for its own sake is slipping away.

It's actually okay to learn stuff that won't earn you a grade or money. Not all of life can be reduced to utilitarianism. On the plus side, if you hold information yourself, you'll do okay if your battery dies. ;)
 
nota bene said:
I think it's one of them anyway.

As for the larger issue, everything you actually learn--internalize rather than memorize--expands your brain. Unlike a closet, the more you put in, the more a brain expands.

Too frequently these days I hear young people asking just what has been asked here: Why bother to learn anything when quick answers are available at your fingertips. Depressing to me that the idea of knowledge for its own sake is slipping away.

It's actually okay to learn stuff that won't earn you a grade or money. Not all of life can be reduced to utilitarianism. On the plus side, if you hold information yourself, you'll do okay if your battery dies. ;)
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In a sort of dark and sick way, I would love to see a collapse of the networks that support smart phones. It would be highly entertaining to see all the 'intelligent' and 'enlightened' people bumble around like the real idiots many of them are.
 
I still don't have a smart phone, but I do rely on my computer for info and Google many times a day. It's great. But, interestingly, I retain the information; it doesn't register temporarily and then disappear. What's the point of looking up the same info over and over because you couldn't hold onto it?

And how in the heck do kids graduate from high school without learning civics fundamentals anyway?! Most aren't learning how to read or do math, so what the heck are they doing in school all day? Broadening their social horizons? :roll:
 
nota bene said:
Most aren't learning how to read or do math, so what the heck are they doing in school all day? Broadening their social horizons? :roll:
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That and having their 'self esteem' patted like good little dogs.
 
molten_dragon said:
Intelligence has nothing to do with how many facts you've memorized.
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Your right but an inlegent person know when the dont know something and doesn't try and bs their way through it they use it as a learning experience.
 
molten_dragon said:
How exactly does not knowing the requirements to run for president make you an uninformed voter? It's not the voter's job to make sure the candidates are actually eligible to run. That's already been done before they're allowed to be on the ballot.
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If you don't know the requirements for a president to run for office, then you are an uninformed voter and there's no question about whether it makes you one or not? On the question of how? Well, I'd say the "how" was a result of staring out the window during your civics class. You should also know the roles of the senate and the House of Representatives, what the executive powers of a president are, what appointments presidents make, what it takes to pass a bill through congress, etc. You are voting on people that must do these jobs and if you don't know what their jobs are, then how in the hell do you figure qualified to make the hiring decisions?
 
nota bene said:
I think it's one of them anyway.

As for the larger issue, everything you actually learn--internalize rather than memorize--expands your brain. Unlike a closet, the more you put in, the more a brain expands.

Too frequently these days I hear young people asking just what has been asked here: Why bother to learn anything when quick answers are available at your fingertips. Depressing to me that the idea of knowledge for its own sake is slipping away.

It's actually okay to learn stuff that won't earn you a grade or money. Not all of life can be reduced to utilitarianism. On the plus side, if you hold information yourself, you'll do okay if your battery dies. ;)
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What people don't seem to get is that the more you know, the easier it is to connect the dots when trying to comprehend new ideas and/or concepts and also when trying to find new solutions to new problems. You can't look something up unless you know what you're looking for and if you haven't got the basis in your head to know what to look for you won't find the answers many times. Thinking that "knowing stuff" is silly because we have iphones... All I can say is that the dumbing down of America appears to be coming along very nicely.
 
Papa bull said:
If you don't know the requirements for a president to run for office, then you are an uninformed voter and there's no question about whether it makes you one or not?
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Clearly there is a question, because I'm questioning it.
 
Papa bull said:
I should have said that there is no intelligent question, then. My bad.
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Ah, resorting to personal attacks. The last desperate attempt of someone who knows their argument sucks. I think we're done here.
 
molten_dragon said:
Ah, resorting to personal attacks. The last desperate attempt of someone who knows their argument sucks. I think we're done here.
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Not at all. You may be very bright. Your question, however, was stupid.
 
YoungConserv said:
Your right but an inlegent person know when the dont know something and doesn't try and bs their way through it they use it as a learning experience.
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I wonder if someone who can't spell or use proper grammar, or even make an intelligible sentence should be mocking how "stupid" others are.

You may want to research the proper use of your and you're before you make any more posts about "stupid" college kids.
 
molten_dragon said:
Ah, resorting to personal attacks. The last desperate attempt of someone who knows their argument sucks. I think we're done here.
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Do you really not know the difference between a question being dumb and a person being dumb? Pretty clear he said the 'question', not the 'person'. Or is the difference an inconvenient reality?

I think you were done here long long ago.
 
Verax said:
I wonder if someone who can't spell or use proper grammar, or even make an intelligible sentence should be mocking how "stupid" others are.

You may want to research the proper use of your and you're before you make any more posts about "stupid" college kids.
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This is something I do for fun after I do ten hour days of hard labor I'm not gonna really proof read everything I write.
 
YoungConserv said:
This is something I do for fun after I do ten hour days of hard labor I'm not gonna really proof read everything I write.
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So after a long day of hard labor you're too tuckered out to properly make fun of kids that went to college. Oh the irony.
 
Verax said:
So after a long day of hard labor you're too tuckered out to properly make fun of kids that went to college. Oh the irony.
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Why I have a 4 year degree?
 
YoungConserv said:
I work in the oilfield service industry.
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Roughnecks don't need a bachelors degree. I'm just trying to understand why you'd do hard labor after getting a degree.....
 
Verax said:
Roughnecks don't need a bachelors degree. I'm just trying to understand why you'd do hard labor after getting a degree.....
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Because in my company you have to understand the basics of what they do and that means starting in the field as a roughneck before you become management.
 
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