• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Sad Christmas in Bethlehem

Mira

DP Veteran
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
3,629
Reaction score
796
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
As far I know, Palestinian Christians present no threat to the security of Israel, and yet, their movements are being restricted even during Christmas celebrations. As a result, the economical situation of the Christians of Bethlehem which mainly depends on tourism in in shambles.

Some might consider Al-Jazeera biased (so do I), but the images seen on the film shown on this link don't lie.

The Israeli “security fence” — a sometimes 8-meter tall barrier that contains guard towers and barbed-wire fortifications that the World Court has ruled is illegal — cuts deep into the Palestinian city, and severely restricts travel and supplies. The United Nations estimates that between 50 to 70 percent of the agricultural land used by the citizens of Bethlehem has been confiscated by the building of Israel’s fence and settlement expansion. As a result of the occupation, fewer than 30 percent of visitors choose to spend the night there. ”When tourists see the wall, they think they are going into a war zone,” Adnan Suboh, a souvenir shop owner told the press. ”They are afraid.”

Think Progress The Birthplace of Jesus Is ‘Under Siege’ This Christmas
 
Weird, two days ago I've read an article in YNET that has stated quite directly something around "The Israeli government has given pass to around <number> of Palestinians over the age of <31-35, don't exactly remember), in order to allow them to partake in the Christmas celebrations".

I'll run a search for that article.

Edit: Well, I've only found this article:
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Midd...-Christians-travel-to-Bethlehem-for-Christmas

I don't think that it is smart, security wise, to allow such a big number of people to pass the cross all at once.
While the Palestinian Christians are, as you say, presenting a smaller security threat than the Palestinian Muslims, they're still presenting an actual security threat, and allowing too many of them to pass would be very risky.

Israel has taken a tactical move and has let the people over the age of 31 to pass, as it is more important that the adults would take part in the ceremonies, and by that, has decreased the number of pass-given Palestinians to a reasonable amount.
 
Last edited:
Sad Indeed.
Bethlehem has gone from a Healthy Christian Majority to dwindling Minority Since Oslo gave the PA control.

CNSNews.com - Palestinian Christians Suffering ?Severe Blows? From Muslims, Muslim Says
Palestinian Christians Suffering ‘Severe Blows’ From Muslims, Muslim Says
November 14, 2008
By Julie Stahl


Palestinian Christians are suffering “severe blows” at the hands of Muslims, a Palestinian wrote in an exceptionally candid column about the situation of Christians in Arab countries.

“Let us be honest with ourselves and courageously say out loud that Palestinian Christians are taking many severe blows, yet are suffering in silence so as not to attract attention,” wrote Abd Al-Nasser Al-Najjar in the P.A. daily Al-Ayyam. (A translation was provided by the Middle East Media Research Institute this week.)

Muslims and most Christians in Palestinian areas tell journalists that they are all Palestinians. Publicly, they usually deny that there are any problems or differences between them. They say that they get along fine and the main problem is the Israeli “occupation” of the West Bank.

Privately, however, some Christians admit to job losses, land seizures, attacks on churches, intimidation, torture, beatings, kidnappings, forced marriage and sexual harassment of Christian women. Some Christians have been killed.

But examples of inter-religious tension rarely make it into the Palestinian or Arab media.


In his column on October 25, Al-Najjar, who is himself a Muslim and a regular contributor to the official P.A. newspaper, criticized the Muslim persecution of Christians in Arab countries, particularly in Palestinian Authority-administered areas.
[........]
 
Last edited:
Re: ANOTHER Sad Christmas in Bethlehem/ ALL of them since Oslo in fact

Yasser Arafat's Exemplary Christian Spirit (Avi Davis) February, 2002 1994-2001 alone ensured Bethlehems Fate which continues to tragically unfold as we post.
See Prophetic Elias Friej quote below.

"...The fate of BETHLEHEM offers a fine example. Since 1994, when Arafat first came to administer Bethlehem the Christian population has gradually been reduced from a 60% majority in Bethlehem to a mere 20%
This Arafat ensured by first gerrymandering the municipal boundaries of the city, extending them to include the neighboring refugee camps – Dehaisheh, El-Ayda and El-Azeh and adding a few thousand from the Ta'amarah Bedouin tribe. Concurrently Arafat fired the city council which was composed of 9 Christians and 2 Moslems while appointing Muhammed A- Hjabari, a Moslem from Hebron as mayor. The entire political structure of the city – in the bureaucratic, security and political spheres were eventually cleansed of Christians. Today the Bethlehem region is in reality run by the local Fatah leader and his thugs.

The physical and psychological intimidation of Palestinian Chrisitian Arabs throughout the territory then proceeded rapidly. Mosques were erected in close proximity to churches in order to Oscure and Dminate them.This is the case with the Al Khanga and Abdul Malek mosques which today tower over the Church of the Nativity. Christian cemeteries, convents and monasteries were desecrated, their personnel intimidated and in places, their land confiscated.[......] Not that it wasn't expected. The late Christian mayor of Bethlehem Elias Friej warned that the implementation of the Oslo Accords would result in Bethlehem becoming a town with churches but no Christians. For over 7 years Christian Arabs in East Jerusalem and other West Bank towns have besieged Israeli officials with requests for Israeli I. D. cards knowing full well that the institution of Palestinian rule would result in the kind of extortion and corruption seen wherever the PLO has hoisted its tent.

Those who know something about Persecution of Christians throughout the Arab world will not be shocked by what has occurred in the Palestinian Authority. In Syria, Lebanon and Egypt, Christian populations suffer from both direct and indirect state sponsored discrimination. In other Muslim countries such as Nigeria and Indonesia there is open persecution of Christians while in the Sudan it is estimated that close to 2 Million Christians have lost their lives in the course of a bitter civil war. [.....]
 
Last edited:
Weird, two days ago I've read an article in YNET that has stated quite directly something around "The Israeli government has given pass to around <number> of Palestinians over the age of <31-35, don't exactly remember), in order to allow them to partake in the Christmas celebrations".

I'll run a search for that article.

Edit: Well, I've only found this article:
Israel lets 300 Gazan Christians travel to Bethlehem for Christmas / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

I don't think that it is smart, security wise, to allow such a big number of people to pass the cross all at once.
While the Palestinian Christians are, as you say, presenting a smaller security threat than the Palestinian Muslims, they're still presenting an actual security threat, and allowing too many of them to pass would be very risky.

Israel has taken a tactical move and has let the people over the age of 31 to pass, as it is more important that the adults would take part in the ceremonies, and by that, has decreased the number of pass-given Palestinians to a reasonable amount.

Thank you for the article Apocalypse but the one that I posted also shows how Bethlehem is suffering economically.

It's sad that things became so ugly for the reasons that we both know and already discussed many times.
 
Looks like another as the squeeze continues on Christians throughout the Arab Middle East.
Clearly not a total ban, but more harrassment.

Christmas in Bethlehem: Cross banished to appease Islamic fundamentalists - National Libertarian | Examiner.com
December 23rd, 2010

Never mind dreaming of a White Christmas. This Christmas, tourists and pilgrims to the Holy Land will need to keep their piety under wraps. AsiaNews reports that in Bethlehem, the city of Jesus’ birth, the Cross has been banned for fear of stirring up unrest among followers of Islam (aka, the religion of peace). Writes AsiaNews:

Some textile workshops in Jerusalem and Hebron have begun to print and sell T-shirts depicting the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem without the cross. Because of the growth of Islamic fundamentalism in the Palestinian territories, the cross was also removed from T-shirts of football teams.

Samir Qumsieh, director of the Catholic television station Al-Mahed Nativity TV in Bethlehem, is reported as having said, "I want to launch a campaign to urge people Not to buy these products,” adding “removal of the cross is an intimidation against Christians, it is like saying that Jesus was never crucified.”

As the article further notes, recent years have witnessed a mass exodus of Christians from the Palestinian territories, their chief motivation fear. Since Hamas’ rise to power, the Christian population in Gaza has dwindled from 5,000 to less than 1,800. If the decline continues at the current rate, it is not inconceivable that the Holy Land will eventually have zero Christians living within its borders.
 
Last edited:
Its a real pity religion plays such a significant part in certain communities...

Paul
 
I am not convinced on this cross thing. With the internet we get a lot of red herrings. I have had a look and can find no big news reporting this and on something so crazy and so offensive to so many people I would expect this.
 
Dwindling of Persecuted Christians in Holy Land most Unreported story
By Paul Stanway
Calgary Herald
December 27, 2010
Dwindling of persecuted Christians in Holy Land most Unreported story

One of the staples of television news over the Christmas holiday is coverage of celebrations in the Holy Land, providing a familiar and comforting nod to the ancient roots of Western civilization.

Even in our increasingly secular society, images of Christians worshipping in Nazareth and Bethlehem provide welcome confirmation that we have a long and substantial history - even if we're fuzzy on the details. It all looks so traditional and Christmassy.

Unfortunately this comforting image depends to a large extent on a dwindling number of embattled Christian communities. We are, in fact, witnessing the Twilight of Christianity across much of the Middle East.

Not so long ago Bethlehem was a majority Christian town - about 80% - and now is down to less than a third. Nazareth, too, has seen its Christian population almost halved in recent decades, and in Jerusalem itself the Christian community has fallen from a slight majority 80 years ago to below 2% today.

Christians are leaving the West Bank, in particular, to escape the instability and a long-standing Muslim Boycott of Christian businesses that has Ravaged the community's economic foundations.

Thankfully this modern-day exodus is mostly peaceful, which puts it in marked contrast to much of the history of Christian depopulation in the Middle East.

This is history the West has largely forgotten and ignored. Your average European or North American will certainly be more familiar with the story of the Palestinians and the Much-Publicized grievances of the Arab world in general.

Yet we're not talking ancient history here...
and I think he's even high on his claim of 'less than a third' of Bethlehem being Christian. See my earlier post in the string. And of course, nearly extinct in Gaza.
 
Last edited:
I am not convinced on this cross thing. With the internet we get a lot of red herrings. I have had a look and can find no big news reporting this and on something so crazy and so offensive to so many people I would expect this.

You are correct. That some shopowners in Bethlehem do not have the cross on a few of their merchandise is not the equivalent of banning the cross. There is no reputable or credible media outlet that confirms that ridiculous notion that crosses are banned in Bethlehem.

Of course, mbig will come here and quote what I said and then go on to not address one thing that I posted. :roll:
 
alexa said:
I am not convinced on this cross thing. With the internet we get a lot of red herrings. I have had a look and can find no big news reporting this and on something so crazy and so offensive to so many people I would expect this.
You are correct. That some shopowners in Bethlehem do not have the cross on a few of their merchandise is not the equivalent of banning the cross. There is no reputable or credible media outlet that confirms that ridiculous notion that crosses are banned in Bethlehem.

Of course, mbig will come here and quote what I said and then go on to not address one thing that I posted. :roll:
I didn't say there was a banning of the cross.
The article goes on to explain it's just been removed from some souvenirs (T-shirts etc), and football jerseys.
Some textile workshops in Jerusalem and Hebron have begun to print and sell T-shirts depicting the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem without the cross. Because of the growth of Islamic fundamentalism in the Palestinian territories, the cross was also removed from T-shirts of football teams.

Samir Qumsieh, director of the Catholic television station Al-Mahed Nativity TV in Bethlehem, is reported as having said, "I want to launch a campaign to urge people Not to buy these products,” adding “removal of the cross is an intimidation against Christians, it is like saying that Jesus was never crucified.”

As the article further notes, recent years have witnessed a mass exodus of Christians from the Palestinian territories, their chief motivation fear. Since Hamas’ rise to power, the Christian population in Gaza has dwindled from 5,000 to less than 1,800. If the decline continues at the current rate, it is not inconceivable that the Holy Land will eventually have zero Christians living within its borders.

Further, alexa does not quote me in her reply.. and mentions no "ban".
So you are responding to MY post.. Lying AGAIN about 'ignore.'
And if you have someone on 'ignore'.. Ignore'.
Not doing so and further referring to me, shows No credibility, nor class.

And NO one responds to the dwindling Gaza Christians (1800 down from 5000 under Hamas). The other point in that post.
NOR my article after it!
Dwindling of persecuted Christians in Holy Land most unreported story
NO answer, no dispute, no reference to it.

Yet Degreez has the nerve to say HIS points won't be addressed.
This person who had to [say he] put me on 'ignore' because ...he couldn't address My points at to begin with!
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom