Russian essay on Ukraine

[EMNofSeattle]

L

His stupid statements really do hurt, don't they?


Of course you're not here to talk about any of the other USSR satellite states as that would require admitting Russia has no legitimate claim to any of the others either like Estonia.

No, those are different arguments. I will have to defer as you clearly know much more about the other SSRs, such as East Germany, but when it comes to Ukraine there’s a gap in your historical understanding

Yes, that's exactly what I'm claiming. The USSR and Russia are not the same thing, if they were, it would be the USSR still existing today with the dozen or so countries within it and not just some third world Russian state with the GDP per capita of Ecuador.

The SSSR is the Russian empire territorially speaking. And in any event the creation of the SSSR did not create a ukranian state seperate from it

 

[RabidAlpaca]

And given there is no real unique ukranian history apart from Russia, the confederate example applies more than you think. Kiev was the spiritual home of Russia and the Russian people, imagine a Northern Rump United States seperate from the land of its founding, which was in Roanoke Virginia, seperate from the land of its early presidents and the “father of the country” George Washington, and instead of governing the society from the city built in his honor, it’s governed from New York or Philadelphia, that would leave a traumatic mark on the US if the Confederates succeeded and I think the US would eventually retake the south when they could, whether the south wanted to be retaken or not. It certainly was not a democratic process wjen the US retook the south.

Lol, Jesus you've gone off the deep end of Russian propaganda? No unique Ukrainian history? The language, the people, the culture the history, you all ignore because you've got a Putin boner.

Your repeated comparison of the US south to Ukraine is ridiculous and rejected. Your OP defended any and all war crimes by declaring them justified. Your threads are filth.

L

No, those are different arguments. I will have to defer as you clearly know much more about the other SSRs, such as East Germany, but when it comes to Ukraine there’s a gap in your historical understanding

The SSSR is the Russian empire territorially speaking. And in any event the creation of the SSSR did not create a ukranian state seperate from it

East Germany was a satellite state just like Ukraine. I pointed out if being a USSR satellite justifies Russian ownership in 2022, you likely also favor Russia invading east Germany.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Most of the area which now comprises “Ukraine” has been in the Russian empire since the 18th century.

Though not by choice.

That is the crucial fact you totally neglect to address.

And your OP source is one individual's opinion on a blog site where anyone can publish their nonsense.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Though not by choice.

The vast majority of the global population does not Live in the country in which they live by choice. It is by total random happenstance I was born in the United States. I had no choice in the matter.

That is the crucial fact you totally neglect to address.

Because it is incredibly stupid.

And your OP source is one individual's opinion on a blog site where anyone can publish their nonsense.

Well obviously it is an opinion.

 

[Napoleon]

His stupid statements really do hurt, don't they?


Of course you're not here to talk about any of the other USSR satellite states as that would require admitting Russia has no legitimate claim to any of the others either like Estonia.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm claiming. The USSR and Russia are not the same thing, if they were, it would be the USSR still existing today with the dozen or so countries within it and not just some third world Russian state with the GDP per capita of Ecuador.

Well, you’re wrong. Ukraine never stood on its own two feet until it declared independence in the 1990s. Prior to that, it existed as a land to be conquered and governed by others for its entire history. Parts and pieces formally became part of the Russian Empire in 18th century and later the USSR.
What you’re demonstrating here is an ignorance of how the USSR functioned. Soviet, i.e. Russian, law took precedence over law in the satellite states. No different than how the United States functions with Federal law taking precedence over State law.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Lol, Jesus you've gone off the deep end of Russian propaganda? No unique Ukrainian history? The language, the people, the culture the history, you all ignore because you've got a Putin boner.

The language is another derivative of Slavic. And largely the Ukrainian language only existed in the far west which was not part of the Russian empire. The vast majority of the population of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic spoke Russian, and in the eastern portion of Ukraine Russian predominate says a language. In fact a big reason why after the illegal coup d’état in 2014, that there is tension between Russia and Ukraine is that Ukraine is trying to engage in a forcible assimilation campaign which amounts to cultural genocide.

The Ukrainian people and a unique Ukrainian culture is also largely a very new creation. The modern boundaries of Ukraine do not correspond to a single people. And in fact, Until the 20th century, nearly all of the cultural productions that came from the area now called Ukraine, were considered Russian, Or Polish, or Austrian.

Your repeated comparison of the US south to Ukraine is ridiculous and rejected. Your OP defended any and all war crimes by declaring them justified. Your threads are filth.

I think that the argument the author made is that the United States considers most of the actions taken to reunite the south with the north in the American Civil War were justified. Which is true. I do not believe that many people outside of specific academic senses would consider the march to the sea to be a war crime.

East Germany was a satellite state just like Ukraine. I pointed out if being a USSR satellite justifies Russian ownership in 2022, you likely also favor Russia invading east Germany.

You originally stated that East Germany was an integral part of the Soviet union. Now I see you are backing off of that.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Is it only Russia that's allowed to reclaim historic territory?

 

[CaughtInThe]

Your comparison is stupid and loaded with Russian propaganda.

shocker

 

[Jredbaron96]

Russian essay on Ukraine, this is an essay by a popular Russian blogger and essayist written back in 2014 about Ukraine and has been translated courtesy of the Russians with Attitude podcast. It makes an interesting argument. This is not an uncommon opinion in Russia about Ukraine broadly.

"Bohemicus" on the Ukraine

A popular Russian blogger's historical, cultural & geopolitical analysis of what's happening in Ukraine, written well before the war

rwasamizdat.substack.com

"There is no Russia without Ukraine"

So what was that Russian nation that existed without Ukraine for the past 30 years?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

"There is no Russia without Ukraine"

So what was that Russian nation that existed without Ukraine for the past 30 years?

People repeatedly call me autistic and yet I had no problem seeing the point being made.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Is it only Russia that's allowed to reclaim historic territory?

Those are not Italian territories though. And never were Italian territories. Italy as a nation is a modern conception.

You can say Italy is really Piedmont speaking Tuscan. There was a lot of culturally distinct societies.

But that misses the broader point, which is that this is an example of a Russian writer explaining why he supported Russian military involvement in Ukraine back in 2014. And I don’t think that this attitude is really uncommon in Russia.

 

[Airyaman]

Well if Russia fought a true annexation conflict and won then you would say the same thing as you do about the south?

I don't play "if" games.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I don't play "if" games.

That doesn’t shock me, because being a leftist you don’t operate on any principles, and entertaining counterfactual’s would make you have to admit to a principal.

 

[Juin]

Russians are intentionally bombing civilian targets including those hospitals. It's fair and accurate to call them war criminals. Your defense of their war crimes is noted.

Knock yourself out

 

[Airyaman]

That doesn’t shock me, because being a leftist you don’t operate on any principles, and entertaining counterfactual’s would make you have to admit to a principal.

I operate on reality. The south tried to break away, they lost, so they're still part of the US. Ukraine is a sovereign country and is not part of Russia.

 

[Juin]

Is it only Russia that's allowed to reclaim historic territory?

Then Italy better arm itself up. It is a necessary precondition for making territorial claims or reclamations.

 

[Juin]

I operate on reality. The south tried to break away, they lost, so they're still part of the US. Ukraine is a sovereign country and is not part of Russia.

The same unpleasant reality also makes Ukraine, or portions of it part of Russia, if Ukraine loses the present war with Russia.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I operate on reality. The south tried to break away, they lost, so they're still part of the US. Ukraine is a sovereign country and is not part of Russia.

Well if you were operating on reality the only thing to say is the south lost their war.

 

[Airyaman]

Well if you were operating on reality the only thing to say is the south lost their war.

I already said that.

 

[Redress]

Russian essay on Ukraine, this is an essay by a popular Russian blogger and essayist written back in 2014 about Ukraine and has been translated courtesy of the Russians with Attitude podcast. It makes an interesting argument. This is not an uncommon opinion in Russia about Ukraine broadly.

"Bohemicus" on the Ukraine

A popular Russian blogger's historical, cultural & geopolitical analysis of what's happening in Ukraine, written well before the war

rwasamizdat.substack.com

Do you often find yourself being swayed by and promoting really ****ing retarded propaganda? Ask yourself, should Mexico be able to invade the US to take back Texas? When are England coming back for their colonies? Hell, Poland and others have historical claims to Russian territory. Propaganda, to be effective, requires the reader to not think...

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Do you often find yourself being swayed by and promoting really ****ing retarded propaganda? Ask yourself, should Mexico be able to invade the US to take back Texas? When are England coming back for their colonies? Hell, Poland and others have historical claims to Russian territory. Propaganda, to be effective, requires the reader to not think...

Bohemicus didn’t write that mere ownership of the piece of land in the past means that it should be taken back, but that it is not immoral to take it back, and in his writing he states the land in much of Ukraine is largely Russian in history and character and is linked with the development of Russia, in his words, in a way other former holdings in the East and Central Asia were not.

 

[Rogue Valley]

The vast majority of the global population does not live in the country in which they live by choice. It is by total random happenstance I was born in the United States. I had no choice in the matter.

The vast majority of people in the world do not live in vassal states.

Before independence in 1991, Ukraine was a Soviet Socialist Republic (SSR) ..... its governmnet approved by and answerable to the Kremlin.

Young people in Ukraine today have no memory of the Ukrainian SSR.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Then Italy better arm itself up. It is a necessary precondition for making territorial claims or reclamations.

The justification is the same.

 

[watsup]

Russian essay on Ukraine, this is an essay by a popular Russian blogger and essayist written back in 2014 about Ukraine and has been translated courtesy of the Russians with Attitude podcast. It makes an interesting argument. This is not an uncommon opinion in Russia about Ukraine broadly.

"Bohemicus" on the Ukraine

A popular Russian blogger's historical, cultural & geopolitical analysis of what's happening in Ukraine, written well before the war

rwasamizdat.substack.com

Makes no difference. Ukraine IS an independent country and Putin has no right to “reclaim” it for Russia. Period.

 

[Juin]

Makes no difference. Ukraine IS an independent country and Putin has no right to “reclaim” it for Russia. Period.

Independence is not a permanent condition. Nor territorial integrity.

Independence is as a matter of fact a curable condition. Ukraine has been for decades suffering from a case of chronic and excessive independence. As well as unstable territorial situations. It appears the Russian Federation proposes to address that situation.

If the Russian Federation has its way- and it may not, given the military situation on the ground- then a possible outcome would be a smaller much more manageable Ukraine based in Lviv minus Ukraine east of Dnieper.

What do you think of this Ukraine?

Ukraine[Lviv] = Magna Ukraine - [Crimea + Donbass + Odessa]