Russian essay on Ukraine

[RabidAlpaca]

Now it’s only 100 years? We started with 200 now you’re cutting it back.

Is your argument now going to be “it was part of the Soviet Union (because the Soviet Union was comprised of the Russian Empire) not Russia?

You make your argument and we will discuss.

I've already made my argument. I'm trying to get you to show one instance in the past 100 years where Ukraine was part of Russia. You're refusing because you know it wasn't.

No, the USSR is not synonymous with Russia. If you think it is, then you have to believe the Russians have claim to ALL of the former USSR states including east Germany. Put up or shut up. Show me.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I've already made my argument. I'm trying to get you to show one instance in the past 100 years where Ukraine was part of Russia. You're refusing because you know it wasn't.

No, the USSR is not synonymous with Russia. If you think it is, then you have to believe the Russians have claim to ALL of the former USSR states including east Germany. Put up or shut up. Show me.

East Germany was not a part of the Soviet Union.

Your argument is a continuous assertion. The floor is yours to wipe me with if you want to defend this assertion.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

East Germany was not a part of the Soviet Union

Your repeated refusal to show any instance of Ukraine being part of RUSSIA within even a hundred years of today shows there's absolutely no comparison to the American Civil War and Russia has been Russia just fine without them.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Your repeated refusal to show any instance of Ukraine being part of RUSSIA

Russia is not an acronym.

within even a hundred years of today

Well you started with two hundred years and now it’s 100. What are your reasons for this claim?

shows there's absolutely no comparison to the American Civil War and Russia has been Russia just fine without them.

I mean given you think the DDR was an SSR it seems your geopolitics might be a little off

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Russia is not an acronym.

Well you started with two hundred years and now it’s 100.

I mean given you think the DDR was an SSR it seems your geopolitics might be a little off

If you can't show Ukraine ever being part of Russia within the past hundred years, then 200 years doesn't really matter anyway, which you also couldn't show when asked.

Your argument is a continuous assertion. The floor is yours to wipe me with if you want to defend this assertion.

Oh I've been wiping the floor with you since the beginning of the thread. You've refused at every turn to even attempt to defend any of the dumbass things you claimed in your OP.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

If you can't show Ukraine ever being part of Russia within the past hundred years, then 200 years doesn't really matter anyway, which you also couldn't show when asked.

You’re the one making an assertion. An assertion that’s shakey. I can’t guess which revisionist or semantic argument you’re basing this on so I cannot respond to that. It’s like asking to prove Oklahoma is really a state and you have some wierd argument for why it’s not and refuse to talk about it. Everyone can look and see that large portions of land in what is now Ukraine were a part of the Russian empire within 200 years and that the Ukranian SSR became part of the SSSR because that land was in the Russian empire. If you want to make a countering argument I will refute that argument. Right now you’re arguing the moon is made of cheese and demanding I prove it’s not. It’s not a productive use of my time.

I mean you claimed that East Germany was part of the Soviet Union, which it clearly was not, which shows your education in Geography and history is most inadequate to the current discussion how about you prove when in the last 200 years Germany was part of the Soviet Union?

Oh I've been wiping the floor with you since the beginning of the thread. You've refused at every turn to even attempt to defend any of the dumbass things you claimed in your OP.

I didn’t make any claims, other then that a Russian wrote this essay, which you have not disputed best I can tell

 

[RabidAlpaca]

You’re the one making an assertion. An assertion that’s shakey. I can’t guess which revisionist or semantic argument you’re basing this on so I cannot respond to that. It’s like asking to prove Oklahoma is really a state and you have some wierd argument for why it’s not and refuse to talk about it. Everyone can look and see that large portions of land in what is now Ukraine were a part of the Russian empire within 200 years and that the Ukranian SSR became part of the SSSR because that land was in the Russian empire. If you want to make a countering argument I will refute that argument. Right now you’re arguing the moon is made of cheese and demanding I prove it’s not. It’s not a productive use of my time.

I mean you claimed that East Germany was part of the Soviet Union, which it clearly was not, which shows your education in Geography and history is most inadequate to the current discussion how about you prove when in the last 200 years Germany was part of the Soviet Union?

I didn’t make any claims, other then that a Russian wrote this essay, which you have not disputed best I can tell

I skimmed this and saw no attempts to show Ukraine being part of RUSSIA within the last 100 years or beyond. Let me know when you're ready to defend the stupid things you say.

 

[LostinThought]

You clearly didn't read the OP's article as those are the exact arguments made. Since you're too lazy to read it, I'll post an excerpt here:

"Because without Dixieland, America is not really America. Ukraine is a Russian Dixie. Without Ukraine, Russia is not really Russia. Russian sovereignty over Ukraine must be restored at any cost. And Russians will restore it sooner or later. Even if they have to do terrible things to achieve it."

It directly claims Russia isn't Russia without Ukraine and any amount of war crimes are justified to retake something Russia hasn't had for well over 100 years.

... really that desperate?

You're quoting something that's already a quote from the information that was written. Not something that EMNofseattle is stating directly for themself.
So now it's obvious that you not only read some of the OP, but you're actively trying to lie about it in a setting that anyone can easily see you doing so.

Now once again, let's see if you can actually do this. Where did EMNofseatttle back Putin in any of this?

 

[RabidAlpaca]

... really that desperate?

You're quoting something that's already a quote from the information that was written. Not something that EMNofseattle is stating directly for themself.
So now it's obvious that you not only read some of the OP, but you're actively trying to lie about it in a setting that anyone can easily see you doing so.

Now once again, let's see if you can actually do this. Where did EMNofseatttle back Putin in any of this?

You don't get to change the subject. Show when Ukraine was part of Russia within the last hundred years or defend that Russia can't be Russia without Ukraine. If you're not here to attack or defend any of the claims in the OP, you and I have nothing to discuss.

 

[LostinThought]

You don't get to change the subject. Show when Ukraine was part of Russia within the last hundred years or defend that Russia can't be Russia without Ukraine. If you're not here to attack or defend any of the claims in the OP, you and I have nothing to discuss.

Now now, I'm not going to let you run away from the question that easily. You've already made the claim that EMN was "Backing Putin" and I'm going to hold you to actually being able to show your work on this one.

All that was being done, was that a Russian perspective was being shared with the rest of us and nothing more.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Now now, I'm not going to let you run away from the question that easily. You've already made the claim that EMN was "Backing Putin" and I'm going to hold you to actually being able to show your work on this one.

All that was being done, was that a Russian perspective was being shared with the rest of us and nothing more.

I'll answer your unrelated questions when you can address literally anything I've actually said addressing the OP. Show me when Ukraine was part of Russia within the last hundred years, defend that Russia can't be Russia without Ukraine, or run along, kid.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You don't get to change the subject. Show when Ukraine was part of Russia within the last hundred years or defend that Russia can't be Russia without Ukraine. If you're not here to attack or defend any of the claims in the OP, you and I have nothing to discuss.

I mean you’ve already admitted you were wrong by changing the timeline and earlier on you admitted that your reasoning is because Ukraine wasn’t part of the Russia because the Soviet Union isn’t Russia anx East Germany wasn’t part of Russia even though it was part of the Soviet Union. But East Germany was never part of the Soviet Union. So your admission now is you’re making up details to fit a narrative. Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, due its status as a region in the Russian empire. Only the far west of Ukraine was not part of the Russian empire, until world war 1 when it was taken by Russians from Austria-Hungary. In addition Kiev is the spiritual home of the Russian people as it was the seat of the Kievan Rus, where Rurik came from Scandinavia to lead the slavs, and where Prince Vladimir was baptized in order to marry Princess Anna of Constantinople. It’s thoroughly linked to Russia.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I'll answer your unrelated questions when you can address literally anything I've actually said addressing the OP. Show me when Ukraine was part of Russia within the last hundred years, defend that Russia can't be Russia without Ukraine, or run along, kid.

Why not the last two hundred years as you originally demanded?

 

[OrphanSlug]

Expect to see more and more of the nonsense like what the OP brings to the table, it is all that is left for the OP and likeminded to justify war crimes.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Why not the last two hundred years as you originally demanded?

You refused to show that either so I tried to make it simpler for you to understand.

I mean you’ve already admitted you were wrong by changing the timeline and earlier on you admitted that your reasoning is because Ukraine wasn’t part of the Russia because the Soviet Union isn’t Russia anx East Germany wasn’t part of Russia even though it was part of the Soviet Union. But East Germany was never part of the Soviet Union. So your admission now is you’re making up details to fit a narrative. Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, due its status as a region in the Russian empire. Only the far west of Ukraine was not part of the Russian empire, until world war 1 when it was taken by Russians from Austria-Hungary. In addition Kiev is the spiritual home of the Russian people as it was the seat of the Kievan Rus, where Rurik came from Scandinavia to lead the slavs, and where Prince Vladimir was baptized in order to marry Princess Anna of Constantinople. It’s thoroughly linked to Russia.

You've refused to show Ukraine being part of Russia within the past 100, or 200 years, so stop pretending the number matters. How many hundreds of years after the confederacy declared independence did the Civil War start? 100? 200? Similar situations right?

Russia and Ukraine were both part of the USSR and the USSR stopped existing in 91, so about 31 years ago. Even if one accepted your ridiculous assertion that USSR and Russia are synonyms, 31 years of delay to start a "Civil War" is ridiculous.

 

[LostinThought]

I'll answer your unrelated questions when you can address literally anything I've actually said addressing the OP. Show me when Ukraine was part of Russia within the last hundred years, defend that Russia can't be Russia without Ukraine, or run along, kid.

Aww that's cute. You called me kid... if that doesn't explain just how ****ed you are when it comes to actual debate and matching up to your own BS. Then there isn't much else too really show just how deep this is for you.
You made a claim, a stupid one, but a claim none the less. And now that you've been asked to actually supply proof, you're going to keep showing your back on the issue, because you simply can't make it work in your favor.
I also addressed a part of the topic, that it was a Russian's perspective.. which shows that you're the one lacking in the reading ability here.

The funny part is that I'm the only one to scare you off, as EMN has done the same.
A word of advice Rabid, if you don't have the spine for discussion. Then it's a good indicator that you don't actually belong here.

There, I gave you your chances and now I'm done with you.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Aww that's cute. You called me kid... if that doesn't explain just how ****ed you are when it comes to actual debate and matching up to your own BS. Then there isn't much else too really show just how deep this is for you.
You made a claim, a stupid one, but a claim none the less. And now that you've been asked to actually supply proof, you're going to keep showing your back on the issue, because you simply can't make it work in your favor.
I also addressed a part of the topic, that it was a Russian's perspective.. which shows that you're the one lacking in the reading ability here.

The funny part is that I'm the only one to scare you off, as EMN has done the same.
A word of advice Rabid, if you don't have the spine for discussion. Then it's a good indicator that you don't actually belong here.

There, I gave you your chances and now I'm done with you.

I skimmed this and didn't see any defense for the claims in the OP, or a rebuttal against any of my counter arguments to it. Glad you decided to stop wasting your time derailing and decided to go for a hike. Bye bye.

 

[Linc]

Expect to see more and more of the nonsense like what the OP brings to the table, it is all that is left for the OP and likeminded to justify war crimes.

from McCarthy’s kkk conference out of Florida; the QAnon GOPs actually chanting and cheering for PUTIN !!! That’s who will take the House next year.

 

[LostinThought]

I mean you’ve already admitted you were wrong by changing the timeline and earlier on you admitted that your reasoning is because Ukraine wasn’t part of the Russia because the Soviet Union isn’t Russia anx East Germany wasn’t part of Russia even though it was part of the Soviet Union. But East Germany was never part of the Soviet Union. So your admission now is you’re making up details to fit a narrative. Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, due its status as a region in the Russian empire. Only the far west of Ukraine was not part of the Russian empire, until world war 1 when it was taken by Russians from Austria-Hungary. In addition Kiev is the spiritual home of the Russian people as it was the seat of the Kievan Rus, where Rurik came from Scandinavia to lead the slavs, and where Prince Vladimir was baptized in order to marry Princess Anna of Constantinople. It’s thoroughly linked to Russia.

I think we should just wash our hands of Rabid. He's already talked himself into a corner, much like he usually does and is stuck in this idiotic defense.
Don't get me wrong, this is fun to watch, but I don't really think it's at all productive.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You refused to show that either so I tried to make it simpler for you to understand.


You've refused to show Ukraine being part of Russia within the past 100, or 200 years,

Well I unambiguously showed it to be part of Russia 200 years ago. Which you can’t even defend which is why you changed to 100 years

so stop pretending the number matters.

Well it matters enough you changed it.

How many hundreds of years after the confederacy declared independence did the Civil War start? 100? 200? Similar situations right?

It wasn’t 200 or 100 with Ukraine either.

Russia and Ukraine were both part of the USSR

The SSSR (which by the by, did not include East Germany) was governed from Moscow and was the successor state to the Russian empire. The Ukraine was merely a region within the SSSR

and the USSR stopped existing in 91, so about 31 years ago. Even if one accepted your ridiculous assertion that USSR and Russia are synonyms, 31 years of delay to start a "Civil War" is ridiculous.

There can be many reasons to delay a war 31 years, but now we’re at the truth, which is 31 and not 200 years as you originally claimed.

 

[LostinThought]

Well I unambiguously showed it to be part of Russia 200 years ago. Which you can’t even defend which is why you changed to 100 years

Well it matters enough you changed it.

It wasn’t 200 or 100 with Ukraine either.

The SSSR (which by the by, did not include East Germany) was governed from Moscow and was the successor state to the Russian empire. The Ukraine was merely a region within the SSSR

There can be many reasons to delay a war 31 years, but now we’re at the truth, which is 31 and not 200 years as you originally claimed.

Ouch man... just, ouch.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Well I unambiguously showed it to be part of Russia 200 years ago. Which you can’t even defend which is why you changed to 100 years

Well it matters enough you changed it.

It wasn’t 200 or 100 with Ukraine either.

The SSSR (which by the by, did not include East Germany) was governed from Moscow and was the successor state to the Russian empire. The Ukraine was merely a region within the SSSR

There can be many reasons to delay a war 31 years, but now we’re at the truth, which is 31 and not 200 years as you originally claimed.

You had to go 200 years back to show a time when Ukraine was part of Russia and haven't been able to show anything since. Your attempt to claim that the USSR and Russia are the same thing is a pathetic attempt to try to claim Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and all the other former soviet satellites should belong to Russia today.

Russia really should invest in better trolls, you're doing a terrible job.

I think we should just wash our hands of Rabid. He's already talked himself into a corner, much like he usually does and is stuck in this idiotic defense.
Don't get me wrong, this is fun to watch, but I don't really think it's at all productive.

If you can't defend or address the OP in any meaningful way I'm not sure why you're here.

You attempt to distract and derail because you know the idiotic statements in the OP are untenable.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You had to go 200 years back to show a time when Ukraine was part of Russia and haven't been able to show anything since. Your attempt to claim that the USSR and Russia are the same thing is a pathetic attempt to try to claim Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and all the other former soviet satellites should belong to Russia today.

Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are not the subject of the article. I’m not sure about their specific history in regards to Russia although I think Lithuania was never an integral part of the Russian state, like Ukraine was until 1991. And yes the Soviet Union was the Russian empire under communist rebranding. You are now trying to argue the Soviet Union was its own organic creation that just so happened to envelop Russia and the Ukraine?

This is applying American ignorance of being a people nominally governed under the same constitution since 1791 and trying to apply it to a civilization that traces its existence to a pagan king named Rurik in 9th century

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Ouch man... just, ouch.

His stupid statements really do hurt, don't they?

Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are not the subject of the article. I’m not sure about their specific history in regards to Russia although I think Lithuania was never an integral part of the Russian state, like Ukraine was until 1991. And yes the Soviet Union was the Russian empire under communist rebranding. You are now trying to argue the Soviet Union was its own organic creation that just so happened to envelop Russia and the Ukraine?

Of course you're not here to talk about any of the other USSR satellite states as that would require admitting Russia has no legitimate claim to any of the others either like Estonia.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm claiming. The USSR and Russia are not the same thing, if they were, it would be the USSR still existing today with the dozen or so countries within it and not just some third world Russian state with the GDP per capita of Ecuador.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You refused to show that either so I tried to make it simpler for you to understand.


You've refused to show Ukraine being part of Russia within the past 100, or 200 years, so stop pretending the number matters. How many hundreds of years after the confederacy declared independence did the Civil War start? 100? 200? Similar situations right?

And given there is no real unique ukranian history apart from Russia, the confederate example applies more than you think. Kiev was the spiritual home of Russia and the Russian people, imagine a Northern Rump United States seperate from the land of its founding, which was in Roanoke Virginia, seperate from the land of its early presidents and the “father of the country” George Washington, and instead of governing the society from the city built in his honor, it’s governed from New York or Philadelphia, that would leave a traumatic mark on the US if the Confederates succeeded and I think the US would eventually retake the south when they could, whether the south wanted to be retaken or not. It certainly was not a democratic process wjen the US retook the south.