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Russian Arctic Build Up

Litwin said:
not just outer Manchuria belongs to the China , the hans´ maps calls Lake Baikal for our great northern sea , Mao said about it even to Koba,

" The Nine Comments also claimed that in 1954.... He reminded them that over the last hundred years, Russia had seized the area east of Lake Baikal from China and that the Chinese had still not "billed" Russia for it. Thus, by 1963, Sino-Soviet relations were very bad indeed. (4) "

new just look at GDP of 2 countries and this picture :
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Lake Baikal that was taken 1628–58 in the Russian conquest of Siberia?

North of Mongolia.

That was never part of China?
 
calamity said:
Yes, China is not at all happy with that outcome. It's only a matter of time before they do something about it.
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yes, from Think - Tank Caspian rapport 9:50
 
tecoyah said:
They need them and we don't, so it makes sense. The United States does not have Icebound ports.
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i think USA has 1
For the First Time in 26 Years, a US Polar Icebreaker Is ...
https://www.military.com › daily-news › 2020/10/30



30 Oct 2020 — The Coast Guard Ice Breaker Polar Star working an ice channel. ... said Vice Adm. Linda Fagan, U.S. Coast Guard Pacific Area commander. ... of Ranger School · At 53, I Took the Tough New Army Combat Fitness Test.

and
Six New Icebreakers To Be Built For Canadian Coast Guard
https://news.usni.org › Budget Industry



13 Aug 2019 — The Canadian Coast Guard will be procuring six new program icebreakers to replace its ... Coast Guard program icebreakers are essential to Canada's economy by ... Putin: Increase Russia's Military Presence in the Arctic.
 
Fledermaus said:
Racist rhetoric and fantasy history and geography?

As long as Litwin responds, yes.
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I usually ignore stuff that doesn't fit the context. But, whatever. It's just annoying to see the same crap show up in every damned Russian thread.
 
Fledermaus said:
I'll step out then.

Have a good one.
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I'd rather you use your military knowledge and historical perspective by contributing to the thread and providing an experienced take on the advantage the Russians currently have over the US in the Arctic. Some insight on the new Russian weapons and the failure of the US to compete in the icy waters is what I am looking for in this thread.
 
Putin and his gang believe that the future of Moscow empire is in Arctic region , Thats why Canada and Norway are first in the line for Moscow aggression , and NATO and USA know it " 650 Marines staging a recent joint military exercise with 3,000 soldiers from NATO-member Norway at a time when both NATO and Russia have increased their military presence in the Arctic. "....

widerimage.reuters.com

On Norway's border with Russia, unease over military buildup

Under a soft winter sun in northern Norway, U.S. Marines train in the ice and snow as they learn how to fight in the freezing cold.
widerimage.reuters.com widerimage.reuters.com
"

Norway's worries about Moscow's intentions grew after Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 and then staged Arctic military exercises including maritime manoeuvres with ballistic missile capable vessels present.


"These were clear messages from Moscow," said Lieutenant-General Rune Jakobsen, Commander of the Norwegian Joint Headquarters -- the Norwegian Armed Forces operational command centre. "Do not be part of (NATO's) ballistic-missile defence."

"

The world is a scarier place for Norway - Science Norway
https://sciencenorway.no › ...



6 Dec 2019 — In a future where .... Russia are ever more offensive, Norway's position is weaker. Today's liberal world order is now also threatened .

"Muscovys Next Land Grab Won’t Be in an Ex-Soviet State. It Will Be in Europe.

Not many observers would consider the world’s coldest shipping lane a geopolitical hotspot. But that may be about to change. Last week, reports emerged that a new Kremlin policy will require all international naval ships to give Russia 45 days’ notice before entering the Northern Sea Route, which connects the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans via the Arctic waters north of Siberia. Every vessel on the route, where Russia has invested heavily in sophisticated military infrastructure, will also be required to have a Russian maritime pilot on board. Ships found in violation of these restrictions may be forcibly halted, detained, or—in unspecified “extreme” circumstances—“eliminated.”

The Kremlin’s.... “the more active naval operations in the Arctic of various foreign countries” require such a response."
This is the same tactic Russian President Vladimir Putin has used to justify his military adventurism for years: From Georgia in 2008, to Ukraine in 2014, to Syria in 2015, Putin has always laid the blame for Russian aggression squarely at the West’s feet. Kremlin-backed media outlets amplify this message, subjecting audiences to a constant deluge of scaremongering about “NATO encirclement” and pointing to the West’s condemnations of Putin’s actions as evidence of “Russophobia.”
Russia’s Next Land Grab Won’t Be in an Ex-Soviet State. It Will Be in Europe. – Foreign Policy


Muscovys Next Land Grab Won't Be in an Ex-Soviet State. It Will Be in Europe. Norway ?

great article , so what do you think which country will be the next one? could it be Norway ? "Muscovys Next Land Grab Won’t Be in an Ex-Soviet State. It Will Be in Europe. First he came for Georgia, then for Ukraine. Vladimir Putin’s next target is likely to be a non-NATO nation in the EU. Not...
debatepolitics.com debatepolitics.com
 
calamity said:
I'd rather you use your military knowledge and historical perspective by contributing to the thread and providing an experienced take on the advantage the Russians currently have over the US in the Arctic. Some insight on the new Russian weapons and the failure of the US to compete in the icy waters is what I am looking for in this thread.
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The reason Russia is a leader in Arctic operations is the same reason California is a leader in surfing.

Location, location, location.

We also tend to train to fight our last war...

Example the US Marines were jungle focused post Vietnam and had to scramble for desert gear to deploy to Kuwait/Iraq.

Afghanistan et al have consumed our resources and attention for quite some time.
 
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Fledermaus said:
The reason Russia is a leader in Arctic operations is the same reason California is a leader in surfing.

Location, location, location.
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Yeah, we'll need a lot of Canadian cooperation to even consider having a presence in the eastern Arctic. Alaska could serve as a good place to begin tooling up though.

We also tend to train to fight our last war...

Example the US Marines were jungle focused post Vietnam and had to scramble for desert gear to deploy to Kuwait/Iraq.

Afghanistan et al have consumed our resources and attention for quite some time.
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Great point. I never thought of it that way.
 
calamity said:
Yeah, we'll need a lot of Canadian cooperation to even consider having a presence in the eastern Arctic. Alaska could serve as a good place to begin tooling up though.

Great point. I never thought of it that way.
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One of the great things about allies like the Canadians and Brits (and others) is the sharing of assets and cooperative training....

I am glad our former commander if chief has vacated the White House so we can reestablish rapport with all of our allies.
 
Roadvirus said:
First the Missile gap
Then the Basselope gap.
And now the Icebreaker gap.

This is not good.
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Neither is a gap between the ears of military leadership good. Who actually thinks russia would start a war with the west?
 
bongsaway said:
Neither is a gap between the ears of military leadership good. Who actually thinks russia would start a war with the west?
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Most nations that start wars do not actively seek to "start a war". They try to press their advantages (or what they think are their advantages) and push too far. Not even Hitler figured his invasion of Poland would lead to war with France and England at that time. He figured they would simply make noise about it and then accept it, giving him at least a few more years to continue arming for a war at a time and place of his choosing.
 
bongsaway said:
Neither is a gap between the ears of military leadership good. Who actually thinks russia would start a war with the west?
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They will do as they have done for 75 years+. Push the envelope. And we will do the same. The chess game goes on.
 
Litwin said:
" China doesn't even have direct access to the Sea of Japan "
Vladivostok day unsettles China , Chinese diplomat stirs up old claims. my question : When the hans get back Vladivostok (currently under Moscow´s occuption) ? in 5 , 10 years ?

MANCHURIA-U.S.S.R_BOUNDARY_Ct002999.jpg

Vladivostok day unsettles China , Chinese diplomat stirs up old claims. my question : When the hans get back Vladivostok (currently under Moscow)?

Vladivostok day unsettles China , Chinese diplomat stirs up old claims. my question : When the hans get back Vladivostok (currently under Moscow´s occuption) ? in 5 , 10 years ? #VladivostokDay #Vladivostok #China
debatepolitics.com debatepolitics.com
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Again, there’s this little thing called “nukes” which means China has zero chance of “get back Vladivostok”.

It’s not 1941 anymore bud. Trying to carve territory off a country with vast numerous of nuclear weapons is simple idiocy.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Again, there’s this little thing called “nukes” which means China has zero chance of “get back Vladivostok”.

It’s not 1941 anymore bud. Trying to carve territory off a country with vast numerous of nuclear weapons is simple idiocy.
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Why does everyone simply assume that a nation (Russia) that has never used nuclear weapons in their history and that haven't been used anyway in three quarters of a century is so likely to use nuclear weapons?
 
Dayton3 said:
Why does everyone simply assume that a nation (Russia) that has never used nuclear weapons in their history and that haven't been used anyway in three quarters of a century is so likely to use nuclear weapons?
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Because you are talking about another country trying to annex core Russian territory, and because the entire point of nukes is to deter such hair brained schemes.

If a Chinese invasion force showed up in Los Angeles harbor and declared that they were taking back California the US would do the exact same thing.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Because you are talking about another country trying to annex core Russian territory, and because the entire point of nukes is to deter such hair brained schemes.

If a Chinese invasion force showed up in Los Angeles harbor and declared that they were taking back California the US would do the exact same thing.
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The U.S. could defeat any such invasion force without using nuclear weapons.
 
Dayton3 said:
Why does everyone simply assume that a nation (Russia) that has never used nuclear weapons in their history and that haven't been used anyway in three quarters of a century is so likely to use nuclear weapons?
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Moscow men can no do it, its Moscow´s main blackmail (of the west ) tool
screen-shot-2019-02-27-at-13-03-28-pm.png

"It's just scare tactics, attempts to throw the opponent off," Pavel Luzin, a defense industry expert at Russia's Perm State University, told CBS News in a phone interview. "The Kremlin is once again trying to make the West take it seriously and recognize its power, and the only leverage it has is military threats."
www.cbsnews.com

Russian TV touts missile targets in U.S. for hypothetical "vengeance," but does Russia want an arms race?

But analysts say Moscow's bravado is "just scare tactics," and while the collapse of a nuclear arms treaty may bring new missiles, Russia doesn't want a new arms race
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
 
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