Russia using inferior equipment.

[gino]

No, I don't support the invasion of the Ukraine by Russia. I don't know anyone who does.

My point is that Putin isn't an idiot. He has had YEARS to plan this invasion, ever since he invaded Crimea. Why would you think that he didn't work this out before he invaded? My guess is that as the rest of the world shuts him off, China is going to walk in and become Russia's largest trading partner. My guess is that China has enough economic power to help Russia overcome the rest of the world's economic sanctions.

My guess is that we haven't heard the other shoe drop yet.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Something is very odd odd about Russia's attack of Ukraine. It is well acknowledged that much of the equipment is old. It is also noted that many of the troops are outlying region states, specifically Chechnya and Dagestan. Also noted is the lack of air support. Why is this?
I think Putin has planned it this way for a reason. The main force is held in reserve. I think Putin planned on all of the sanctions and the blocked banking.

No doubt, Putin anticipated sanctions. Also no doubt, Putin didn’t anticipate the scale of outrage virtually every country has expressed and the level of sanctions being levied against him, his oligarch supporters, and his country’s citizens.

As for Putin’s “strategy”, I defer to every senior professional military officer that has publicly opined, saying the invasion was objectively very poorly planned.

Only Loser #45 and some of his most fervent followers have praised Putin’s “brilliance”.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

I think there might be something said that inferior troops and equipment were/are used in Ukraine by the Russians with the following purpose.

#1 Appear weak with the invasion to prompt NATO to react with direct support (i.e. combat troops, tanks, aircraft, etc.) to support Ukraine,

#2 Once NATO was directly engaged, then Putin could send large numbers of better trained and better equipped forces.


The justification would be based on NATOs escalation of a non-NATO event because Russia sent in "peacekeeping" forces.

WW

Makes no sense. Why would Putin want to draw NATO forces into the fight for Ukraine?
Doing so would only guarantee an even more humiliating defeat for him.

Putin is alone in his insane attempt to invade/capture Ukraine. No ridiculous attempt at playing the victim will garner assistance from other countries to help him.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Makes no sense. Why would Putin want to draw NATO forces into the fight for Ukraine?
Doing so would only guarantee an even more humiliating defeat for him.

Putin is alone in his insane attempt to invade/capture Ukraine. No ridiculous attempt at playing the victim will garner assistance from other countries to help him.

No sense to us. Which I agree.

WW

 

[VanceMack]

Russia (more appropriately, the USSR) was always guilty of showing the world one thing while their actual product was suspect. In the 70s and 80s we knew that many of the planes, tanks, and missile launch systems they had in plain site were not functional vehicles. We also knew that while they touted large numbers of Soldiers, they were usually poorly equipped, poorly trained, and often addicted. Since they couldnt pay their Soldiers in cash, often they were paid in alcohol rations. We had reports that their troops were continuously experimenting with new ways to get high. The Russian military effort in Afghanistan was also a big disappointment. Add to that the fact that a minority but still significant portion of their military is a conscripted workforce that is not overly meager to be there and it could go to explain the mission failure so far in Ukraine.

There are reports that things have changed, that their weapon systems are better and more modernized, and that their contract soldiers are staunch supporters of Putin. So far...we arent seeing that. But who knows if they have brought out the big guns yet or are just using people and equipment they see as expendable.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

There is no reason to think that Putin is an idiot. He is a successful politician in a system where they put weak politicians out quickly. He has to have expected that the western world would put sanctions against him, and what those sanctions would most likely be. So, I highly doubt that anything we have done in response to his invasion has been a surprise. To think differently would be underestimating him. One of the big questions is how well China is going to back up his play. There is a chance that China can help him out economically to enough of a degree that our sanctions are going to have minimal effect.

There is no reason to think that Putin hasn't already thought three steps ahead of us, and that things are actually going well for him.

You’re giving Putin far more credit than he deserves. Although his past successes do warrant consideration that he might have a longer range plan in mind, the facts present very strongly indicate the opposite.

No way Putin planned for, or could compensate for, the magnitude of penalties being levied against him/Russia by individual countries and world organizations, including huge bank accounts being frozen, property seized, unprecedented, crushing sanctions, banning all Russian aircraft from entering the EU, Canadian, and American airspace, etc.. More and more punishments coming each day.

Clearly, Putin but off much more than he can handle this time.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

No sense to us. Which I agree.

WW

Putin is, or was, a really smart guy. He isn’t the smartest guy or greatest tactician though.

Instead of focusing solely on the notion that Putin has some master plan for world domination, try looking at the whole picture of what’s happening.

 

[Gaius46]

No doubt, Putin anticipated sanctions. Also no doubt, Putin didn’t anticipate the scale of outrage virtually every country has expressed and the level of sanctions being levied against him, his oligarch supporters, and his country’s citizens.

As for Putin’s “strategy”, I defer to every senior professional military officer that has publicly opined, saying the invasion was objectively very poorly planned.

Only Loser #45 and some of his most fervent followers have praised Putin’s “brilliance”.

My thought is that Putin, being the paranoid that he is, cut much of the professional
military out of the planning and DIY’ed it himself.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

My thought is that Putin, being the paranoid that he is, cut much of the professional
military out of the planning and DIY’ed it himself.

A real possibility. Reminds me of the reply the late General Schwarzkopf gave to a reporter’s question regarding Saddam Hussein’s skills as a military strategist;
“As far as Saddam Hussein being a great military strategist," he said, "he is neither a strategist, nor is he schooled in the operational arts, nor is he a tactician, nor is he a general, nor is he a soldier.

"Other than that he's a great military man. I want you to know that."

 

[justoneman]

Makes no sense. Why would Putin want to draw NATO forces into the fight for Ukraine?
Doing so would only guarantee an even more humiliating defeat for him.

Putin is alone in his insane attempt to invade/capture Ukraine. No ridiculous attempt at playing the victim will garner assistance from other countries to help him.

Well one reason would be that his plan is to fight NATO. If this were so, Ukraine as the battlefield is better than Russia as a battlefield. Especially if he gets to be dug in. I don't think this is the plan but it is possible.it is possible that China is waiting for this time for it to act.

Or it could be that the forces are sacrificial in Ukraine and when NATO moves all its forces in Ukraine and are then engaged against dug in secondary force, the main Russian army goes north to Finland or the Baltic countries.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

All of the evidence points to an absolute faith in the invasion taking 2-3 days, thus the terrible supply line situation. Combine this with lack of vehicle maintenance and bad terrain and you’ve got yourself a disaster. As for “anticipating” the sanctions, there’s no reason to think this is true. By the way, the Russian stock exchange is down for the fourth day.

Apparently Putin expected all of this to be over in fifteen days.
Such decadence, such hubris!

 

[Craig234]

Something is very odd odd about Russia's attack of Ukraine. It is well acknowledged that much of the equipment is old. It is also noted that many of the troops are outlying region states, specifically Chechnya and Dagestan. Also noted is the lack of air support. Why is this?
I think Putin has planned it this way for a reason. The main force is held in reserve. I think Putin planned on all of the sanctions and the blocked banking.

I've been wondering about the oddities also but most seem to have explanations as mistakes, incompetence, low morale and so on.

But they're saying some of the captured soldiers are just cadets, and some saying they were not told they were going to combat, etc.

 

[Cardinal]

Apparently Putin expected all of this to be over in fifteen days.
Such decadence, such hubris!

View attachment 67378034

See, that still surprises me because a fifteen day war, ridiculous as that may sound, still doesn't account for the terribly supply line issue. If reports are to be believed...and I have to think they're at least based in truth because they're so consistent...troops don't have enough fuel, food and water. That makes partial sense if you're expecting a three day war, but preparations for a two week war would reveal far more preparations than we've seen.

 

[Questerr]

No, I don't support the invasion of the Ukraine by Russia. I don't know anyone who does.

My point is that Putin isn't an idiot. He has had YEARS to plan this invasion, ever since he invaded Crimea. Why would you think that he didn't work this out before he invaded? My guess is that as the rest of the world shuts him off, China is going to walk in and become Russia's largest trading partner. My guess is that China has enough economic power to help Russia overcome the rest of the world's economic sanctions.

My guess is that we haven't heard the other shoe drop yet.

Putin assumed the invasion was going to be Taliban takeover of Afghanistan 2.0: Zelensky would flee the country at the first sign of danger, most of the Ukrainian military would throw down their weapons and desert, the Russian army would waltz right in and then only have to deal with mopping up the handful of Ukrainian military holdouts that refused to run away.

 

[WillyPete]

Something is very odd odd about Russia's attack of Ukraine. It is well acknowledged that much of the equipment is old. It is also noted that many of the troops are outlying region states, specifically Chechnya and Dagestan. Also noted is the lack of air support. Why is this?
I think Putin has planned it this way for a reason. The main force is held in reserve. I think Putin planned on all of the sanctions and the blocked banking.

Who knows, it's not impossible.

In the Cold War days, there were talks of their defense in depth strategy for conventional fights, where they planned to throw up massive defensive positions with inferior troops, to draw out our most powerful weapons, and then react with their best troops.

It might just be a reflection of Putin's paranoia, also.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Trump's "genius" at work.

 

[mrjurrs]

Something is very odd odd about Russia's attack of Ukraine. It is well acknowledged that much of the equipment is old. It is also noted that many of the troops are outlying region states, specifically Chechnya and Dagestan. Also noted is the lack of air support. Why is this?
I think Putin has planned it this way for a reason. The main force is held in reserve. I think Putin planned on all of the sanctions and the blocked banking.

Inferior military would not be a first for Russia. The inferiority of the USSR military was exposed after the Cuban Missile Crisis as well. That resulted in a massive military buildup on both sides. The key difference between then and now? Russian economy is in even worse shape today.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I have not followed the invasion very much

Has there been any large scale battles between Russian and Ukrainian forces? The Ukrainian military has the same manpower has the forces Russia was said to have gathered, but with fewer tanks, armoured vehicles and aircraft. I do not recall seeing any reports of mass battles defending cities or strategic locations

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Well one reason would be that his plan is to fight NATO. If this were so, Ukraine as the battlefield is better than Russia as a battlefield. Especially if he gets to be dug in. I don't think this is the plan but it is possible.it is possible that China is waiting for this time for it to act.

Or it could be that the forces are sacrificial in Ukraine and when NATO moves all its forces in Ukraine and are then engaged against dug in secondary force, the main Russian army goes north to Finland or the Baltic countries.

Why would Putin want to draw NATO into a war that he couldn’t possibly win?

NATO forces vastly outnumber and outclass Russia’s in every single area, except in number of nuclear weapons (NATO has 6,065 nuclear weapons while Russia alone has 6,255), which is irrelevant in that both have far more killing power than would be required to guarantee mutually assured destruction.

Number of military personnel in NATO countries 2023 | Statista

The United States has the largest military force among NATO members, with significantly more manpower than the next-largest NATO militaries.

www.statista.com

Sure, China would love to come after to pick up the pieces, if any survived, but has no interest in joining Russia’s fight now.

Again, makes no sense.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Putin assumed the invasion was going to be Taliban takeover of Afghanistan 2.0: Zelensky would flee the country at the first sign of danger, most of the Ukrainian military would throw down their weapons and desert, the Russian army would waltz right in and then only have to deal with mopping up the handful of Ukrainian military holdouts that refused to run away.

I agree. Putin very seriously misjudged the Ukrainian peoples willingness to fight for their country, and greatly underestimated the response the rest of the world would have to his unprovoked attack on a neighbor sovereign country.

 

[StillBallin75]

I don't think we're playing 3D chess here, Putin and his army just aren't that good, don't think we need to overthink it.

They've been holding back, sure, and we might be able to enter the phase of the war where he just starts bombing and artying the shit out of everything. That will be a tacit admission that his original strategy of a lightning-quick blitzkrieg didn't work, so he'll resort to what the Russian Army knows best, which is absolute brutality, which we've witnessed in Chechnya (twice) and Syria.

 

[justoneman]

Why would Putin want to draw NATO into a war that he couldn’t possibly win?

NATO forces vastly outnumber and outclass Russia’s in every single area, except in number of nuclear weapons (NATO has 6,065 nuclear weapons while Russia alone has 6,255), which is irrelevant in that both have far more killing power than would be required to guarantee mutually assured destruction.

Number of military personnel in NATO countries 2023 | Statista

The United States has the largest military force among NATO members, with significantly more manpower than the next-largest NATO militaries.

www.statista.com

Sure, China would love to come after to pick up the pieces, if any survived, but has no interest in joining Russia’s fight now.

Again, makes no sense.

How about Russia and China and not Russia then China?

 

[Deuce]

It's like Putin's generals read a couple paragraphs describing the Nazi 'blitzkrieg' tactics from WW2 and took away "go fast," and that's all, and then tried to repeat the plan. In doing so, they seem to have done absolutely everything wrong.



-Instead of using well-trained frontline troops they sent conscripts, some of whom seem to be entirely untrained. I've seen stories of captured conscripted soldiers talking about how they basically weren't even
told they were going to Ukraine. So, you end up with invasion troops who have no tactical skill at all. The Nazis trained all of their troops a rank higher than they actually held. This both helped them expand their army more rapidly and made their troops more capable of handling combat losses, not to mention just a general increase in competence.

-The frontline officers seem similarly undertrained. They're using armor in all the wrong ways. Funneling down narrow roads with essentially no infantry support. This will get you through the countryside, but urban warfare is a tactical nightmare this way.

-They obviously did not plan for a protracted war. They're barely keeping gas in the tanks and I'm starting to wonder if they're out of guided weapons.

-NOT A REAL GOOD TIME OF YEAR TO FIGHT A GROUND WAR IN EASTERN EUROPE, GUYS, I FEEL LIKE WE'VE BEEN OVER THIS A COUPLE TIMES IN HISTORY. Sure, it's not dead of winter anymore but the muddy terrain is making full on main battle tanks just get stuck. Tanks. The war machine designed to handle terrain can't handle terrain this bad. This adds to the tactical problems previously mentioned, for any kind of mobility the invaders are stuck coming down roads, making their movements far more restricted and far more predictable.

-Blitzkrieg tactics rely on good communications and tactical flexibility, the Germans in WW2 had junior field officers empowered to change the axis of attack when they found weaker or stronger opposition, they could make these decisions quickly with better communications networks than what the allies had at the time. I've seen plenty to indicate the Russian forces have poor communications ability, to the point of using civilian equipment off the shelf of a Russian Radio Shack. I don't know much about their command structure, but I'm gonna take a wild ass guess that Russian field officers aren't as empowered as the Nazis had them.

-Failure to account for the changing modern battlefield. Portable antitank and antiaircraft weapons have become more effective and reliable. They clearly underestimated the impact.

 

[Deuce]

How about Russia and China and not Russia then China?

China is not going to get into a shooting war with NATO or the United States, they don't benefit from shooting at their biggest customers.

 

[justoneman]

China is not going to get into a shooting war with NATO or the United States, they don't benefit from shooting at their biggest customers.

China is not going to get into a shooting war with NATO or the United States, they don't benefit from shooting at their biggest customers.

China would not be fighting NATO. It would be invading Taiwan and any county coming to its defence. I guess that would be Japan and the USA.