This behavior by Russia was long foreseeable - we'd been antagonizing Russia for quite some time, so now they're hitting back.
It just goes to show how unbeneficial and contrary to US national interest it is to fruitlessly pursue confrontation with Russia, when we need them in order to deal with vital problems.
All Dems/Libs care about is saying "AHA! RUSSIA!"
But what we're seeing Russia doing today would not be happening if we'd taken a different course with them. Now we're simply reaping what we've sown.
And before that Bush-43 for 8 years? And before that Clinton for 8 years? And before that Reagan/Bush-41 for 12 years, especially 1989? And before that Carter for 4 years? And before that Nixon/Ford for 8 years? And before that JFK/LBJ for 8 years? And before that Ike for 8 years, especially starting in 1956; too bad NK doesn't have administrative overlap, they could be like U.S.
What did trump do about NK at the G19 + one ****up?
How about Russia cooperating with trump on their UN veto ?
And, pray tell, would you like him to do on both issues?
No, I didn't miss it. It wasn't the focus of your post, and I responded to the focus of your post.
I like how the proposition of war is less important to you than the failure of the US Government and President Trump.
Objective Voice said:If I didn't fear what the immediate future might hold for our country and the world...
We've got to this point because Obama did nothing for eight years.
OTOH pushing a tiger into a corner with increased sanctions may actually backfire. We cut Japan off of their oil supplies and ended up with Pearl Harbor.
I say let him have his nukes but counter that with two things:
1. Assure him he will become a glass parking lot if he fires one off at us.
2. Continue to work on our antiballistic missiles to make them 100 % accurate. We can do it.
There really is no other option beside all out war and 20 million casualties in SK in the first hour.
I believe he wants nukes to protect himself from us even though he's not justified and paranoid. Historicially it's hands off to countries with nukes.
The only way to stop a bad leader with nukes is a good leader with nukes.
NK is a complex and perhaps intractable problem.
Russia? At the very least to not ignore or consider rewarding (returning Russian compounds) aggressive Russian behavior.
Clearly, you also missed this part of my post:
Reading comprehension, folks.
Your one line doesn't eliminate the 10 lines prior.
The above paragraph is one of the most well thought out and intellectually honest posts I've read of yours. This is the type post we need more of on DP. I do not disagree with the point you make above.Very well, then.
The focus of my commentary here has been to point out how our #45 POTUS has been out-maneuvered by his #1 geo-political rival (who many believe is his :censored). Instead of coming before the U.N. with concrete, irrefutable evidence that NKor has conducted an ICBM test capable of carrying a nuclear warhead and launched against the U.S. and/or it's allies, he came with a proposal to impose broader economic sanctions against them with the intention on garnering multi-lateral support. But Russia blocked his efforts. Putin basically said, "Show me proof or you've got nothing." And Pres. Trump backed down. This despite all his bluster about taking a hardline against NKor if they launched another such missile test directed at the U.S.
Based on the previous paragraph, and your honest concern to not be thought of that way, I agree that I was wrong. However, since we're being honest here, I would hope you can see why I would have gotten that impression from the level of snark and crassness of your OP. All I had to go off of was your own words and the impression they portrayed - written words lack emotion and cannot portray sarcasm.Now, I understand your criticism despite your incorrect characterization of me not being concerned about the potential outbreak of war between NKor and the U.S. and its allies (SKor and Japan being the potential targets for a short-range assault). Your wrong on that point entirely!
Bush and Obama were played by Putin, and now Trump appears to be as well. Putin's actions over the last 17 years in Georgia, the Crimea, eastern Ukraine, and other areas are almost identical to the northern, southern, and western areas of Czechoslovakia (Sudetenland) which were inhabited primarily by ethnic German speakers and the entire nation of Austria (Anschluss) in 1938/1939.Still, I feel compelled to remind you that when it was Obama in the White House and Syria allegedly crossed his red line it was Putin who challenged him then as well. Moreover, there were concerns about the potential outbreak of war then, too, only it was Republicans who largely called Obama out for being outplayed by Putin. So, I suppose this is your tit-for-tat moment.
Obama wasn't blindsided, he was just blind, as was demonstrated when he made the smartass/dumbass comment to Romney in the debate when Romney said Russia is the most dangerous geo-political threat to the US and Obama said the '80's called and wanted their foreign policy back.You could say Obama, like Trump, blundered on the world stage. The difference, however, is Obama's came via media reports to which the world came to know of it piece-meal,
Yup.whereas, Trump got outmaneuvered on the world stage by world leaders.
Kerry got his pecker handed to him by the Russians, the Iranians, and succeeded in alienating the only democratic ME country to where they hated Kerry and Obama. Clinton, with ALL of her IR screw-ups, all-in-all, did a great job as SecState compared to Kerry.Neither handed their respective situations very well initially, but at least Obama (via his Sec of State, Kerry) was able to work with the Russian (and Syrian) government(s) to find a solution to their mutual problem.
I don't hold much hope of that, but if he allows his IR cabinet members (SecState, SecDef, SecComm, etc.) to guide him, the US can not only survive his Presidency, but may be able turn some things around. We have a cease-fire in parts of Syria that has held for 5 days so far - something that hasn't succeeded before now. I have great hopes, but I'm not going to lay any bets right now either way.Only time will tell if Trump can find his.
Let me ask you something...
When did North Korea really become so antagonistic towards the U.S.? Did it just happen during Obama's presidency or did it begin several years (and, thus, 2 or 3 Presidents) before?
When you figure that out, let me know. Meanwhile, you can stop blaming Obama any day now. This is now Pres. Trump's problem to resolve. Let's see how he handles it.
How about when you guys held Obama totally blameless?
If Obama can blame Bush for 8 years, why can't Trump blame Obama?
I am asking seriously. Why does blame jump over Obamas 8 years here?
The above paragraph is one of the most well thought out and intellectually honest posts I've read of yours. This is the type post we need more of on DP. I do not disagree with the point you make above.
Based on the previous paragraph, and your honest concern to not be thought of that way, I agree that I was wrong. However, since we're being honest here, I would hope you can see why I would have gotten that impression from the level of snark and crassness of your OP. All I had to go off of was your own words and the impression they portrayed - written words lack emotion and cannot portray sarcasm. Bush and Obama were played by Putin, and now Trump appears to be as well. Putin's actions over the last 17 years in Georgia, the Crimea, eastern Ukraine, and other areas are almost identical to the northern, southern, and western areas of Czechoslovakia (Sudetenland) which were inhabited primarily by ethnic German speakers and the entire nation of Austria (Anschluss) in 1938/1939.
Obama wasn't blindsided, he was just blind, as was demonstrated when he made the smartass/dumbass comment to Romney in the debate when Romney said Russia is the most dangerous geo-political threat to the US and Obama said the '80's called and wanted their foreign policy back. Yup. Kerry got his pecker handed to him by the Russians, the Iranians, and succeeded in alienating the only democratic ME country to where they hated Kerry and Obama. Clinton, with ALL of her IR screw-ups, all-in-all, did a great job as SecState compared to Kerry. I don't hold much hope of that, but if he allows his IR cabinet members (SecState, SecDef, SecComm, etc.) to guide him, the US can not only survive his Presidency, but may be able turn some things around. We have a cease-fire in parts of Syria that has held for 5 days so far - something that hasn't succeeded before now. I have great hopes, but I'm not going to lay any bets right now either way.
BTW, thanks for a respectable and good conversation.
I'm not saying one should hold him blameless. However, what I am saying is our problems with North Korea didn't start with Obama's presidency. So, people should stop acting is if they did.
That said, what you're seeing (or should begin to realize) is Trump won't take any heavier hand against NKor than Obama did against them. He'll quickly discover that unless he can garner multi-lateral support (mostly from China, Japan, SKor and maybe Russia), he'll do nothing militarily against them. This is why he's "reached out" to China in an attempt to get them to put pressure on NKor. He knows like Obama came to realize that short of a global or regional boycott of shipments in or out of the country OR all out war, economic sanctions is the only play he has. However, he won't even go that route unless he can get other nations besides SKor on his side and China won't stick their neck out for us. You can forget that.
I don't expect Pres. Trump to fair any better against NKor by trying to squeeze them further. His only other recourse is one the U.S. hasn't tried yet and that is to give alittle. But like Israel won't yield to hostile aggression from the Muslim world, the U.S will not yield to NKor as long as it continues its threats against us. Stalemate! Whose willing to give alittle first?
From WorldNews.com:
Source: https://article.wn.com/view/2017/07/06/Russia_Uses_Veto_To_Block_UN_Statement_Seeking_Further_North/
I only have three things to say about this:
1. Russia has all but boxed the U.S. into a corner effectively tying our hands on dealing with NKor in a bilateral way via the U.N. General Assembly. In short, Putin (Russia) at best has punked Trump (U.S.) and at least just made him his b...:censored.
2. Remember all that tough talk Trump did before he became POTUS where he claimed that the economic sanctions former President's Clinton and Obama imposed on NKor in their efforts to stop them from testing long-range ballistic missiles or getting a nuclear weapon amounted to nothing more than a slap on the risk? Well, look whose trying to impose more economic sanctions on NKor? For all his "Mr. Tough-Guy" bravado, Pres. Trump is trying to do the exact same thing he blasted his Democratic predecessors for doing. Even worse, he's sought the assistance from two other major players on the world stage, i.e., China and Japan, to help put NKor in check.
3. What makes things even worse is Russia and China via the U.N. Security Counsel are now calling on a freeze for NKor to stop all missile testing and for the U.S. and SKor to halt all military drills. (Source: https://article.wn.com/view/2017/07/04/Russia_China_call_for_freeze_on_North_Korea_missile_tests_US/)
Talk about entering the U.N. General Assembly from a weak position! If I didn't fear what the immediate future might hold for our country and the world, I'd be :2rofll: :2funny:.
Why is it that every left leaning person now can see the future?
Why don't you wait for something to happen in order to comment on it rather than tell us what you think will happen in the future?
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