Russia Says They Will End Ukraine War on These Four Conditions

[HIP56948]

Seems those demands are letting Putin off way too easily. Putin allowed innocent civilians to be murdered.
I keep thinking of the Frog and Scorpion story. ( Sorry..I can't help myself..I'm a scorpion.)

 

[Jay Falcon]

Not really. According to the UN, the Ukranian military killed 5,000 civilians during the Donbas War. And so far there have been no repercussions for that. That is what Putin is talking about when he says that Ukraine has been committing genocide.

You're a Putin mouthpiece now? How horrible.

 

[iguanaman]

It really makes me wonder why anyone in our intelligence community didn't see this war coming? Let me rephrase, I wonder why people didn't listen to those in the intelligence community that saw this war coming? Remember when the USSR put missiles in Cuba? And what our response was? That was 90 miles from the US. Imagine they had put them on the border of Mexico and the US? Do you think we'd stand for it? This war could easily have averted.

There are no US nukes in Ukraine. So the war should never have happened. This war is about Russian expansionism not security. Our submarines alone have enough nukes to turn every city in Russia to glass. Also the Cuban missile crisis was in the early 1960's and our tech was not nearly where it is today,

 

[Jkca1]

There are no US nukes in Ukraine. So the war should never have happened. This war is about Russian expansionism not security. Our submarines alone have enough nukes to turn every city in Russia to glass. Also the Cuban missile crisis was in the early 1960's and our tech was not nearly where it is today,

It's not about nukes. It's about the threat of having missiles and troops on your borders. Why would anyone expect Russia to be different. Damn, a dozen Cubans setup shop in Granada and did we let it go? Did we and do we still about what goes on in South and Central America? Of course. As early as the beginning of the 20th century we setup a hands off policy;

" President Theodore Roosevelt then added the “Roosevelt Corollary” to the Monroe Doctrine: “in the Western Hemisphere the adherence of the United States to the Monroe Doctrine may force the United States, however reluctantly, in flagrant cases of wrongdoing or impotence, to exercise an international police power.”23 Thus American policy in Latin America, at the beginning of the 20th century, explicitly justified unilateral intervention, military occupation, and transformation of sovereign states into political and economic protectorates in order to defend them against European interventions that might threaten U.S. national interests and security."

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The situation is more complex than that. Ukraine was part of Russia for centuries and didn’t gain independence until the 1980s. The Ukranian people are not a monolithic entity and there are plenty who prefer to be independent from Ukraine and align with Russia. I don’t know how you tell the people of the Donbas region for example that they don’t have a right to self-determination.

OF COURSE they do - PROVIDED that they want to be independent on OUR side.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

It's not about nukes. It's about the threat of having missiles and troops on your borders. Why would anyone expect Russia to be different. Damn, a dozen Cubans setup shop in Granada and did we let it go? Did we and do we still about what goes on in South and Central America? Of course. As early as the beginning of the 20th century we setup a hands off policy;

" President Theodore Roosevelt then added the “Roosevelt Corollary” to the Monroe Doctrine: “in the Western Hemisphere the adherence of the United States to the Monroe Doctrine may force the United States, however reluctantly, in flagrant cases of wrongdoing or impotence, to exercise an international police power.”23 Thus American policy in Latin America, at the beginning of the 20th century, explicitly justified unilateral intervention, military occupation, and transformation of sovereign states into political and economic protectorates in order to defend them against European interventions that might threaten U.S. national interests and security."

What everyone appears to forget is that the Russians have a deep national fear of being encircled, attacked, and destroyed. That fear did NOT start in the 1950s, or the 1900s, or the 1850s, or the 1800s, or the 1750s, or the 1700s, or the 1600s, or even the 1500s.

The way that the US government dealt with the Russians' culturally instilled fear was (after 1946) to encircle them, threaten to attack them, and demonize them as a nation that had to be destroyed.

This, of course, calmed the Russians down totally and they naturally treated the US government as a benevolent entity - right?

BTW, if it is OK for the US to "unilaterally intervene, militarily occupy, and transform sovereign states into political and economic protectorates" in order to protect (what the US government defines as) US national interests and security then why is it NOT OK for Russia to "unilaterally intervene, militarily occupy, and transform sovereign states into political and economic protectorates" in order to protect (what the Russian government defines as) Russian national interests and security?

 

[WillyPete]

This amounts to him asking Ukraine if it's had enough, when that is the question they need to be asking themselves.

There are people in that region I care about, but if it's that or give in to these terrorist demands, they can all cook.

No solution where Putin is rewarded for his behavior is acceptable.

 

[maxparrish]

If this is true it sounds like putin has changed his mind about this war.

I don't know if Ukraine will accept the conditions.

From the article:

In an interview with Reuters, Peskov said that Russia could "end war immediately" if Ukraine agrees to sign a neutrality agreement that would bar it from entering NATO, recognizes Crimea as Russian and the separatist regions of Luhansk and Donetsk as independent, and ceases all military action.

MSN

 

[Lutherf]

If this is true it sounds like putin has changed his mind about this war.

I don't know if Ukraine will accept the conditions.

From the article:

In an interview with Reuters, Peskov said that Russia could "end war immediately" if Ukraine agrees to sign a neutrality agreement that would bar it from entering NATO, recognizes Crimea as Russian and the separatist regions of Luhansk and Donetsk as independent, and ceases all military action.

MSN

As BG McAuliffe said way back in 1944, "Nuts".

 

[MaryP]

Why have we heard nothing back from Ukraine?

 

[Mycroft]

If this is true it sounds like putin has changed his mind about this war.

I don't know if Ukraine will accept the conditions.

From the article:

In an interview with Reuters, Peskov said that Russia could "end war immediately" if Ukraine agrees to sign a neutrality agreement that would bar it from entering NATO, recognizes Crimea as Russian and the separatist regions of Luhansk and Donetsk as independent, and ceases all military action.

MSN

That's all they've ever wanted.

Ukraine should take the deal.

Of course, the Biden pukes won't go along with it because they need a boogyman to keep their GND efforts going.

 

[maxparrish]

Counterproposal: Russia must change its constitution to secure:

Demilitarization (aka Japan post WWII)
Denazification of current leadership, submit leadership to war crimes trials
Denazification by firing all former KGB agents from state jobs
Return all occupied lands to borders of 1938
Finnish territory
Polish territory
Kalingrad to Germany
Kurile Islands returned to Japan
Georgian territory
Withdraw from all occupied territories
Pay for all war damages to Ukraine
Pay for all war damages to Georgia
Pay for the murder of millions in Holodomor
Hold free and fair elections in Russia
Replace all school history and political curriculum with truth about Russia.
Surrender all nuclear weapons

OR

Shove a grenade up Putin's ass and pull the pin.

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You're a Putin mouthpiece now? How horrible.

He always was!

 

[maxparrish]

Why have we heard nothing back from Ukraine?

Because it takes time and requires negotiation.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The situation is more complex than that. Ukraine was part of Russia for centuries and didn’t gain independence until the 1980s. The Ukranian people are not a monolithic entity and there are plenty who prefer to be independent from Ukraine and align with Russia. I don’t know how you tell the people of the Donbas region for example that they don’t have a right to self-determination.

Amnesia about Holodomor is a huge "tell".
By the way, your clock no longer tells the correct time and hasn't for forty years.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Russia seems to want out.

I watching the history of Putin's antics, and he has never really had this kind of push back before Biden. Biden is really after his ass, and he's probably a bit shocked. Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump all did very little, and still worked with him with a smile on their face.
Biden has rallied everyone against him, and these are the most sever sanctions ever given.

So, he might want out.

 

[VanceMack]

I think the correct response is 'Go **** yourself'...followed by "AFTER you withdraw, we'll talk." Russia has no business dictating to anyone, anything, and certainly not as a term of their ending an unprovoked war.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Counterproposal: Russia must change its constitution to secure:

Demilitarization (aka Japan post WWII)
Denazification of current leadership, submit leadership to war crimes trials
Denazification by firing all former KGB agents from state jobs
Return all occupied lands to borders of 1938
Finnish territory
Polish territory
Kalingrad to Germany
Kurile Islands returned to Japan
Georgian territory
Withdraw from all occupied territories
Pay for all war damages to Ukraine
Pay for all war damages to Georgia
Pay for the murder of millions in Holodomor
Hold free and fair elections in Russia
Replace all school history and political curriculum with truth about Russia.
Surrender all nuclear weapons

OR

Shove a grenade up Putin's ass and pull the pin.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Had to LIKE your post but I am rather pessimistic about any hopes for the above.
Still, well done.
I take back what I said a few weeks ago...still think you should maybe dial back the anti-state stuff but hey, your opinion is as sacred to you as mine is to me.

 

[Ginger Ale]

It's not about nukes. It's about the threat of having missiles and troops on your borders. Why would anyone expect Russia to be different. Damn, a dozen Cubans setup shop in Granada and did we let it go? Did we and do we still about what goes on in South and Central America? Of course. As early as the beginning of the 20th century we setup a hands off policy;

" President Theodore Roosevelt then added the “Roosevelt Corollary” to the Monroe Doctrine: “in the Western Hemisphere the adherence of the United States to the Monroe Doctrine may force the United States, however reluctantly, in flagrant cases of wrongdoing or impotence, to exercise an international police power.”23 Thus American policy in Latin America, at the beginning of the 20th century, explicitly justified unilateral intervention, military occupation, and transformation of sovereign states into political and economic protectorates in order to defend them against European interventions that might threaten U.S. national interests and security."

Facebook is full of loons. I wouldn't base your ideas on it. I've seen that guy, saying the same on there.

This is 2022, if Ukrainians wan't to be free, join NATO and the UN, they can. If Putin see's that as a threat, that's because he just knows it will be much more difficult to take out Ukraine if they have help to defend themselves. He's still a wack job.

 

[maxparrish]

Had to LIKE your post but I am rather pessimistic about any hopes for the above.
Still, well done.
I take back what I said a few weeks ago...still think you should maybe dial back the anti-state stuff but hey, your opinion is as sacred to you as mine is to me.

Tell you what. I'll change my avatar as a nod to your gracious comment.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

That's all they've ever wanted.

Ukraine should take the deal.

Of course, the Biden pukes won't go along with it because they need a boogyman to keep their GND efforts going.

Well, I wouldn't say "all they've ever wanted", but you do have to admit that Ukraine would be getting rid of a lot of ethnic Russians who don't actually want to be Ukrainians.

As far as NOT being a part of NATO and being "neutral", if that was couple with "free trade/travel status" in BOTH directions with both blocs (NATO/EU <--> Ukraine and Ukraine <-->Russian Federation) - Russians would be able to enter and leave Ukraine freely. Ukrainians would be able to enter and leave both the NATO/EU bloc and the RF bloc freely. People from the EU/NATO bloc would be able to enter and leave Ukraine freely - just might be an interesting economic situation (which could well lead to Ukraine becoming one of the richest countries in Europe.

 

[reinaert]

Translation: After we cut off your foot we demand you pick which thumb you will voluntarily surrender, else we beat you to death.

 

[PoS]

I watching the history of Putin's antics, and he has never really had this kind of push back before Biden. Biden is really after his ass, and he's probably a bit shocked. Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump all did very little, and still worked with him with a smile on their face.
Biden has rallied everyone against him, and these are the most sever sanctions ever given.

So, he might want out.

LMAO are you kidding me? Biden hasnt done shit.

Zelensky is the true hero here. He has rallied his people and the world by his heroism, and is staying to fight in a besieged city.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Counterproposal: Russia must change its constitution to secure:

Demilitarization (aka Japan post WWII)
Denazification of current leadership, submit leadership to war crimes trials
Denazification by firing all former KGB agents from state jobs
Return all occupied lands to borders of 1938
Finnish territory
Polish territory
Kalingrad to Germany
Kurile Islands returned to Japan
Georgian territory
Withdraw from all occupied territories
Pay for all war damages to Ukraine
Pay for all war damages to Georgia
Pay for the murder of millions in Holodomor
Hold free and fair elections in Russia
Replace all school history and political curriculum with truth about Russia.
Surrender all nuclear weapons

OR

Shove a grenade up Putin's ass and pull the pin.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Yes, and the demands that Austria made on Serbia sounded "reasonable" to them too.

NOTE - The demands sounded "reasonable" because the Austrian government WANTED to start a war with Serbia and knew that its demands were totally unacceptable.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Tell you what. I'll change my avatar as a nod to your gracious comment.

Oh don't do anything on my account.
I'm just saying that you sound better as a real conservative than as an anti-gov guy.
Sure, government is a pain in the ass, and often incompetent beyond the realm of absurd, never ANY argument from me on that.

But conservatives understand the function of government and real conservatives just want it to be thrifty, focused and competent, and last but not least, self-cognizant of its
naturally built-in limitations. We can all argue about what those limitations actually ARE, over brandy and cigars, or whatevs.

Much respect.