Russia plans to annex large parts of eastern Ukraine, warns U.S. official

[Rogue Valley]

Russia plans to annex large parts of eastern Ukraine, warns U.S. official

5.3.22
A senior U.S. official warned that Russia plans to annex large portions of eastern Ukraine later this month, and the Mariupol steel mill that has become the city’s last stronghold of resistance came under renewed assault a day after the first evacuation of civilians from the plant. Michael Carpenter, U.S. ambassador to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, said Monday that the U.S. believes the Kremlin also plans to recognize the southern city of Kherson as an independent republic. Neither move would be recognized by the United States or its allies, he said. Carpenter cited information that Russia is planning to hold sham referendums in the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics that would “try to add a veneer of democratic or electoral legitimacy” and attach the entities to Russia. He also said there were signs that Russia would engineer an independence vote in Kherson. He noted that mayors and local legislators there have been abducted, that internet and cellphone service has been severed and that a Russian school curriculum is soon to be imposed. Ukraine’s government has said Russia also has introduced the ruble as currency there.

This was Putin's plan all along ..... to forcibly steal as much territory from Ukraine as he can.

 

[Roadvirus]

The "Duh" heard 'round the world.

 

[oneworld2]

Russia plans to annex large parts of eastern Ukraine, warns U.S. official

This was Putin's plan all along ..... to forcibly steal as much territory from Ukraine as he can.

Maybe that's the best option seeing as how the West and East of Ukraine are practically different places anyhow.

One day the Ukrainians in the West will realize how they have been played and how much it cost them to find out that the West/US are not so good bedfellows.

 

[Chagos]

East and West of a country are different places?

Wow, the profundity of such realization is mind-boggling.

That's definitely enough reason for a foreign power to forcibly split it up and keep the region it has split off.

 

[joluoto]

Well Plan A was to take all of Ukraine, so all things considered quite modest for being a Plan B from the Vozhd.

 

[oneworld2]

East and West of a country are different places?

It might come as a surprise to some here with their yellow and blue ties/flags etc because they are only hearing the views from the Western Ukrainians for the most part

Wow, the profundity of such realization is mind-boggling.

DNFTT

That's definitely enough reason for a foreign power to forcibly split it up and keep the region it has split off.

Humanitarian pragmatism eludes you, no shocks there. Additionally the East need not be made a part of Russian sovereign territory. That obvious point also eludes you.

 

[oneworld2]

Well Plan A was to take all of Ukraine,

Have you a reference for that claim?

 

[joluoto]

Have you a reference for that claim?

They went directly for Kiev.

 

[Chagos]

So taking part of a sovereign state is okay if it can be secured by the thief in any other way than annexing it?

Here, guyz'n gals we have the nature revealed of anyone posting such tripe.

 

[oneworld2]

They went directly for Kiev.

That's your back up for the claim? lol So you have nothing, didn't think so. You speculated and tried to pass it off as an awareness of a " plan A " but have not shown anything to confirm what plan A is or where it came from.

I am no military expert but I have read/watched others who state that if an army wants to take a city containing millions of people they have to have at least a 4-1 troop ratio in their favour. That, apparently, was never the case with Kiev and the action is more of a fixing move to tie up Ukrainian forces in the north.

 

[oneworld2]

So taking part of a sovereign state is okay if it can be secured by the thief in any other way than annexing it?

Here, guyz'n gals we have the nature revealed of anyone posting such tripe.

Troll on because only fools will not be able to see through it and I really don't care what they might think of my commentary, even misrepresentations of my commentary which is where you usually reside.

 

[Chagos]

The projection issues witnessed here (troll on ) would be hilarious, were they not so sad.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Have you a reference for that claim?

The overt statements from the Russian government questioning the very existence of Ukrainian statehood.

 

[Jredbaron96]

That, apparently, was never the case with Kiev and the action is more of a fixing move to tie up Ukrainian forces in the north.

The idea that the northern invasion Corridor was just a fixing action doesn't line up with Russian operations.

 

[joluoto]

That's your back up for the claim? lol So you have nothing, didn't think so. You speculated and tried to pass it off as an awareness of a " plan A " but have not shown anything to confirm what plan A is or where it came from.

I am no military expert but I have read/watched others who state that if an army wants to take a city containing millions of people they have to have at least a 4-1 troop ratio in their favour. That, apparently, was never the case with Kiev and the action is more of a fixing move to tie up Ukrainian forces in the north.

Putin himself said Ukraine is not a real country. That heavily indicates his plan was to remove said not real country from the map.

 

[Juin]

They went directly for Kiev.

Annexation requires more than just seizing a capital. That be kinda like saying the US heading directly for Baghdad is evidence itself of an intent to annnex.

 

[Chagos]

Annexation requires more than just seizing a capital. That be kinda like saying the US heading directly for Baghdad is evidence itself of an intent to annnex.

Context is everything.

 

[Juin]

Context is everything.

"Annex" still requires a higher bar. Too many wars in the past have aimed at seizing capitals without annexation intended, even though annexation was always possible. Anyways the case against Putin still has to be rigorous. Otherwise he is guilty of whatever any choses to imagine against him.

 

[Chagos]

"Annex" still requires a higher bar. Too many wars in the past have aimed at seizing capitals without annexation intended, even though annexation was always possible. Anyways the case against Putin still has to be rigorous. Otherwise he is guilty of whatever any choses to imagine against him.

Kindly don't play dumb, we all know you're not.

P.S. Not being able to speak for all, I'll rephrase that to "I know............"

 

[Chagos]

That the poster of post #18 is no military expert finds confirmation in the risible claim that

an army attempting to take a city needs at least a 4-1 troop ratio in its favour

by that parameter the "coalition of the willing" that took Baghdad would have needed to comprise over 20 million if we go by number of Baghdadi citizens, but at least 1,2 million if we go by Iraqi forces' strength.

In his favour he cites something that he heard/read somebody else say.

In other news, I heard somebody say that the earth is flat, so there ya go.

 

[Fledermaus]

Maybe that's the best option seeing as how the West and East of Ukraine are practically different places anyhow.

One day the Ukrainians in the West will realize how they have been played and how much it cost them to find out that the West/US are not so good bedfellows.

No, they aren't "practically different places" save for Donbas.

And Donetsk and Luhansk were both mid 56-58% ethnic Ukrainians according to 2001 census.

And everyone now knows how Putin has lied repeatedly about Ukraine

 

[Rogue Valley]

1991 referendum vote for independence. Do you support the Act of Declaration of Independence of Ukraine?

Donetsk Oblast - 83.90 Yes
Luhansk Oblast - 83.86 Yes

 

[slick]

No, they aren't "practically different places" save for Donbas.

And Donetsk and Luhansk were both mid 56-58% ethnic Ukrainians according to 2001 census.

And everyone now knows how Putin has lied repeatedly about Ukraine

If what you posted is correct how do you explain that during the last Ukraine election when
Ukraine was still a whole country which was 2010 when Yanukovitch beat the EU candidate
the votes in the Donbass & Crimea were:

In the last legitimate Ukie election the following Oblasts voted accordingly:
Crimea Yanukovich 78.24% Tymoshenko 17.31%
Donetsk region Yanukovich 90.44% Tymoshenko 6.45%
Luhansk region Yanukovich 88.96% Tymoshenko 7.72%

Donetsk supported Yanokovich even moreso than Crimea. Biden stated recently US supports the Ukraine
democracy & it's freedom. A country that overthrew a duly elected president who had to run for his life
& later had their OWN president who they voted for after the KIEV MAIDAN coup imprisoned for treason does not sound like a country one would define as a democracy.

I'M ALSO AMAZED by all this winning Ukraine is doing as reported by western pundits.
Maybe because “winning” means boatloads of his people are killed, maimed and made homeless?

But that’s just a guess.
I wonder about what happened to the right of self-determination for the breakaway regions.

 

[slick]

Let's get real! The entire country east of the Dneiper

 

[Lord of Planar]

Russia plans to annex large parts of eastern Ukraine, warns U.S. official

This was Putin's plan all along ..... to forcibly steal as much territory from Ukraine as he can.

That map looks correct to me, because that's the part of Ukraine than has a majority of ethnic Russians, who wish to get out from under Ukrainian rule.