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Russia or Ukraine - which side are you on? Non-anonymous version

Russia or Ukraine - which side are you on?

  • clearly for Ukraine

  • more or less for Ukraine

  • neutral

  • more or less for Russia

  • clearly for Russia

Results are only viewable after voting.
Cardinal said:
This is a copy of the other thread, word for word, the only difference being that the results of this poll aren't anonymous.
Russia or Ukraine - which side are you on?
You have several options.
Not just for or against.
Click to expand...
Where is the "Against Both" option.
Russia under Putin is aggressive, uncooperative, contentious, harsh and corrupt.
Ukraine under multiple government of multiple countries is unstable, a trouble maker, whiny, corrupt and has never been able to govern itself as a free country for very long.
Both countries have contributed to this mess. Both countries are to blame. Both countries have acted like jerks.
 
weaver2 said:
Where is the "Against Both" option.
Russia under Putin is aggressive, uncooperative, contentious, harsh and corrupt.
Ukraine under multiple government of multiple countries is unstable, a trouble maker, whiny, corrupt and has never been able to govern itself as a free country for very long.
Both countries have contributed to this mess. Both countries are to blame. Both countries have acted like jerks.
Click to expand...
One country is a budding democracy, the other isn’t.
 
AmNat said:
In principle I am neutral, but in truth my sympathies lie with the Russians. While I'm sure there are plenty of fine people, on both sides as it were, the Russians are fighting against globalist liberalism while the Ukrainians are (objectively) fighting for it.
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Imagine having lost the national debate so perfectly that the only way to implement your preferred policies is through open authoritarianship.
 
Cardinal said:
Imagine having lost the national debate so perfectly that the only way to implement your preferred policies is through open authoritarianship.
Click to expand...
All political ideologies are authoritarian. See Canada.
 
Clearly for the Ukraine. Hands down, no reservations.
 
AmNat said:
All political ideologies are authoritarian. See Canada.
Click to expand...
If you see democracy as “authoritarian,” then all that tells me is that you’ve created a personal definition of authoritarian that means “you don’t get your own way.” Actually, you’ve also redefined it to mean that you do get your own way. Which means that your personal definition of authoritarian is meaningless.
 
Cardinal said:
If you see democracy as “authoritarian,” then all that tells me is that you’ve created a personal definition of authoritarian that means “you don’t get your own way.” Actually, you’ve also redefined it to mean that you do get your own way.
Click to expand...
I'm using it in the literal sense of the word: "characterized by or favoring absolute obedience to authority, as against individual freedom". All governments, when push comes to shove, demand obedience from their subjects irrespective of whether the subject agrees with the government. While it's true that in some countries (Canada, Australia, etc.) the limitations on personal freedom are more odious than others, the term is nonetheless accurate in regard to any stable regime.

I'm aware that the media uses "authoritarian" as a byword for any politician or state they dislike.
 
AmNat said:
I'm using it in the literal sense of the word: "characterized by or favoring absolute obedience to authority, as against individual freedom". All governments, when push comes to shove, demand obedience from their subjects irrespective of whether the subject agrees with the government. While it's true that in some countries (Canada, Australia, etc.) the limitations on personal freedom are more odious than others, the term is nonetheless accurate in regard to any stable regime.

I'm aware that the media uses "authoritarian" as a byword for any politician or state they dislike.
Click to expand...
And that is functionally your definition as well, which is why you’ve relegated yourself out of relevance on this topic.
 
AmNat said:
In principle I am neutral, but in truth my sympathies lie with the Russians. While I'm sure there are plenty of fine people, on both sides as it were, the Russians are fighting against globalist liberalism while the Ukrainians are (objectively) fighting for it.
Click to expand...

Define "globalist liberalism," how Ukraine embodies it, and why it's bad, and why it necessitates a Russian invasion.

I'm betting dollars to doughnuts that your explanation will be a mess of jumbled, incoherent idiocy.
 
You people would have let Hitler take Europe all over again. History is repeating itself and the lessons learned in ww2 are being ignored. That's how we got Trump and that's how ww3 started.

I am very disappointed with every single one of you who won't commit to stopping Putin. This isn't even really about Ukraine it's about Putin's goals. That goal is the US, the sooner you realize we are the target the sooner you realize that the war for us has already started. Meanwhile, we are going to just sit here and watch thousands of Ukrainians die because we are afraid to "intervene". Putin already threatened us with his nukes. If we do not do anything but a proxy war then it will embolden Putin to do more. More is Poland and other NATO nations and we will sooner than later be at war.

Right now Putin put most of his military in a bad spot. We have the advantage and yes that means nukes will be deployed. That fact is unavoidable, Putin will use his nukes in the near future even if we "stay out of Ukraine". The time for cowing is over, time to stand for freedom. Of course, you guys will not recognize the fact that GOP Putin lovers are the ones asserting that we should stay out of Ukraine. It is those same people telling us that we should be afraid of Putins nukes. They are an arm of Putin and they are here in this thread threatening us all.
 
Gatsby said:
No one with any influence in the United States has suggested we should go to war with Russia.
Click to expand...
And none of the people on your list, the ones I know, have "openly sided with Russia"
 
FreedomFromAll said:
You people would have let Hitler take Europe all over again. History is repeating itself and the lessons learned in ww2 are being ignored. That's how we got Trump and that's how ww3 started.

I am very disappointed with every single one of you who won't commit to stopping Putin. This isn't even really about Ukraine it's about Putin's goals. That goal is the US, the sooner you realize we are the target the sooner you realize that the war for us has already started. Meanwhile, we are going to just sit here and watch thousands of Ukrainians die because we are afraid to "intervene". Putin already threatened us with his nukes. If we do not do anything but a proxy war then it will embolden Putin to do more. More is Poland and other NATO nations and we will sooner than later be at war.

Right now Putin put most of his military in a bad spot. We have the advantage and yes that means nukes will be deployed. That fact is unavoidable, Putin will use his nukes in the near future even if we "stay out of Ukraine". The time for cowing is over, time to stand for freedom. Of course, you guys will not recognize the fact that GOP Putin lovers are the ones asserting that we should stay out of Ukraine. It is those same people telling us that we should be afraid of Putins nukes. They are an arm of Putin and they are here in this thread threatening us all.
Click to expand...
Are you willing to die for Ukraine?
 
FreedomFromAll said:
You people would have let Hitler take Europe all over again. History is repeating itself and the lessons learned in ww2 are being ignored. That's how we got Trump and that's how ww3 started.

I am very disappointed with every single one of you who won't commit to stopping Putin. This isn't even really about Ukraine it's about Putin's goals. That goal is the US, the sooner you realize we are the target the sooner you realize that the war for us has already started. Meanwhile, we are going to just sit here and watch thousands of Ukrainians die because we are afraid to "intervene". Putin already threatened us with his nukes. If we do not do anything but a proxy war then it will embolden Putin to do more. More is Poland and other NATO nations and we will sooner than later be at war.

Right now Putin put most of his military in a bad spot. We have the advantage and yes that means nukes will be deployed. That fact is unavoidable, Putin will use his nukes in the near future even if we "stay out of Ukraine". The time for cowing is over, time to stand for freedom. Of course, you guys will not recognize the fact that GOP Putin lovers are the ones asserting that we should stay out of Ukraine. It is those same people telling us that we should be afraid of Putins nukes. They are an arm of Putin and they are here in this thread threatening us all.
Click to expand...
While I prefer my dog to most people, I'm pretty chilled by the cavalier '**** it, who needs Boston, Houston and Atlanta?!' vibe.
 
Gatsby said:
Well, let's start with the tweets where they just spent the past month gaslighting the world about the threat from Russia, and blamed America for overreacting:
Click to expand...

You got all of that from that 'tweet'?

Gatsby said:
Here they are a couple weeks later blaming Ukraine's democracy on "US-backed, far-right extremists."
Click to expand...

That sure seems like an oversimplification of a complex issue and article. Did you read the article or just the 'tweet'?

Gatsby said:
And then let's move on to the overt instances where they called for appeasement and just giving Putin what he wants. Less than 24 hours ago:
Click to expand...

Where did they say to appease Putin and give him what he wants?

Gatsby said:
The thing to understand about midwit tankies like Jacobin is that they are not anti-war or anti-imperialism in any meaningful sense. They LOVE war and imperialism, which is why they have been parroting Russian pretexts for an invasion. Nor are they motivated by a love of socialism: Putin is a right-wing crony capitalist fascist thug, and doesn't even pretend to be otherwise. Their true north star is that they just hate America and will side with whoever is on the opposite side of any conflict. They are the flipside of the narcissistic "American exceptionalists" on the right...they are people who lack self-esteem and just want to self-flagellate about how everything in the world is their fault. Not everything is about America.

TLDR: Jacobin Magazine are deplorable ****ing idiots.
Click to expand...

Jacobin loves war and imperialism? I think they're advocating against both. Do you have anything to support your claim?

I don't see where they've "openly sided with Russia." It seems to me that for you it's more about them being critical of the US.
 
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FreedomFromAll said:
You people would have let Hitler take Europe all over again. History is repeating itself and the lessons learned in ww2 are being ignored. That's how we got Trump and that's how ww3 started.

I am very disappointed with every single one of you who won't commit to stopping Putin. This isn't even really about Ukraine it's about Putin's goals. That goal is the US, the sooner you realize we are the target the sooner you realize that the war for us has already started. Meanwhile, we are going to just sit here and watch thousands of Ukrainians die because we are afraid to "intervene". Putin already threatened us with his nukes. If we do not do anything but a proxy war then it will embolden Putin to do more. More is Poland and other NATO nations and we will sooner than later be at war.

Right now Putin put most of his military in a bad spot. We have the advantage and yes that means nukes will be deployed. That fact is unavoidable, Putin will use his nukes in the near future even if we "stay out of Ukraine". The time for cowing is over, time to stand for freedom. Of course, you guys will not recognize the fact that GOP Putin lovers are the ones asserting that we should stay out of Ukraine. It is those same people telling us that we should be afraid of Putins nukes. They are an arm of Putin and they are here in this thread threatening us all.
Click to expand...

The US should 'nuke' Russia?
 
Gatsby said:
So far here is my mental list of villains who have openly sided with Russia:
  • Laura Ingraham
  • Glenn Greenwald
  • Tulsi Gabbard
  • JD Vance
  • Cucker Tarlson
  • That reality TV dude who was briefly POTUS
  • Jacobin Magazine
  • Candace Owens (she partly walked it back)
How heartwarming that being a shitty person can transcend ideology and political party.
Click to expand...

There are also asshats like Jimmy Dore who downplayed the invasion threat (though I'm unsure he's expressed outright support for Russia).
 
I saw a video tonight of a family with a screaming child as they were being bombed.

This is why I’m not POTUS - I would have ordered a strike to blast Russian troops back to Moscow….and order hellfire to rain from the sky until Putin was dead or begging for mercy.

God bless and comfort those families in the Ukraine.

I wish we could send in targeted drone strikes and decimate the Russian forces. I wish we could do anything. My Mom heart is crushed after seeing that video.
 
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