Russia denies sending mercenaries to shore up Nicolás Maduro's position

[Rogue Valley]

And that somehow makes Guaido legitimate? No.

Thread isn't about Guaido. Try again.

 

[oneworld2]

Oh please! Stop trying to con people that you give a flying about the people of Venezuela. You are a cheerleader for US foreign policy and as such cannot be taken seriously

You are the one that is supporting the man that has decided he is the president of Venezuela without any electoral validation from the Venezuelan public. The man who is calling for widespread protests aimed at overthrowing the government that are sure to leave many more people dead on both sides

You no doubt support the likes of John Bolton who is threatening the Venezuelan people not to resist the government the US wants to rule there


“Any violence and intimidation against US diplomatic personnel, Venezuela’s democratic leader, Juan Guaidó, or the National Assembly itself would represent a grave assault on the rule of law and will be met with a significant response,” US National Security Advisor John Bolton tweeted, without specifying what kind of response he meant.

You should all stay out of what is the business of Venezuelans instead of arrogantly thinking you have that right

 

[Mach]

Trump should ask him, and if Putin strongly denies it, well, Putin must be telling the truth? Amirite Trump?

 

[oneworld2]

Your opinion is noted.

Others disagree. Others who know far more than you in the subject.

And your assertion remains null , void and wholly unsupported.So much for your alleged knowledge

 

[Rogue Valley]

You should all stay out of what is the business of Venezuelans instead of arrogantly thinking you have that right

Lol. Like you never stick your nose into others business.

 

[oneworld2]

Lol. Like you never stick your nose into others business.

Tell me what right has John Bolton to threaten Venezuelans with violence for not accepting a leader the US wants to install that has no democratic validation from the people there ?

There's commenting on stuff and then there's advocating military attacks to impose your will...................... why am I not surprised that a war monger such as yourself would fail to see the difference ?

 

[Fledermaus]

Oh please! Stop trying to con people that you give a flying about the people of Venezuela. You are a cheerleader for US foreign policy and as such cannot be taken seriously

Oh please! Stop trying to con people that you give a flying about the people of Venezuela. You are a cheerleader for any tinpot dictator as long as they are anti USA and as such cannot be taken seriously

 

[Fledermaus]

And your assertion remains null , void and wholly unsupported.So much for your alleged knowledge

My assertion is also that of people far more educated in Venezuelan politics than you are.

 

[Litwin]

Trump should ask him, and if Putin strongly denies it, well, Putin must be telling the truth? Amirite Trump?

after ozero lost 2 wars in Ukraine and "Syria" ozero decided to fight only the commercial wars , like Mongols (fathers of Muscovy) did in 13c. gold, Oil, diamonds , uranium, minerals, etc. 0 reaction from European left to this hard - core old good days Muscovite colonial politic

Putler says state and private ‘instructors’ (GRU) are in Sudan

https://www.debatepolitics.com/euro...-state-and-private-instructors-gru-sudan.html

 

[oneworld2]

Oh please! Stop trying to con people that you give a flying about the people of Venezuela. You are a cheerleader for any tinpot dictator as long as they are anti USA and as such cannot be taken seriously

So we can add * lacks originality * to * fails to back up claims * , that's okay with me too

" Tinpot ( sic ) dictators " tend not to have 67 % support of those who voted in the elections. In fact they tend not to have elections at all. And how many voted for your preferred " legitimate " president in those elections ? Zilch , nobody, not a soul. Your comments are , once again , of only comedic value

 

[oneworld2]

My assertion is also that of people far more educated in Venezuelan politics than you are.

Their opinion , just like your opinion , is based on nothing but complete bias

That people here can think of you as " rational " whilst they are having to explain to you how you might feel if Venezuelans were deciding for you who will govern your country only highlights the level of debate often found on these boards and just how low the standards can go with the participants still deluding themselves of their own ability

 

[Fledermaus]

So we can add * lacks originality * to * fails to back up claims * , that's okay with me too

" Tinpot ( sic ) dictators " tend not to have 67 % support of those who voted in the elections. In fact they tend not to have elections at all. And how many voted for your preferred " legitimate " president in those elections ? Zilch , nobody, not a soul. Your comments are , once again , of only comedic value

Tinpot dictators DO tend to have high numbers in elections.... Up to and including 90%+

Your knowledge of dictators and their elections is lacking.

Assad finally had "free" elections. In government controlled areas only with limited opposition. Prior to the he won every one party election.

Saddam Hussein had marvelous numbers in his elections.

As did the North Korean Kims.

Has Maduro done what is necessary to retain his Presidency?

 

[Fledermaus]

Their opinion , just like your opinion , is based on nothing but complete bias

That people here can think of you as " rational " whilst they are having to explain to you how you might feel if Venezuelans were deciding for you who will govern your country only highlights the level of debate often found on these boards and just how low the standards can go with the participants still deluding themselves of their own ability

When was the last election?

What day is today?

Have not the people been rising up against the government?

Is there not massive exodus?

Why are you so supportive of leaders that screw their own people over?

 

[oneworld2]

Tinpot dictators DO tend to have high numbers in elections.... Up to and including 90%+

Your knowledge of dictators and their elections is lacking.

Assad finally had "free" elections. In government controlled areas only with limited opposition. Prior to the he won every one party election.

Saddam Hussein had marvelous numbers in his elections.

As did the North Korean Kims.

Has Maduro done what is necessary to retain his Presidency?

Tin-pot dictators, when they do have elections , never set the bar at 60 odd % , they get high 90's

But what's missing ?

The fact that NOBODY , NOT A SOUL , voted for the man you claim is the " legitimate president " of Venezuela

Nice attempt to dodge again

 

[oneworld2]

When was the last election?

What day is today?

Have not the people been rising up against the government?

Is there not massive exodus?

Why are you so supportive of leaders that screw their own people over?

All leaders tend to screw their people over imo , including your own. Why are you only interested in people in the cross hairs of your own government and it's empire building wars / attacks ?

Whatever you want to say about the election and subsequent events , nothing changes the fact that nobody , not a single voter , voted for th man you claim is the legitimate president of Venezuela. At some point you are going to have to respond to that and accept that your claim is ridiculous

 

[Fledermaus]

All leaders tend to screw their people over imo , including your own. Why are you only interested in people in the cross hairs of your own government and it's empire building wars / attacks ?

Whatever you want to say about the election and subsequent events , nothing changes the fact that nobody , not a single voter , voted for th man you claim is the legitimate president of Venezuela. At some point you are going to have to respond to that and accept that your claim is ridiculous

When was the election? What day is it? Has Maduro done what is needed to retain his Presidency?

 

[Fledermaus]

Tin-pot dictators, when they do have elections , never set the bar at 60 odd % , they get high 90's

But what's missing ?

The fact that NOBODY , NOT A SOUL , voted for the man you claim is the " legitimate president " of Venezuela

Nice attempt to dodge again

NOBODY AT ALL HAS TO....

Not one.

You remain ignorant of the Venezuelan Constitution.

 

[oneworld2]

When was the election? What day is it? Has Maduro done what is needed to retain his Presidency?

2018. Boycotted by the people that claim it was a fiddle. The people now seeking to oust him ( mustn't have been that confident in the run up to the election ). The people you support

Wednesday here

In their eyes and through their actions Maduro was never going to do enough to hold on to the presidency. That much is patently obvious. It's revealing that you have to be led by the hand through such obvious situations

Has Trump done enough , stuck to his pre election promises etc to stay in office ? You would NEVER accept a Venezuelan coup group working with the Dems to ouster him and threatening the use of the military in order to achieve it

But that is because you are a complete and utter hypocrite that wholeheartedly supports actions against others they would never accept taken against themselves. It's a defining trait imo

 

[Fledermaus]

2018. Boycotted by the people that claim it was a fiddle. The people now seeking to oust him ( mustn't have been that confident in the run up to the election ). The people you support

Wednesday here

In their eyes and through their actions Maduro was never going to do enough to hold on to the presidency. That much is patently obvious. It's revealing that you have to be led by the hand through such obvious situations

Has Trump done enough , stuck to his pre election promises etc to stay in office ? You would NEVER accept a Venezuelan coup group working with the Dems to ouster him and threatening the use of the military in order to achieve it

But that is because you are a complete and utter hypocrite that wholeheartedly supports actions against others they would never accept taken against themselves. It's a defining trait imo

TRUMP CARD rejected. This is about Venezuela. Not the US.

So, Maduro was elected in 2016.... Since then Venezuela continues to go swirling down the toilet.

There is a Constitutional solution to Maduro and his failure.

And the Venezuelans are using that constitutional solution.

Your problem with it is?

 

[oneworld2]

NOBODY AT ALL HAS TO....

Not one.

You remain ignorant of the Venezuelan Constitution.

The comment was based on your introduction of " tin pot " dictators. You know , those with either no or highly dubious democratic endorsement from the people of their country. That was the context. You broaden the debate in order to switch between context and subject matter in order to stimie debate and duck out of your own commentary as and when required.

You are the one who

Support a man with NO democratic endorsement from the Venezuelan population but try to berate others for an alleged liking for tin pot dictators in a show of breathtaking BS

You then refer to the Venezuelan constitution as though Madero had died or been struck down with an incapacitating health issue that rendered him unable to carry on and for others to step in . As though that is somehow a reality. Fail

You have, AFAIK, completely failed to answer Evilroddy's point that even if Maduro was in no position to carry on , for whatever reason , the vice president would be the replacement. ( as would be the same in your own country IIRC ). Fail

You support an opposition members self proclaimed presidency claim, without democratic endorsement and without constitutional support , as outlined above , purely because your own nation is in the thick of yet another coup/regime change debacle because you are only capable of cheer leading for US foreign policy. Same as it ever was and ever will be

 

[Fledermaus]

The comment was based on your introduction of " tin pot " dictators. You know , those with either no or highly dubious democratic endorsement from the people of their country. That was the context. You broaden the debate in order to switch between context and subject matter in order to stimie debate and duck out of your own commentary as and when required.

You are the one who

Support a man with NO democratic endorsement from the Venezuelan population but try to berate others for an alleged liking for tin pot dictators in a show of breathtaking BS

You then refer to the Venezuelan constitution as though Madero had died or been struck down with an incapacitating health issue that rendered him unable to carry on and for others to step in . As though that is somehow a reality. Fail

You have, AFAIK, completely failed to answer Evilroddy's point that even if Maduro was in no position to carry on , for whatever reason , the vice president would be the replacement. ( as would be the same in your own country IIRC ). Fail

You support an opposition members self proclaimed presidency claim, without democratic endorsement and without constitutional support , as outlined above , purely because your own nation is in the thick of yet another coup/regime change debacle because you are only capable of cheer leading for US foreign policy. Same as it ever was and ever will be

Please show where in the Venezuelan Constitution it is required for a popular vote in orber to assign an interim president.....

And Maduro doesn't have to die or become incapacitated. He merely has to do what he is doing.

You keep babbling about the vote. Is it needed? Show me.

 

[oneworld2]

TRUMP CARD rejected. This is about Venezuela. Not the US.

You reject not because it is invalid , you reject it because you know an honest answer to it would leave you laid bare for the hypocrite you are. And it is about the US too. They are the ones threatening Venezuelans to accept their preferred leadership. They are the ones attacking the government of Maduro with sanctions and using their influence over others to undermine the Maduro government internationally. This has been their aim for around 20 years and is the second coup attempt by a coalition of Venezuelan elites and Washington to destroy the Bolivarian revolution governments

So, Maduro was elected in 2016.... Since then Venezuela continues to go swirling down the toilet.

Nope he was re elected in 2018 not 2016. How can you call others ignorant on this subject when you can't even hold a date like that in your head for 5 minutes ?

There is a Constitutional solution to Maduro and his failure.

Behave, this has already been referred to in the above post

There is a solution through dialogue but your own side don't want that because they think , not unreasonably , that with the power of their US backers they can take power without the dialogue needed to make for a better future outcome

And the Venezuelans are using that constitutional solution.

Some Venezuelans are attempting to by trying to give some bizarre interpretation of it for ideological reasons/gain and other Venezuelans , like the 5 million that voted for the Maduro government in 2018 ( try to remember that at least ) , you know , those you seem to want to airbrush out of the debate , see it as an attempted coup backed by the US

Your problem with it is?

All of the above

Your problem with it ? Nothing because you are a cheer leader for US foreign policy and a hypocrite. You completely dodged the Trump / US analogy because you would NEVER accept a country conspiring with elites in your country in a bid to oust the government and install their puppets. Shameless hypocrisy as I have cone to expect from you tbh

 

[Fledermaus]

You reject not because it is invalid , you reject it because you know an honest answer to it would leave you laid bare for the hypocrite you are. And it is about the US too. They are the ones threatening Venezuelans to accept their preferred leadership. They are the ones attacking the government of Maduro with sanctions and using their influence over others to undermine the Maduro government internationally. This has been their aim for around 20 years and is the second coup attempt by a coalition of Venezuelan elites and Washington to destroy the Bolivarian revolution governments



Nope he was re elected in 2018 not 2016. How can you call others ignorant on this subject when you can't even hold a date like that in your head for 5 minutes ?



Behave, this has already been referred to in the above post

There is a solution through dialogue but your own side don't want that because they think , not unreasonably , that with the power of their US backers they can take power without the dialogue needed to make for a better future outcome



Some Venezuelans are attempting to by trying to give some bizarre interpretation of it for ideological reasons/gain and other Venezuelans , like the 5 million that voted for the Maduro government in 2018 ( try to remember that at least ) , you know , those you seem to want to airbrush out of the debate , see it as an attempted coup backed by the US



All of the above

Your problem with it ? Nothing because you are a cheer leader for US foreign policy and a hypocrite. You completely dodged the Trump / US analogy because you would NEVER accept a country conspiring with elites in your country in a bid to oust the government and install their puppets. Shameless hypocrisy as I have cone to expect from you tbh

You are speaking of the election in 2018 that was rescheduled multiple times resulting in a snap election that has been roundly declared a sham.... One which opposition members were regularly disqualified. An election who is overseen by Maduro acolytes. An election less than 30% of the electorate desired to participate in. Not to mention voter intimidation and vote buying. An election considered unconstitutional by the Constitutional National Assembly.

That election?

 

[oneworld2]

You are speaking of the election in 2018 that was rescheduled multiple times resulting in a snap election that has been roundly declared a sham.... One which opposition members were regularly disqualified. An election who is overseen by Maduro acolytes. An election less than 30% of the electorate desired to participate in. Not to mention voter intimidation and vote buying. An election considered unconstitutional by the Constitutional National Assembly.

That election?

Right, so you are now trying to claim to be an expert on Venezuelan politics , the constitution and the electoral history....................... fresh off the back of not knowing that the election of Maduro took place in 2018 not 2016 as you stated earlier :roll: the words "bluff" and " merchant " spring to mind.

But there's much more than that to comment on

People should be aware that the opposition led National Assembly contrived Juan Guaidó " leadership " of the organisation in an " informal power sharing agreement " which saw him assuming this role less than a month ago !!

Guaidó was elected to the opposition-controlled National Assembly, recently assuming the Assembly presidency through an informal power-sharing agreement among the opposition’s political parties. One poll even suggests that as recently as a week ago, more than 80 percent of Venezuelans had no idea who Guaidó even was.

And what about your wish to parrot the proclamations of those Venezuelan elites that seek to circumvent the constitution in order to get their , and America's boy , in place citing article 233 ?

The opposition strategy is based on Article 233 of the Constitution, which grants the National Assembly the power to declare a president’s “abandonment” of the office. Of course, the kicker is that Maduro hasn’t done anything of the sort, and only the Supreme Court can disqualify sitting presidents

All excerpts from this article

https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14267

The truth appears to be that there is much resentment and hostility by many Venezuelans towards the Maduro government but those that are seeking to oust them are even less popular and remind many Venezuelans of the time before the often cited " democratic period " where Venezuelan and American elites combined to aggrandize themselves at the expense of the mass of Venezuelas poor

So a quick recap

You are cheering for a man fiddled into a position for less than a month who has declared himself president . Hilarious!

If some polls are to be believed it appears 4 out of 5 Venezuelans have never even heard of him .

Despite your parroting of the opposition line , like you too are an expert on the constitution and Venezuelan current affairs yourself , that the validity that this is a takeover bid is enshrined in the constitution , it appears this is little more than a sham designed to provide something of a fig leaf to an out and out coup with the added bonus of duping fools abroad to act as proxy experts for it

I will end with a clip I found that shows a group of Americans treating this pantomime with the contempt it deserves. A refreshing change from the US mouth pieces for US imperialism that pollute these boards with their garbage imho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98pBLXe7Bmk

 

[Fledermaus]

Right, so you are now trying to claim to be an expert on Venezuelan politics , the constitution and the electoral history....................... fresh off the back of not knowing that the election of Maduro took place in 2018 not 2016 as you stated earlier :roll: the words "bluff" and " merchant " spring to mind.

Where did I claim to be an expert on Venezuelan politics? Post number? What I have done is read a bit more than you.

But there's much more than that to comment on

So we are talking about the same sham election. Right?

People should be aware that the opposition led National Assembly contrived Juan Guaidó " leadership " of the organisation in an " informal power sharing agreement " which saw him assuming this role less than a month ago !!

So what? Why does this matter? Is it not allowed by law? Do you have a point?

And what about your wish to parrot the proclamations of those Venezuelan elites that seek to circumvent the constitution in order to get their , and America's boy , in place citing article 233 ?

Parroting? Sorry. I don't speak Spanish. The English language paper and articles do however point to article 233. Because article 233 is germane to the discussion.

The truth appears to be that there is much resentment and hostility by many Venezuelans towards the Maduro government but those that are seeking to oust them are even less popular and remind many Venezuelans of the time before the often cited " democratic period " where Venezuelan and American elites combined to aggrandize themselves at the expense of the mass of Venezuelas poor

AMERICA CARD.... There have been riots protesting the way Venezuela is being run since Chavez was still alive. And things have gotten worse since then. Both the Chavez/Maduro and Russian governments try blaming the US for the woes when it is Venezuelan incompetence and graft at thoe core.

So a quick recap

You are cheering for a man fiddled into a position for less than a month who has declared himself president . Hilarious!

And Constitutional.

And I am cheering for someone other than the dictatorial Maduro.

If some polls are to be believed it appears 4 out of 5 Venezuelans have never even heard of him .

If some polls are to be believed Dewey defeated Truman and Trump lost to Hillary and Jews did 9/11... And?

Despite your parroting of the opposition line , like you too are an expert on the constitution and Venezuelan current affairs yourself , that the validity that this is a takeover bid is enshrined in the constitution , it appears this is little more than a sham designed to provide something of a fig leaf to an out and out coup with the added bonus of duping fools abroad to act as proxy experts for it

Your inability to understand the Venezuelan Constitution is noted.

And again, Where did I claim to be an expert on Venezuelan politics? Post number?

I will end with a clip I found that shows a group of Americans treating this pantomime with the contempt it deserves. A refreshing change from the US mouth pieces for US imperialism that pollute these boards with their garbage imho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98pBLXe7Bmk

I will end with another irrelevant YouTube because YouTube rules