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Run on the Russian banks after interest rate is hiked to TWENTY per cent in desperate bid to stop rouble crashing: Western sanctions continue to savag

At this point - I am not sure Putin sees a way out of this. I don't see his ego allowing him to retreat. He has to win. Although I don't think even he knows what winning looks like. He is losing troops, loosing money, losing support, losing standing on the world stage, losing allies, and more. Tucking tail and going home will only make things worse for him as those who support him will turn and those who don't still won't.

I think he is looking for a way to "win" that doesn't exist and as long as he keeps going, he isn't "losing" (technically). He may demand the two regions, or Zelensky to resign or something to use as a declaration of victory.
 
Cardinal said:
Well obviously. But I'm making distinctions about short term vs long term effectiveness, and what the measures are perceived attacks on. In both cases, increased measures to repel the attack are good because they're specific and have near term positive results. The sanctions and the near-total international isolation of Russia make us feel good, but they don't have short term positive results (which are the kind we need), and do in fact make Putin's existential anxiety a thousand times worse.

This brings us back to the "Where's Putin's off ramp?" question that was first brought up two days ago.
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Putin’s “existential” musings are mostly about HIMSELF, just like any madman tyrant. The one thing that he won’t do is to put HIMSELF in danger, and playing the nuclear card would do that. He’s just saber rattling to try to stir up the Russian people, because he knows that is where any danger to himself comes from, the Russian people getting sick and tired of his antics that are causing THEM problems. It’s not the fault of the West, there is only one person in the world who is responsible for the present mess.
 
Kreton said:
At this point - I am not sure Putin sees a way out of this. I don't see his ego allowing him to retreat. He has to win. Although I don't think even he knows what winning looks like. He is losing troops, loosing money, losing support, losing standing on the world stage, losing allies, and more. Tucking tail and going home will only make things worse for him as those who support him will turn and those who don't still won't.

I think he is looking for a way to "win" that doesn't exist and as long as he keeps going, he isn't "losing" (technically). He may demand the two regions, or Zelensky to resign or something to use as a declaration of victory.
Click to expand...

Or, and this is the real danger, he will go all-out into “total war”, destroying everything that he can in Ukraine with en masse missile strikes and bomb runs. The biggest danger at the present time is the “cornered rat” syndrome. We would all hate to see this, but he’s a megalomaniacal madman who is now capable of almost anything.
 
watsup said:
Putin’s “existential” musings are mostly about HIMSELF, just like any madman tyrant. The one thing that he won’t do is to put HIMSELF in danger, and playing the nuclear card would do that. He’s just saber rattling to try to stir up the Russian people, because he knows that is where any danger to himself comes from, the Russian people getting sick and tired of his antics that are causing THEM problems. It’s not the fault of the West, there is only one person in the world who is responsible for the present mess.
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Yes, that is all very possible. That said, there are things that can be done (and in my view, are being done) that can facilitate the belief that if enough is taken away from him, then there's no point in letting everyone have the world.

Real world analogy: What did conservative Christians say at the prospect of lgbq's getting married? The lead argument was "Then the institution of marriage should be destroyed." Putin appears to fit in that mindset.
 
PeacefulWarrior said:
I "agree" that if it weren't for the moronic, inhuman, and despicable actions of the USA in Iraq, there never would have so much as been a group called "ISIS" in existence.

But this is by design, IMO, the more death and havoc that the USA causes in the Mid East, the more dysfunction and chaos is sown, the better it is for Israel and also for oil FrEeDuMbZ$™. Gotta get Exxon-Mobil friendly puppet "governments" in, and eliminate enemies of Israel all at the same time.
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I can't agree with your opinion here. Our war on Iraq was stupid but ISSIS was not our creation, it was Allah's, and Israel was not our beneficiary. You seem to have a very low opinion of the United States, which I think is unnecessarily extreme.

Islam is batshit crazy, oppressive and corrosive to secularism. That, more than anything, is why we should have stayed out of Iraq. But, they do have a lot of oil that we Americans could use. And, it's better that we control it than China. We have a much more open, free and moral nation. The Iraqis do better here than we EVER could there.

I realize that geopolitics is a dirty business, but I can't accept that we Americans make it dirtier than it would otherwise be. If, as is obvious, might makes right on planet Earth, I'd prefer that the more open, free and democratic society wield the might.

There is a liberal fantasy of a perfect world that has, too long, persisted as an obstacle to global progress.

It is a waste of our intellectual bandwidth to keep pretending the world will be fair, ever. What we CAN achieve is a better world, not a perfect or fair world, and to do that reasonable people must stand against liberal fantasies every bit as much as we stand against the imaginary reality of ISSIS.

America is the last best hope for humanity. I believe that.
 
You know what the difference is between a rouble and a dollar?

About a dollar.
 
watsup said:
How’s them numbers, Putin? Is there anything at all for Russians to invest in? War products, I suppose.
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www.france24.com

Russians worry for their savings as ruble tanks

When she saw the ruble go through the floor, Natalia Proshina made a beeline for the bank.
www.france24.com www.france24.com
www.pbs.org

Russians line up at banks as currency plummets in face of sanctions

Ordinary Russians are facing the prospect of higher prices as Western sanctions over the invasion of Ukraine sent the ruble plummeting.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org


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watsup said:
Or, and this is the real danger, he will go all-out into “total war”, destroying everything that he can in Ukraine with en masse missile strikes and bomb runs. The biggest danger at the present time is the “cornered rat” syndrome. We would all hate to see this, but he’s a megalomaniacal madman who is now capable of almost anything.
Click to expand...

Deuce said:
You know what the difference is between a rouble and a dollar?

About a dollar.
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www.bbc.com

Ukraine conflict: Airbus, ExxonMobil and Boeing take action over Russia ties

The planemaker joins oil giant ExxonMobil and Boeing as the latest corporate giants to sever links.
www.bbc.com
 
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