Rule of Law? Nah. Rule of Party!

[The Old Soul]

It no longer matters whats IN a bill, just which PARTY is for it. Lets skip the formalities of content and go straight to the vote:

"The Virginia House passed the measure in a 48-43 vote, and the Senate approved it in a 20-19 vote. Not a single Republican voted for the bill in either chamber.
Virginia Legislature (DEMOCRATS) Legalize Adult-Use

Toxic Partisanship is destroying the premise this country was founded on; we are now an Inflexible Duopoly and no longer a country of the people.

 

[bongsaway]

You can thank the party of values and personal accountability who have handed the party over to the golden god they made for screwing up america.

 

[Perotista]

I totally agree. In our modern era of politics, the polarization, divisiveness, mega, ultra high partisanship, it has become party first and always. Democrats automatic oppose anything proposed by Republicans, Republican automatically oppose anything proposed by democrats, no thought whatsoever is give to the merits of the proposal. Just who proposed it.

I also agree we now have rule by party, not of law. The party in power if they don't like a law, they ignore it and call it prosecutors discretion or something like that. So it boils down where we're ruled over by party ideologues.

 

[Luther]

It no longer matters whats IN a bill, just which PARTY is for it. Lets skip the formalities of content and go straight to the vote:

"The Virginia House passed the measure in a 48-43 vote, and the Senate approved it in a 20-19 vote. Not a single Republican voted for the bill in either chamber.
Virginia Legislature (DEMOCRATS) Legalize Adult-Use

Toxic Partisanship is destroying the premise this country was founded on; we are now an Inflexible Duopoly and no longer a country of the people.

Except our biggest problem is with our citizenry

 

[Luther]

It no longer matters whats IN a bill, just which PARTY is for it. Lets skip the formalities of content and go straight to the vote:

"The Virginia House passed the measure in a 48-43 vote, and the Senate approved it in a 20-19 vote. Not a single Republican voted for the bill in either chamber.
Virginia Legislature (DEMOCRATS) Legalize Adult-Use

Toxic Partisanship is destroying the premise this country was founded on; we are now an Inflexible Duopoly and no longer a country of the people.

Yes, more tax revenue for the state of Virginia can piss away

 

[Unitedwestand13]

I totally agree. In our modern era of politics, the polarization, divisiveness, mega, ultra high partisanship, it has become party first and always. Democrats automatic oppose anything proposed by Republicans, Republican automatically oppose anything proposed by democrats, no thought whatsoever is give to the merits of the proposal. Just who proposed it.

I also agree we now have rule by party, not of law. The party in power if they don't like a law, they ignore it and call it prosecutors discretion or something like that. So it boils down where we're ruled over by party ideologues.

I hate to be the cynical one, but when has American politics been anything but polarized.

this is a replay of the political norms of the 1880s and 1890s— the gilded age.

to be frank, unless real reform is implemented, the duopoly is here to stay. So why not just embrace it?

 

[Perotista]

I hate to be the cynical one, but when has American politics been anything but polarized.

this is a replay of the political norms of the 1880s and 1890s— the gilded age.

to be frank, unless real reform is implemented, the duopoly is here to stay. So why not just embrace it?

Perhaps in the 1800's. But I grew up in a different era, born right after WWII. Eisenhower had LBJ, then the senate majority leader over to the White House once a week tp discuss how to get IKE's agenda through congress. JFK and LBJ when they were president was always meeting and talking to Everit Dirksen, then the Republican minority leader in the senate. There wasn't the animosity between parties back then. There were no straight party line votes and the campaigns were mostly free of all the negative personal attack ads we have today.

even more recently, Reagan and Tip O'Neal working together, compromising, playing the game of give and take, liking each other are stuff of legends. no animosity between them.

Reagan and O’Neill: A political friendship worth recalling

Reagan and O’Neill: A political friendship worth recalling

www.ajc.com

Look at the pre-2000 leaders in the senate, Daschle and Lott, Mitchell and Dole, Baker and Byrd, they worked together, respected each other, still no straight party line votes. None of them would have ever dreamed of using the nuclear option let of alone use it. Politics changed in the 1990's. Pre-that, straight party line votes were very rare if at all. At least during my lifetime.

I think a lot of what we have today is due to both major parties shrinking, losing folks. There was a time when both major parties had their conservative and liberal wings. The solid conservative Democratic south, the Rockefeller liberal Republican northeast; Both parties got rid of their unwanted wings and are now in the process of getting rid of their moderates. Independents have risen from 30% of the electorate in 2006 to 50% as of 2 Feb 2021 if Gallup is to be believed.

Now you're right, the duopoly is here to stay. Republicans and Democrats write our election laws and they do so as a mutual protection act. If there's one thing today that both major parties agree on, it's no viable third party will ever rise. even if a majority of Americans think and want a viable third party as they have come to the conclusion that the two existing major parties don't represent them any more.

• 62% say a third party is needed, up from 57% in September

Support for Third U.S. Political Party at High Point

Sixty-two percent of U.S. adults believe a third political party is needed, the highest in Gallup's trend by one percentage point.

news.gallup.com

 

[Jay59]

It no longer matters whats IN a bill, just which PARTY is for it. Lets skip the formalities of content and go straight to the vote:

"The Virginia House passed the measure in a 48-43 vote, and the Senate approved it in a 20-19 vote. Not a single Republican voted for the bill in either chamber.
Virginia Legislature (DEMOCRATS) Legalize Adult-Use

Toxic Partisanship is destroying the premise this country was founded on; we are now an Inflexible Duopoly and no longer a country of the people.

Opposition to the so-called COVID relief bill was bipartisan.

You can thank the party of values and personal accountability who have handed the party over to the golden god they made for screwing up america.

At least you acknowledge that Republicans have values. That makes them one of two.

Yes, more tax revenue for the state of Virginia can piss away

That too.

The disconnect between Washington and the nation as a whole is larger than at any time in my memory. Trump was much closer to the nation and both parties reviled him. In part I can understand it. Trump was the worst sort of ally--toxic, abrasive, selfish, stage hog, etc. Yet, his team got things done. It was the most successful first term since Reagan.

Talk of third parties is only talk. The winner takes all nature of the system will not tolerate three parties.

 

[The Old Soul]

Opposition to the so-called COVID relief bill was bipartisan.
At least you acknowledge that Republicans have values. That makes them one of two.
That too.
The disconnect between Washington and the nation as a whole is larger than at any time in my memory. Trump was much closer to the nation and both parties reviled him. In part I can understand it. Trump was the worst sort of ally--toxic, abrasive, selfish, stage hog, etc. Yet, his team got things done. It was the most successful first term since Reagan.
Talk of third parties is only talk. The winner takes all nature of the system will not tolerate three parties.

Opposition is the key word; being from the 'Parotista' era (see above) of government that sorta worked (which as near as I can tell was the framers intention), to today, where if it isn't negative, it isn't said. The COVID bill is an excellent example - first, it was a Dem bill, which automatically put in the 'NO WAY' catagory for anyone with an R by their name. Second, regardless if there is a glimmer of positive anywhere to be found, it's immediately bulldozed with vitriol, and branded Another Poop Eating Democraptic Power Grabbing Communistic 'I Hate America' disaster.

And yes, it is ultimately the voter's fault, but it might not be so all-encompassing if the government (read Parties) were not four-square for turning politics into a professional sport where its one 'team' against the other, and winning is the goal, regardless of content or players. That's 90% of what the Parties push, while making every effort to push the voters buttons to keep them on the partisan track, and disgusted with the other party.

 

[Jay59]

Opposition is the key word; being from the 'Parotista' era (see above) of government that sorta worked (which as near as I can tell was the framers intention), to today, where if it isn't negative, it isn't said. The COVID bill is an excellent example - first, it was a Dem bill, which automatically put in the 'NO WAY' catagory for anyone with an R by their name. Second, regardless if there is a glimmer of positive anywhere to be found, it's immediately bulldozed with vitriol, and branded Another Poop Eating Democraptic Power Grabbing Communistic 'I Hate America' disaster.

And yes, it is ultimately the voter's fault, but it might not be so all-encompassing if the government (read Parties) were not four-square for turning politics into a professional sport where its one 'team' against the other, and winning is the goal, regardless of content or players. That's 90% of what the Parties push, while making every effort to push the voters buttons to keep them on the partisan track, and disgusted with the other party.

There is an old saying, "Whenever you have a group of three or more, you have a President, a Vice president and someone who is supposed to bring cookies." Politics is the same thing written large. It always has been.

 

[The Old Soul]

There is an old saying, "Whenever you have a group of three or more, you have a President, a Vice president and someone who is supposed to bring cookies." Politics is the same thing written large. It always has been.

How many does it take before the party starts? In a 'normal' world, it would take 3 more with the same pecking order - unless, its the era of the Trumpsters...then the first 3 would need something to go with their cookies, so the president brings a bottomless barrel of spiked coolaid and get the other two punch drunk. Party time! Well, private party time - lets get those other three before they do something constructive.

 

[Jay59]

How many does it take before the party starts? In a 'normal' world, it would take 3 more with the same pecking order - unless, its the era of the Trumpsters...then the first 3 would need something to go with their cookies, so the president brings a bottomless barrel of spiked coolaid and get the other two punch drunk. Party time! Well, private party time - lets get those other three before they do something constructive.

It's immediate. Sociologists would call it hardwired behavior.

If you are going to start throwing pejoratives, what's the point of having a discussion?

 

[The Old Soul]

It's immediate. Sociologists would call it hardwired behavior.
If you are going to start throwing pejoratives, what's the point of having a discussion?

Well, I'm still very green around the gills trying to figure out how to get into the discussions with my convictions; every post I make is either the last one before the thread hits the 10th page, or if I start a thread it amazes me if I even get a response. I tried being as neutral and non-offensive as possible in the postings I've made, but that get nowhere fast. if I start in with the badmouthing and side picking, I at least get scolded.

The basic premise of this thread, and many of the other comments I've made, are to point out and demonstrate the destructive nature of the 2 toxic parties that run this country, but it seems that unless I pick a party and go negative, I'm ignored. The 'party' game, and endless badmouthing and negativity really has caught on, and unless someone is clearly for or against a specific party instead of what today's toxic parties have become.

Nice guys finish last, right? But sometimes last place is the only guy that finishes.

 

[Craig234]

How many Republicans does it take to change a light bulb?

They all refuse, if a Democrat wants it changed. They all try to get to change it, if trump does (the old soul, shout out to your light bulb. That one looks harder to change.)

 

[diz]

It no longer matters whats IN a bill, just which PARTY is for it. Lets skip the formalities of content and go straight to the vote:

"The Virginia House passed the measure in a 48-43 vote, and the Senate approved it in a 20-19 vote. Not a single Republican voted for the bill in either chamber.
Virginia Legislature (DEMOCRATS) Legalize Adult-Use

Toxic Partisanship is destroying the premise this country was founded on; we are now an Inflexible Duopoly and no longer a country of the people.

I don’t see in what way this is not “rule of law”.

 

[The Old Soul]

How many Republicans does it take to change a light bulb?
They all refuse, if a Democrat wants it changed. They all try to get to change it, if trump does (the old soul, shout out to your light bulb. That one looks harder to change.)

It makes my sphincter dilate with joy, and light the path for good partisans to follow.

I don’t see in what way this is not “rule of law”.

Definition: The restriction of the arbitrary exercise of power by subordinating it to well-defined and established laws.
"when military dictators fall, the democrats who follow them must try to restore the rule of law"

 

[diz]

It makes my sphincter dilate with joy, and light the path for good partisans to follow.


Definition: The restriction of the arbitrary exercise of power by subordinating it to well-defined and established laws.
"when military dictators fall, the democrats who follow them must try to restore the rule of law"

OK, which established laws weren’t followed? That’s the part I missed.

 

[Maccabee]

It no longer matters whats IN a bill, just which PARTY is for it. Lets skip the formalities of content and go straight to the vote:

"The Virginia House passed the measure in a 48-43 vote, and the Senate approved it in a 20-19 vote. Not a single Republican voted for the bill in either chamber.
Virginia Legislature (DEMOCRATS) Legalize Adult-Use

Toxic Partisanship is destroying the premise this country was founded on; we are now an Inflexible Duopoly and no longer a country of the people.

The drug war is a dismal failure and marijuana isn't nearly as dangerous as some of the hard drugs. It's about time we legalize it or at least decriminalize it.

 

[NWRatCon]

Perotista and I have participated in numerous discussions around the development of party loyalty/extremism and the initiation of the current cycle by Reagan and then, and especially, Gingrich. There is not, I contend, an equality of intransigence. Rather, it is a specific artifact of the Republican effort to demonize "the left" and the democratic reaction to that effort.

But, that is not to say there aren't elements on the left that also call conservatives out as fascists, and whatnot, perhaps a little too fervently and indiscriminately. Too frequently of late, though, that has been an accurate descriptor. The autocratic tendencies of the last White House occupant, and the actual fascist views of some of his subordinates (Barr, Miller, Grinnell, etc.) and his most ardent admirers (including amongst our posting brethren) is hard to ignore. It is important, nonetheless, to segregate the normal "conservative" minority from the larger autocratic minority in discussions.

Perotista and I are both independents (I hope I'm not talking out of school), but I have made my bed with a major party because I don't think a third party is a viable option. He, I think, would prefer to pursue the third party route. In my opinion, our two party reality is an artifact of both natural selection and deliberate political manipulation. But the utter scorched earth status is not natural, at all. It is a manufactured status with a lot of causes, much of which is directly attributable to partisan gerrymandering. I think the elimination of that practice would do much to ameliorate that condition.

 

[joluoto]

And not even a fun party with funny hats.

Okay, they do have funny hats.

 

[Schism]

There are some center-left policies I support, and legalizing cannabis is one of them.

With that said, I believe Oregon has gone too far with decriminalizing narcotics.

 

[RetiredUSN]

It no longer matters whats IN a bill, just which PARTY is for it. Lets skip the formalities of content and go straight to the vote:

"The Virginia House passed the measure in a 48-43 vote, and the Senate approved it in a 20-19 vote. Not a single Republican voted for the bill in either chamber.
Virginia Legislature (DEMOCRATS) Legalize Adult-Use

Toxic Partisanship is destroying the premise this country was founded on; we are now an Inflexible Duopoly and no longer a country of the people.

Have you looked at the bill? The minority party leader was in favor of portions of the bill, but wants some things thought out before it's implemented.

 

[calamity]

I totally agree. In our modern era of politics, the polarization, divisiveness, mega, ultra high partisanship, it has become party first and always. Democrats automatic oppose anything proposed by Republicans, Republican automatically oppose anything proposed by democrats, no thought whatsoever is give to the merits of the proposal. Just who proposed it.

I also agree we now have rule by party, not of law. The party in power if they don't like a law, they ignore it and call it prosecutors discretion or something like that. So it boils down where we're ruled over by party ideologues.

Yep, and it’s not going to end well.

 

[Logician Man]

Yep, and it’s not going to end well.

I'm still shaking my head as to why so many sat on their collective tongues when Trump declared he willfully, and intentionally, lied about the severity of COVID because he was concerned that Americans "would panic" if he hadn't hidden the truth from us.