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Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contributions

Whovian

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Why is it that the White House can make apparently baseless accusations against political opponents, and those opponents have to prove the accusations are false? I'm was always taught 'innocent until proven guilty', not 'innocent unless you piss of Barack Obama'.

Rove, Gillespie Slam Obama for Spreading 'Baseless Lie' Over Foreign Contributions

Two top Republicans lit into President Obama and the Democratic Party Sunday over accusations that the GOP strategists and the Chamber of Commerce were using foreign contributions to influence the election, calling the claim a "baseless lie" and accusing the president of "abuse of power."

"So groups that receive foreign money are spending huge sums to influence American elections, and they won't tell you where the money for their ads come from," Obama said.

"They have not one shred of evidence to back up that baseless lie. This is a desperate and I think disturbing trend by the president of the United States to tar his political adversaries with some kind of, you know, enemies list unrestrained by any facts or evidence whatsoever," Rove said.

Asked about the charge, White House senior adviser David Axelrod put the onus on groups like the Chamber of Commerce to prove foreign money is not influencing the election.

"No one knows where the money's coming from," he said on CBS' "Face the Nation." "Why not simply disclose where this money is from and then all these questions will be answered?"

But Gillespie said the idea that the White House could lob charges and then leave it up to the accused to refute them is an "unbelievable mentality."

"David Axelrod is either woefully uninformed or willfully deceptive and dishonest," Gillespie said.
 

Dezaad

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

It will only be a matter of time before entities are set up to channel foreign money into democratic coffers. You republicans are going to be ok with that, I guess. I know I'm not.
 

TacticalEvilDan

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

It's called "spin" and "politics."

Both sides have a history of this kind of nonsense.

Just saying.
 

Whovian

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

It will only be a matter of time before entities are set up to channel foreign money into democratic coffers. You republicans are going to be ok with that, I guess. I know I'm not.

No, I am not OK with that. And there is ZERO proof being offered by the administration for their accusations. If they HAD proof, and produced it, I'd be agreeing with them.

Do you approve of the administration making accusations without proof, and then saying the 'guilty party' should prove their innocence?
 

Ned Racine

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

Which wealthy Foreign Governments hoped in 2008 that Obama Win the Presidency(???) What MSM outlet or organization even begun any proper vetting of this guy (??)
 

RosieS

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

No, I am not OK with that. And there is ZERO proof being offered by the administration for their accusations. If they HAD proof, and produced it, I'd be agreeing with them.

Do you approve of the administration making accusations without proof, and then saying the 'guilty party' should prove their innocence?

Oh, no pity party for you. Blame the Supreme Court if you don't like it. The President is only making good use of the bad ruling that he himself decried in the State of the Union address.

Y'all liked the secret corporate donations ruling so much, and then scream bloody murder at the application of it. So put up by coffing up the donors, or shut up.

It's called 'hoist by your own petard'.

Regards from Rosie
 
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Dezaad

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

No, I am not OK with that. And there is ZERO proof being offered by the administration for their accusations. If they HAD proof, and produced it, I'd be agreeing with them.

Do you approve of the administration making accusations without proof, and then saying the 'guilty party' should prove their innocence?

I wouldn't approve it much, but I don't think it is as big a deal as foreign entities being able to secretly affect our elections.
 

Councilman

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

Saul Alinsky's Rules for radicals say:

Rule 11: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it. Don’t try to attack abstract corporations or bureaucracies. Identify a responsible individual. Ignore attempts to shift or spread the blame.

According to Alinsky, the main job of the organizer is to bait an opponent into reacting. “The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength.”
I believe it because I see Obama using the Quotes of Adolph Hitler as a Guide to his actions. I'm not calling him a Hitler.

If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.
Adolf Hitler

It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.
Adolf Hitler

It is not truth that matters, but victory.
Adolf Hitler

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
Adolf Hitler


Also note the use of this unidentified funding is used on all sides with origins unknown to the opposition. So it's a wild claim he can not prove but it sounds bad and it's all about initial effect.

Obama master of of deception and illusion, lies and he has one defining characteristic and that is he is a good organizer when it it comes to the ways of lies and use of this deception.

Other than that he's a failure.
 
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Whovian

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

Oh, no pity party for you. Blame the Supreme Court if you don't like it. The President is only making good use of the bad ruling that he himself decried in the State of the Union address.

Y'all liked the secret corporate donations ruling so much, and then scream bloody murder at the application of it. So put up by coffing up the donors, or shut up.

It's called 'hoist by your own petard'.

Regards from Rosie

typical koolaide drinker response. Again, the presumption of innocence is what I was taught growing up. Perhaps you were taught differently?
 

Whovian

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

I wouldn't approve it much, but I don't think it is as big a deal as foreign entities being able to secretly affect our elections.

again... accusations without evidence.

This is equally as wrong and stupid as the 'birthers' claiming Obama isn't a US citizen because he would not provide an actual birth certificate. They claimed guilt, and said he should prove his innocence.

To the best of my recollection, the vast majority of Obama supporters thought that was wrong, and that Obama should not have had to 'prove his innocence' so to speak, in the matter.
 

apdst

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

It will only be a matter of time before entities are set up to channel foreign money into democratic coffers. You republicans are going to be ok with that, I guess. I know I'm not.

So, you are pissed off that Obama's campaign took foreign money, yes?
 

RosieS

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

typical koolaide drinker response. Again, the presumption of innocence is what I was taught growing up. Perhaps you were taught differently?

You saying this situation wasn't caused by the Supreme Court? Y'all want the secrecy for some reason. If the reason is an innocent one, the accusation shouldn't be anything to be upset about. Rove's reaction demonstrates that Obama hit the target.

The President provided a copy of his birth certificate AND the Republican Governor of Hawaii saw the original and attests to it. So proof was given of innocence - Obama is not foreign born.

If the GOP is indeed innocent, it's easy enuff to prove, just as the President proved being born in Hawaii.

Where's the crime? It's only the Feds. that can't sentence you without trial...where's the charges? Where's the need for habeas corpus ? Who are all y'all hiding?

You all got so put out by Al Gore getting donations from Buddhist monks IN THE U.S., so how much worse is money from overseas corporations wanting to offshore American jobs by buying GOP influence than what Gore did? A whole lot worse. And you're oh so upset because you know it.

Until shown otherwise, the GOP is beholden to foreign donors. Rove's outrage attests to THAT. Too bad, so sad for you. You also seem to have a serious problem with taking it like a man.

Regards from Rosie
 
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Whovian

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

You saying this situation wasn't caused by the Supreme Court? Y'all want the secrecy for some reason. If the reason is an innocent one, the accusation shouldn't be anything to be upset about. Rove's reaction demonstrates that Obama hit the target.

The President provided a copy of his birth certificate AND the Republican Governor of Hawaii saw the original and attests to it. So proof was given of innocence - Obama is not foreign born.

If the GOP is indeed innocent, it's easy enuff to prove, just as the President proved being born in Hawaii.

Where's the crime? It's only the Feds. that can't sentence you without trial...where's the charges? Where's the need for habeas corpus ? Who are all y'all hiding?

You all got so put out by Al Gore getting donations from Buddhist monks IN THE U.S., so how much worse is money from overseas corporations wanting to offshore American jobs by buying GOP influence than what Gore did? A whole lot worse. And you're oh so upset because you know it.

Until shown otherwise, the GOP is beholden to foreign donors. Rove's outrage attests to THAT. Too bad, so sad for you. You also seem to have a serious problem with taking it like a man.

Regards from Rosie
I love how some of you liberals are now saying 'prove what we claim is wrong, or you're guilty'. It's ridiculous.

BTW.. note the use of SOME in my statement, as opposed to 'ALL YOU' in yours. You're making generalizations, which again is a typical response from some liberals.

Also, in case you simply had your liberal weenie glasses on too tight... I agreed with you on the birth certificate issue.
 

Morality Games

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

I love how some of you liberals are now saying 'prove what we claim is wrong, or you're guilty'. It's ridiculous.

BTW.. note the use of SOME in my statement, as opposed to 'ALL YOU' in yours. You're making generalizations, which again is a typical response from some liberals.

Also, in case you simply had your liberal weenie glasses on too tight... I agreed with you on the birth certificate issue.

One result of America's love of free speech is that we are willing to accommodate a high degree of slander and libel. Consequently, our laws have are pretty indulgent when it comes to enforcing honesty.

I would say calling Obama a 'socialist' or 'fascist' constitutes slander or libel by the dictionary definition, but not so under the law.
 
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zimmer

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

Obama believes the Tea Party is a foreign entity? Good try trying to turn the discussion Obi.
FAIL.
You can't fool all the people all the time.

McObi

Hope and Change have died, have departed to the hereafter;
Alinsky and Axelrod say there is a time for such words as...
Hope, Hope, Hope and Change... yet
Creeps Obi's petty presidency from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
Illustrating he is a fool.
Leading head first the way to political death. Out, out, dim lightbulb!
His presidency is a slim shady, he a poor player
That struts and teleprompts his hour upon the stage
Only to be discovered for his true being: it is a tale
Of a full idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing... but incompetence.

.
 
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Thorgasm

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

Conservatives are taking this very seriously. That's what this thread is about.

That's why they treated Gore like he was guilty in 2000, right? ;)
 

PeteEU

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

Conservatives are taking this very seriously. That's what this thread is about.

The hell they are HAHAHA.. they are benefiting hugely for defending the US Chamber of Commerce and its massive ad buying in favour of the right.

And because the US Chamber of Commerce is quite secretive on where it gets its money from, then it is very easy to accuse it of getting funds from abroad, since it has quite a few non-US business as members. BP for example, has contributed to the US Chamber of Commerce... now did the US Chamber of Commerce use these funds to buy partisan ads for the Republican party and Tea Party? See... no one but the US Chamber of Commerce knows, and they of course are denying it... but should we trust them? Hell no.

But as a non-American.. it is nice to know that we now can legally sneak massive funds into the US to fund the candidates of our choice :) Thanks Republican party!
 

Dezaad

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

again... accusations without evidence.

.

Are foreign entities unable to mke secret contributions to influence our elections. The answer is yes they are. Do they? That is another matter, but I didn't make an accusation.
 
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j-mac

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

Are foreign entities unable to mke secret contributions to influence our elections. The answer is yes they are. Do they? That is another matter, but I didn't make an accusation.

Think we could have a look at the donors list for Obama's '08 campaign? So far he is keeping that a secret....Why?


j-mac
 

Whovian

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

are foreign entities unable to mke secret contributions to influence our elections. The answer is yes they are. Do they? That is another matter, but i didn't make an accusation.

it's a vast right wing conspiracy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :roll:
 

Whovian

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

Think we could have a look at the donors list for Obama's '08 campaign? So far he is keeping that a secret....Why?


j-mac

Various pieces of the list have been released, or discovered...

LINK

An analysis of campaign finance records by The New York Times this week found nearly 3,000 donations to Mr. Obama, the Democratic nominee, from more than a dozen people with apparently fictitious donor information. The contributions represent a tiny fraction of the record $450 million Mr. Obama has raised. But the questionable donations — some donors were listed simply with gibberish for their names — raise concerns about whether the Obama campaign is adequately vetting its unprecedented flood of donors.
 

Whovian

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Re: Guilty until proven innocent... according to the White House

Obama Scales Back Campaign Finance Criticism After Claims Decried as 'Baseless'

President Obama on Sunday scaled back his claim that Republicans are taking foreign money for their campaigns, using slightly more ambiguous language at a rally in Philadelphia after GOP strategists warned Democrats against telling "baseless" lies to win votes...

Obama, speaking at a Philadelphia rally Sunday, hammered the campaign finance theme but left open the question of whether anybody is violating U.S. law by using foreign money.

"There's no question the other side sees a chance to get back in the driver's seat," Obama said. "They are being helped along this year by special interest groups that are spending unlimited amounts of money on attack ads ... just attacking people without ever disclosing who's behind all these attack ads. You don't know. It could be the oil industry. It could be the insurance industry. It could even be foreign-owned corporations. You don't know because they don't have to disclose."

From 'They are...' down to 'They could be'...

I doubt we'll ever get to 'We just don't know, so we made stuff up to win votes...'
 
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