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Rough times ahead for NATO?

Dittohead not!

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[h=1]Putin is watching happily from the sidelines as NATO tears itself apart[/h]
[FONT=&quot]Russian President Vladimir Putin seemingly cannot believe his luck as he watches NATO cause near irreparable harm to itself from the sidelines.

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At the heart of NATO's declining stature is the candidacy of Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump and the failed coup in Turkey. Trump [/FONT]suggested recently that he would not necessarily extend[FONT=&quot] the security guarantee inherent in NATO's Article 5 to all 28 members of the alliance. Given a hypothetical of Russia attacking a Baltic State, Trump[/FONT]said[FONT=&quot] that he would provide aid contingent upon whether the state had "fulfilled their obligations to us."


[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The failed coup in Turkey has also deeply shaken the military alliance. Turkey has the second-largest military in NATO and provides vital security to the alliance's eastern and southern flanks. However, since the failed putsch, Turkey is rapidly moving away from NATO, the US, and the West as a whole. [/FONT]

Not to mention that Turkey is a base from which we're fighting ISIS.
 

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It is believed that Edrogan staged that coup in order to purge military officers who are not symphonic to the idea of new Islamic government.

Obama, in his weakness has encouraged this NATO tin pot dictator to do his thing.

Turkey was the Ottoman Empire - the last and most powerful Muslim caliphate. Chalk up one more miserable loss to the Obama/Hillary tag team of incompetence.

A US vs Russian conflict could happen here if we don't overthrow Erdogan. It's is a critical and strategic sea lane. Iran is in the mix with the Chinese and the Russians. Wonder bleeding full.
 

Dittohead not!

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It is believed that Edrogan staged that coup in order to purge military officers who are not symphonic to the idea of new Islamic government.

Obama, in his weakness has encouraged this NATO tin pot dictator to do his thing.

Turkey was the Ottoman Empire - the last and most powerful Muslim caliphate. Chalk up one more miserable loss to the Obama/Hillary tag team of incompetence.

A US vs Russian conflict could happen here if we don't overthrow Erdogan. It's is a critical and strategic sea lane. Iran is in the mix with the Chinese and the Russians. Wonder bleeding full.

So, Obama and Clinton are responsible for the rise of the Ottoman Empire. Good to know. I wonder if the historians realize that.

If "we" don't over throw Erdogan? Who is we?
 

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Jetboogieman

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It is believed that Edrogan staged that coup in order to purge military officers who are not symphonic to the idea of new Islamic government.

While I think there's some merit to the idea... There needs to be further proof.

Obama, in his weakness has encouraged this NATO tin pot dictator to do his thing.

The greatest arrogance of many Americans, is just because you are powerful, you think you can control everything that happens in every country all the time... This has absolutely nothing to do with Obama and alot more to do with Europe, that can't apply pressure on Edrogan because he's holding all the cards in the migrant crisis.

Turkey was the Ottoman Empire - the last and most powerful Muslim caliphate. Chalk up one more miserable loss to the Obama/Hillary tag team of incompetence.

DA MAZLIMZ ARE COMING!

:roll:

A US vs Russian conflict could happen here if we don't overthrow Erdogan. It's is a critical and strategic sea lane. Iran is in the mix with the Chinese and the Russians. Wonder bleeding full.

Straight from the wonderful world of a Trump supporter... Totally outside all reality.
 

chuckiechan

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While I think there's some merit to the idea... There needs to be further proof.



The greatest arrogance of many Americans, is just because you are powerful, you think you can control everything that happens in every country all the time... This has absolutely nothing to do with Obama and alot more to do with Europe, that can't apply pressure on Edrogan because he's holding all the cards in the migrant crisis.



DA MAZLIMZ ARE COMING!

:roll:



Straight from the wonderful world of a Trump supporter... Totally outside all reality.

If you want Europe flooded with Muslims be my guest. All they want is to throw the infidel inhabitants out. Seems reasonable.
 

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[h=1]Putin is watching happily from the sidelines as NATO tears itself apart[/h]






Not to mention that Turkey is a base from which we're fighting ISIS.

Regarding NATO, Turkey is an outlier and mostly has been from the beginning. To equate the turmoil in Turkey with NATO as a whole would be a fatal mistake for Mr. Putin or anyone else for that matter. Even if Turkey was removed from NATO membership, NATO and it's non-member partners (Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, and many others), would still be the strongest most viable coalition in the world.
 

Dittohead not!

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Regarding NATO, Turkey is an outlier and mostly has been from the beginning. To equate the turmoil in Turkey with NATO as a whole would be a fatal mistake for Mr. Putin or anyone else for that matter. Even if Turkey was removed from NATO membership, NATO and it's non-member partners (Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, and many others), would still be the strongest most viable coalition in the world.

As long as a president Trump doesn't lead America out of the coalition.
 

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[h=1]Putin is watching happily from the sidelines as NATO tears itself apart[/h]






Not to mention that Turkey is a base from which we're fighting ISIS.

The NATO alliance, in my opinion, is rightly strained. There are two many members, my own country of Canada included, who are not carrying their weight in the alliance. My country, and to a greater extent other countries, need to start living up to their commitments in the NATO charter and stop shortchanging their military responsibilities simply because America spends far more than any other member.

In many respects, NATO was wrong to let the Balkan countries into NATO after they gained freedom when the Soviet Union crumbled. They were ill equipped to meet responsibilities under the charter and simply became protectorates of the west - all responsibility and no benefits. Likewise with Turkey. Although Turkey has the largest military in the region and I believe the third largest in NATO, they are not a stable democracy and may never be one. They are a rouge actor, as witnessed by their treatment of Kurds and the shooting down of the Russian jet last year, and one that could potentially draw the west into a quagmire that nobody wants.

In my view, NATO should have remained a collective of those countries who fought with the Allies in WWII, allowing only Germany and Italy as kindred states in Europe.
 

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jetboogieman said:
The greatest arrogance of many Americans, is just because you are powerful, you think you can control everything that happens in every country all the time... This has absolutely nothing to do with Obama and alot more to do with Europe, that can't apply pressure on Edrogan because he's holding all the cards in the migrant crisis.

My arrogance is Europe being destroyed by a foreign culture that seeks to dominate rather than assimilate. A Turkish and Russian alliance could mean extracting concessions from "free" Europe in exchange for controlling Islamic immigration, not to mention the terrorists components mixed in as an implied threat from Russia.
 

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As long as a president Trump doesn't lead America out of the coalition.

I can understand your concern given the stupid stuff he's said about NATO (other than the part of other nations paying their agreed upon 2% of GDP) But, I would suggest that before he speaks about it further or you or anyone gets concerned any further that he, and you, and anyone else concerned read the Constitution, specifically Article II, Section 2, Clause 2, AKA - the Treaty Clause. The Senate has to approve such actions regarding treaties with a two-thirds vote. Trump would have to get 2/3rds of the Senate to agree with him. As we say in the South, that dog won't hunt.
 

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It seems we still have it, at least for now. I'm not sure just how politically stable it is just now though.

Good point. It isn't politically stable at all, other than the stability by force of gun and under pain of death by the tyrant Erdogan. Just ask the 10's of thousands of people he rounded up in the post coup purge.
 

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NATO is about paying your share for the hazardous burden we all must share.

For example, suppose Russia invades Poland. Will America fight Russia on their behalf when they won't even fund it?

Putin bets we won't. I bet if we do, we will lose over the question "what's it worth to you?". US voters think Poland is a sausage.
 

Dittohead not!

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I can understand your concern given the stupid stuff he's said about NATO (other than the part of other nations paying their agreed upon 2% of GDP) But, I would suggest that before he speaks about it further or you or anyone gets concerned any further that he, and you, and anyone else concerned read the Constitution, specifically Article II, Section 2, Clause 2, AKA - the Treaty Clause. The Senate has to approve such actions regarding treaties with a two-thirds vote. Trump would have to get 2/3rds of the Senate to agree with him. As we say in the South, that dog won't hunt.

True, but has Trump read the Constitution?

And, will the Congress hold him to it?
 

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It is believed that Edrogan staged that coup in order to purge military officers who are not symphonic to the idea of new Islamic government.

Obama, in his weakness has encouraged this NATO tin pot dictator to do his thing.

Turkey was the Ottoman Empire - the last and most powerful Muslim caliphate. Chalk up one more miserable loss to the Obama/Hillary tag team of incompetence.

A US vs Russian conflict could happen here if we don't overthrow Erdogan. It's is a critical and strategic sea lane. Iran is in the mix with the Chinese and the Russians. Wonder bleeding full.

I dont think he has the talent to get that done.

Putin on the other hand....
 

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Beaudreaux

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True, but has Trump read the Constitution?
I can't imagine that he has, or if he understood it if he did. But, that's not unusual for politicians.

And, will the Congress hold him to it?
You got to remember, that Hillary would just have the Republicans to hold her feet to the fire and would be politically Impeachment proof because of being the first woman President just as Obama is for being the first black President - Trump will have all the Democrats and most of the Republicans that would not only hold him under control, but would probably vote almost happily to impeach him in the House as well as convict and remove him from office in the Senate. So yeah, the Senate would never allow him to screw up NATO.
 

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Oh FFS...all this Russian/Putin boogieman stuff is ridiculous. We have more in common with Russia than we do with Turkey yet we have the latter in NATO and the former we are trying to rekindle the Cold War with, and have been for a long time.

Why is everyone always scared of Russia?
 

Dittohead not!

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Its quite a stretch to link Trump to any of this. He isn't president. Obama is. If NATO is 'tearing itself apart' an objective analysis would mention Obama. After all, he is president and has been for nearly 8 years. A partisan analysis leaves him out and heaps blame at the feet of Trump.

who is the one who said that he wouldn't go in to the Balkans.

Loose lips.
 

Dittohead not!

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I can't imagine that he has, or if he understood it if he did. But, that's not unusual for politicians.

You got to remember, that Hillary would just have the Republicans to hold her feet to the fire and would be politically Impeachment proof because of being the first woman President just as Obama is for being the first black President - Trump will have all the Democrats and most of the Republicans that would not only hold him under control, but would probably vote almost happily to impeach him in the House as well as convict and remove him from office in the Senate. So yeah, the Senate would never allow him to screw up NATO.

Sounds good to me.
I hope you're right.
 

Dittohead not!

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Oh FFS...all this Russian/Putin boogieman stuff is ridiculous. We have more in common with Russia than we do with Turkey yet we have the latter in NATO and the former we are trying to rekindle the Cold War with, and have been for a long time.

Why is everyone always scared of Russia?

Godless Commies.
 
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