Rising Sea Level Threatening Coastal Areas

[MoSurveyor]

Seems like just the other day they said the last 15 years would see a dramatic spike in temp, they were wrong. why do you believe their new sky is falling prediction?

You're taught that the three angles of a triangle add up to 180°, too, but anyone who has ever measured a very large triangle on the ground will tell you that's wrong. Do you go back and tell the mathematicians that their a+b+c = 180° is crap? Or do you stop and look at the conditions required for a+b+c = 180° to be true? Clearly, the anti-science crowd prefers the former course of action even though it's incorrect.

Now you would add to your Denial by also saying, 2+2 can't equal four because the mathematicians were wrong last time and must be wrong, again. LOL!

 

[Fisher]

"No Big deal" if you are clueless about basic world geography.


Cities don't have to be below sea level to be dramatically effected by sea level rise. (and even minor storms)

Not a thing you or we can do about it but learn to swim, and we will be dead by then and until then I still have close to 1,000 feet buffer MSL, so no big deal.

 

[Lord of Planar]

If you agree with the OP that sea levels are rising, its still a problem to be solved not ignored just because its been happening for a while

I agree the sea level is rising. I don't think anyone who understands the sciences disagrees. We don't really know what is natural and what we can address with any degree of certainty. It used to be thought that thermal expansion of the ocean accounted for about half the sea level rise. Since those estimates a decade or so back, it has been discovered recently that the ocean has warmed more than originally thought. Then how much of the ice sheets melting can be controlled? probably little to none. Then tectonic actions as well actually raise and lower the plates at times, but small amounts.

There are known seasonal times when the earth-moon barycenter and alignment to the sun also changes the degree of tidal changes. I think about the best we can do is understand that certain timers of celestial alignment can make storm damage more or less than average.

I personally think the only control we have is controlling soot from Asia. Not CO2, but this becomes a topic better addressed in a different thread.

Now, as for a seawall. I'm no mechanical or structural engineer, but I think the best solutions at the beach are to have solid concrete pillars at intervals as needed for strength of holding back the water. Then when storms are coming, preparation can be made to put in solid walls between the pillars, like we do here in Portland. Even if they don't keep water from going over the tops, it would keep too much sand from flushing back out to sea.

 

[CanadaJohn]

This really is just anti-Obama fear mongering.

We all know that Obama promised when he gained the nomination back in 2008 that "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow, and our planet began to heal."

And we all know that Obama has never uttered an untrue word and never overestimated his influence so I don't believe for a minute that the oceans are rising.

 

[Lord of Planar]

You're trying to compare a one-mile-long temporary flood wall (it's not really a sea wall if it's not subject to ocean tides and waves) to the hundreds of miles of New York coastline? Get real.

Well, what else can they do if they want to mitigate the damage from nature? I'm thinking of something larger scale, as I pointed out in my last post.

Yes, it's technically on the Willamette River, it's not a "sea wall" but it does well for up to a certain flood stage level. The temporary is an extension on top on the one built almost 100 years ago. It's easily erected to about 4', but cam probably be much more if needed. In '96, it kept lower downtown Portland from being flooded. Without it, parts of Portland would probably be as much as 6' under water. Maybe more. I don't know how far below the seawall the lower parts of Portland are. For all I know, they could flood 10' or more.

 

[polgara]

This really is just anti-Obama fear mongering.

We all know that Obama promised when he gained the nomination back in 2008 that "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow, and our planet began to heal."

And we all know that Obama has never uttered an untrue word and never overestimated his influence so I don't believe for a minute that the oceans are rising.

Good evening, CJ! :2wave:

:agree: It's probably just those propaganda-spreading scientists trying to scare us again! Honestly! :mrgreen:

 

[CanadaJohn]

Good evening, CJ! :2wave:

:agree: It's probably just those propaganda-spreading scientists trying to scare us again! Honestly! :mrgreen:

You're probably right Lady P, or maybe Al Gore looking to make a few more $millions off the naive.

Good evening to you too Lady P - did you have a good business trip last week?

 

[bubbabgone]

This really is just anti-Obama fear mongering.

We all know that Obama promised when he gained the nomination back in 2008 that "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow, and our planet began to heal."

And we all know that Obama has never uttered an untrue word and never overestimated his influence so I don't believe for a minute that the oceans are rising.

Remember when he said energy prices would necessarily skyrocket ... and they did.
Is there a quote of him saying health insurance premiums would necessarily skyrocket ... because they will.

 

[MoSurveyor]

Well, what else can they do if they want to mitigate the damage from nature? I'm thinking of something larger scale, as I pointed out in my last post.

Yes, it's technically on the Willamette River, it's not a "sea wall" but it does well for up to a certain flood stage level. The temporary is an extension on top on the one built almost 100 years ago. It's easily erected to about 4', but cam probably be much more if needed. In '96, it kept lower downtown Portland from being flooded. Without it, parts of Portland would probably be as much as 6' under water. Maybe more. I don't know how far below the seawall the lower parts of Portland are. For all I know, they could flood 10' or more.

They'll have to built permanent structures from most areas. They'll probably end up with sliding doors (big, massive concrete sliding doors most likely) for the tunnels and some subway access points, there's no other good choice for those things. Certainly, increased sump pumps for the storm water drainage system. Many, many things considering where we're talking about. I can see where it could end up in the billions. But, hey, look at how much they spent on the Boston freeway tunnel. :shrug:


They'd probably have to increase the thickness of the steel (with resultant increase in weight and ease of installation) if they went more than 4'. I tried accessing on-line information but couldn't get any definite answer to the top elevation of the permanent flood wall. I did d/l a USGS Quad map so if I had the elevation information I could easily figure it out. Do you know where that information might be found?

 

[polgara]

You're probably right Lady P, or maybe Al Gore looking to make a few more $millions off the naive.

Good evening to you too Lady P - did you have a good business trip last week?

I had a six-day trip planned, but it hasn't ended yet! :shock: Sent PM.....

 

[mbig]

So instead of an honest answer to this Excellently sourced OP, ie:

Sawerloggingon just SPAMS up another Denial string on the SAME Topic from some Crackpot Link with a PO Box number in Australia.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/environment-and-climate-issues/163765-rising-sea-level-myth.html
AS IF any link is a good source.

These are Despicable Propagandist tactics.

 

[longview]

Lets try this link.
Sea Levels Online - Mean Sea Level Trend
The Graph is the tide gauge at the Battery in NY, and has over a 160 year trend.
.91 feet per Century.
This means that for the actual sea levels to reach even the "intermediate-low" estimate,
the rise will have to double it's 160 year trend.

 

[mbig]

That's correct. Based on Global temperature increase/Accelerating Warming, they are predicting about 5x the rise for the 21st C as we had in the 20th.
See graphic above.

 

[Lord of Planar]

That's correct. Based on Global temperature increase/Accelerating Warming, they are predicting about 5x the rise for the 21st C as we had in the 20th.
See graphic above.

Well...

Do you really think that projecting a long term trend change from short term data is the move of someone wise, or the move of someone with an agenda?

 

[sawyerloggingon]

If you Goggle effects of rising sea levels due to global warming you get dire predictions but no real effects from supposed recent rises except for the crackpots saying storms are worse now. The fact is even warmer sites have to admit you really can't quantify or prove conclusively what the real sea level rise in the last 100 years has been.

"Sea level change is difficult to measure. Relative sea level changes have been derived mainly from tide-gauge data. In the conventional tide-gauge system, the sea level is measured relative to a land-based tide-gauge benchmark. The major problem is that the land experiences vertical movements (e.g. from isostatic effects, neotectonism, and sedimentation), and these get incorporated into the measurements. However, improved methods of filtering out the effects of long-term vertical land movements, as well as a greater reliance on the longest tide-gauge records for estimating trends, have provided greater confidence that the volume of ocean water has indeed been increasing, causing the sea level to rise within the given range.

It is likely that much of the rise in sea level has been related to the concurrent rise in global temperature over the last 100 years. On this time scale, the warming and the consequent thermal expansion of the oceans may account for about 2-7 cm of the observed sea level rise, while the observed retreat of glaciers and ice caps may account for about 2-5 cm. Other factors are more difficult to quantify. The rate of observed sea level rise suggests that there has been a net positive contribution from the huge ice sheets of Greenland and Antarctica, but observations of the ice sheets do not yet allow meaningful quantitative estimates of their separate contributions. The ice sheets remain a major source of uncertainty in accounting for past changes in sea level because of insufficient data about these ice sheets over the last 100 years"



Sea level rise due to global warming | GRID-Arendal - Publications - Vital Climate Graphics

 

[sawyerloggingon]

That's correct. Based on Global temperature increase/Accelerating Warming, they are predicting about 5x the rise for the 21st C as we had in the 20th.
See graphic above.

"They" predicted the earth would warm at the same rate C02 levels rose over the last 15 years. "They" were very wrong. Why should we base our energy policy on what "they" predict?

 

[mbig]

"They" predicted the earth would warm at the same rate C02 levels rose over the last 15 years. "They" were very wrong. Why should we base our energy policy on what "they" predict?

NO one predicts that there aren't uneven see-saws in a General UP-trend.

As to the "last 15 years".. that's curious because the warmest 10 years on record were ALL IN that time period.

Instrumental temperature record - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

10 warmest years on record (°C anomaly from 1901–2000 mean)

Year - Global - Land - Ocean
2010 0.6590 1.0748 0.5027
2005 0.6523 1.0505 0.5007
1998 0.6325 0.9351 0.5160
2003 0.6219 0.8859 0.5207
2002 0.6130 0.9351 0.4902
2006 0.5978 0.9091 0.4792
2009 0.5957 0.8621 0.4953
2007 0.5914 1.0886 0.3900
2004 0.5779 0.8132 0.4885
2012 0.5728 0.8968 0.4509

 

[Samhain]

NO one predicts that there aren't uneven see-saws in a General UP-trend.

As TO the "last 15 years".. that's curious because:

Instrumental temperature record - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

10 warmest years on record (°C anomaly from 1901–2000 mean)

Year - Global - Land - Ocean
2010 0.6590 1.0748 0.5027
2005 0.6523 1.0505 0.5007
1998 0.6325 0.9351 0.5160
2003 0.6219 0.8859 0.5207
2002 0.6130 0.9351 0.4902
2006 0.5978 0.9091 0.4792
2009 0.5957 0.8621 0.4953
2007 0.5914 1.0886 0.3900
2004 0.5779 0.8132 0.4885
2012 0.5728 0.8968 0.4509

What were the levels pre-1901?

 

[MoSurveyor]

If you Goggle effects of rising sea levels due to global warming you get dire predictions but no real effects from supposed recent rises except for the crackpots saying storms are worse now. The fact is even warmer sites have to admit you really can't quantify or prove conclusively what the real sea level rise in the last 100 years has been.

Straddling the equator and spread over 3.5 million sq km (2 million sq miles) of otherwise empty ocean, Kiribati's 32 atolls and one raised coral island have an average height above sea level of just two meters (6-1/2 feet).

Studies show surrounding sea levels rising at about 2.9 mm a year, well above the global average of 1 - 2 mm a year.

Kiribati President Anote Tong has grimly predicted his country will likely become uninhabitable in 30-60 years because of inundation and contamination of its fresh water supplies.

Tide of humanity, as well as rising seas, lap at Kiribati's future | Reuters

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Tide of humanity, as well as rising seas, lap at Kiribati's future | Reuters

Still just the same dire predictions BS. The island as of now is still there. Having said that any island barely above sea level is living on borrowed time. The planet has been warming and sea levels have been rising since the last ice age. They could get lucky though and the earths climate could start going the other way. I wouldn't invest in real estate there though.:lol:

 

[MoSurveyor]

Still just the same dire predictions BS. The island as of now is still there. Having said that any island barely above sea level is living on borrowed time. The planet has been warming and sea levels have been rising since the last ice age. They could get lucky though and the earths climate could start going the other way. I wouldn't invest in real estate there though.:lol:

You wanted "real effects" (your words) and I provided them. Obviously your Google search wasn't very good.

 

[longview]

Still just the same dire predictions BS. The island as of now is still there. Having said that any island barely above sea level is living on borrowed time. The planet has been warming and sea levels have been rising since the last ice age. They could get lucky though and the earths climate could start going the other way. I wouldn't invest in real estate there though.:lol:

My house is at 29 feet, and the closest tide station shows some of the fastest rise in the country.
I am not concerned.
Sea Level Trends
Most of Galveston's rise is subsidence which can dwarf the sea level rise.
Sea Levels Online - Mean Sea Level Trend
Sea level rise average 2.4 feet per century.
Some areas around here have subsided over 8 feet in less than 40 years.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

You wanted "real effects" (your words) and I provided them. Obviously your Google search wasn't very good.

As I said the islands still there so there are no real effects just more dire predictions. The reality is even this barely above sea level island has not experienced any real effects from all this supposed sea level rise.

 

[Lord of Planar]

My house is at 29 feet, and the closest tide station shows some of the fastest rise in the country.
I am not concerned.
Sea Level Trends
Most of Galveston's rise is subsidence which can dwarf the sea level rise.
Sea Levels Online - Mean Sea Level Trend
Sea level rise average 2.4 feet per century.
Some areas around here have subsided over 8 feet in less than 40 years.

I wonder how many people know what "subsidence" is. I would like them to explain to us how global warming causes it.

 

[MoSurveyor]

As I said the islands still there so there are no real effects just more dire predictions. The reality is even this barely above sea level island has not experienced any real effects from all this supposed sea level rise.

Nearly 35 years on, a simple equation raises a fearsome scenario: the population is growing fast, while the fresh water supply is diminishing. Indeed, as sea levels rise, the water lens shrinks because it is being pushed upwards.

The harder evidence of climate change affecting Kiribati can be seen on South Tarawa atoll. Large tracts of land have been inundated by the sea. Marooned houses lie among the scores of dead, limp coconut trees killed by salt. Sea walls are collapsing into the atoll and ocean. Even the underside of the airport’s runway threshold is being eaten away. Food shortages, exacerbated by the lack of land for growing crops, are becoming more frequent. Earlier this year, Kiribati had to import large quantities of food from the Marshall Islands.

Kiribati: A Nation Going Under | The Global Mail

Sea level rise and the ongoing Battle of Tarawa - Donner - 2012 - Eos, Transactions American Geophysical Union - Wiley Online Library