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reverse damages

clone

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i hope all you enviormentalists realize that whatever damage we do to the ozone, we can repair. its simple chemistry, ever reaction has a reverse reaction.
 

nkgupta80

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yeah but the process for doing the reverse may be much much harder
 

shuamort

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Yeah, it's easy to blow up a building and quite cheap. Rebuilding it, why that takes a lot more time, money, and support.
 

clone

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the point is that when the time comes, we can do it if we want to.
these crazed hippies need to get back to their smoking...
 

shuamort

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clone said:
the point is that when the time comes, we can do it if we want to.
these crazed hippies need to get back to their smoking...
You're still missing the bigger picture.
 

clone

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so why not show it to me?
 

Simon W. Moon

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clone said:
the point is that when the time comes, we can do it if we want to.
these crazed hippies need to get back to their smoking...
Assuming that what you're averring is true...
The question is "What is the better and/or more effcient use of resources?"

Is the cost in man-hours, resources and money necessary to "repair the ozone layer" a better way to expend man-hours, resources and money than doing what is necessary to avoid damaging the ozone layer?

I mean, if I wreck my car, I can have it repaired, or buy a new one. However, this is not an optimal use of my resources. It's better that I take measures to avoid wrecking my car so that I can allocate my resources to different, and IMHO, better things than repairing my car or buying a new one.
 

shuamort

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Simon W. Moon said:
I mean, if I wreck my car, I can have it repaired, or buy a new one. However, this is not an optimal use of my resources. It's better that I take measures to avoid wrecking my car so that I can allocate my resources to different, and IMHO, better things than repairing my car or buying a new one.
Of course, wrecking your car might not be the only casuality of the situation as is wrecking the ozone. When your car crashes, it could take out a tree, a deer, or even a farmer's market. The damage to the ozone might not just be a temporary problem with no rippling reprocussions either. Of course, it's hard to understand the environmental impact of anything as it has to be judged over the course of a long period of time. I'd rather play it safe.
 

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your absolutely right, the better use of resources is...something other than flying a plane and spraying some simple chemicals. yes i can see how that is very costly.

the amount of resources these "enviormentalists" are using trying to make me turn the water off while i brush my teeth is the real "waste of resources". someone needs to shut them up. if there ever is a serious problem in the ozone layer, it can and will be dealt with, and believe me, the amount of resources used for that is minimal compared to how much paper, gasoline, wood, and time these so called "enviormentalists" waste.

yes, we should try to minimize our waste, but not to the point where it becomes an annoyance.
 

shuamort

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(I hope that didn't seem like I was refuting your point Simon, just elaborating my point off of yours).
 

clone

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one of the laws of chemistry that i actually remember is the one saying every action has a reverse reaction. meaning you can undo chemical mistakes you make. when the ozone layer does become a problem, i gurantee it wont be long-term. its a simple matter of spraying the right chemicals into the atmosphere.

all im saying is you shouldnt go crazy about these things.
 

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clone said:
one of the laws of chemistry that i actually remember is the one saying every action has a reverse reaction. meaning you can undo chemical mistakes you make.
Perhaps you should double check your memory. It may be faulty.

clone said:
when the ozone layer does become a problem, i gurantee it wont be long-term. its a simple matter of spraying the right chemicals into the atmosphere.
Is there anything other than your simple say-so that backs up your guarantee?

clone said:
your absolutely right, the better use of resources is...something other than flying a plane and spraying some simple chemicals. yes i can see how that is very costly.
Where'd you get the idea that this what it would take? Is tehre anything more behind this idea than your humble figuring?

clone said:
if there ever is a serious problem in the ozone layer, it can and will be dealt with, and believe me, the amount of resources used for that is minimal...
Why should I believe you? You're just some anonymous person on the internet who has offerred nothing but mere assertion as backing for you statements.
How bout some facts to back up your case?

If all you have are your humble ponderings on the issue, then the debate is dead. If you have some facts to back you up, then we can go on.
 

clone

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haha, my memory is not faulty. look it up yourself before you start saying my arguments are "humble figuring".

chemistry backs up my words. do some research yourself and you would see that.
 

shuamort

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clone said:
haha, my memory is not faulty. look it up yourself before you start saying my arguments are "humble figuring".

chemistry backs up my words. do some research yourself and you would see that.
We're asking you for proof that you're claiming to be true. Your position, your proof.
 

Simon W. Moon

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clone said:
haha, my memory is not faulty. look it up yourself before you start saying my arguments are "humble figuring".
chemistry backs up my words. do some research yourself and you would see that.
If this is true, then it shouldn't be any trouble for you to provide some evidence for your assertions.

A Google of "every action has a reverse reaction"

Pretty slim pickins there.


It looks like this debate is dead. All that there is here is some anonymous person on the internet who has a foggy recollection of something he heard once that he's trying to leverage into scientific certainty.

clone,
Put up some evidence or give it up.​
 
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clone

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"Every chemical reaction is, in theory, reversible. In a forward reaction the substances defined as reactants are converted to products. In a reverse reaction products are converted into reactants."

taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_reaction

as you so love to say... "looks like this debate is dead"

good thing you guys arent retarded high school dropouts.
 

Simon W. Moon

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clone said:
"Every chemical reaction is, in theory, reversible. In a forward reaction the substances defined as reactants are converted to products. In a reverse reaction products are converted into reactants."
taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_reaction
as you so love to say... "looks like this debate is dead"
Umm, as I read what you wrote, it seems that you wrote " one of the laws of chemistry that i actually remember is the one saying every action has a reverse reaction."
However what you have cited says,
"Although all reactions are reversible to some extent, some reactions can be classified as irreversible. An irreversible reaction is one that "goes to completion." This phrase means that nearly all of the reactants are used to form products. These reactions are very difficult to reverse even under extreme conditions."
The next step is for you top demonstrate what would need be done to "repair the ozone layer." You could start by demonstrating that the destruction of ozone is a "forward reaction" that is reversible.

Whenever you get ready.
 
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clone

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the reaction happening in our atmosphere will only be complete when all of hte reactants(the ozone layer) have been turned into products(other noxious gases such as carbon monoxide). this has not happened yet. when it is about to happen, by releasing the right chemicals we can cause the reaction to reverse itself.

my teacher explained this very well, but im not a teacher. if you still dont understand what im saying, i think its best if yoiu leave this debate. im not in the mood to discuss chemistry right now.
 

shuamort

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clone said:
the reaction happening in our atmosphere will only be complete when all of hte reactants(the ozone layer) have been turned into products(other noxious gases such as carbon monoxide). this has not happened yet. when it is about to happen, by releasing the right chemicals we can cause the reaction to reverse itself.

my teacher explained this very well, but im not a teacher. if you still dont understand what im saying, i think its best if yoiu leave this debate. im not in the mood to discuss chemistry right now.
I don't think it's the understanding part that's the problem. It's the believing part. You're the one that started this debate without proof. When asked for proof you have supplied none. And now you don't want to discuss chemistry?

We can do a couple things at this point, wait for you to "be in the mood" to defend your point, or you can concede your point, or you can concede this point and lock this thread. Your choice.
 

clone

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what the hell are you talking about. chemistry is my proof, chemistry is my statement as well. i even posted an encyclopedia link as proof. i dont feel a need to argue about it, because i have already stated my point and my proof.

if you actually read my post you would know.
 

Simon W. Moon

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clone said:
im not in the mood to discuss chemistry right now.

If you don't want to discuss chemistry, why on earth would you start a thread that depends on discussing chemistry?
 

Simon W. Moon

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clone said:
what the hell are you talking about. chemistry is my proof, chemistry is my statement as well. i even posted an encyclopedia link as proof.


clone said:
i dont feel a need to argue about it...
Then why did you post it to a debate forum?


clone said:
... because i have already stated my point and my proof.
Perhaps this is some arcane or very new use of the word 'proof' that I am as of yet unfamiliar with. Have you demonstrated that the damage to the ozone layer is a "forward reaction" as per the link that you cited?
Have you stated what it would take to repair the ozone? "Spraying some unnamed chemicals from a plane" is not specific enough. Let's talk quantities, let's talk about endothermic or exothermic reactions etc. let's name the kinds of chemicals that you would like to spray from a plane.
Let's address the effects of damage to the ozone on life and life forms on earth that are not simple chemical reactions.

You've quite a row to hoe and it's not but just past breakfast for you.
 

Tashah

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clone said:
yes, we should try to minimize our waste, but not to the point where it becomes an annoyance.
You also fail to realize that a planetary atmosphere is a closed system and its constituent components are relational. For the sake of simple example, let's assume here that the ozone layer can indeed be artificially repaired. Like it or not, this would involve tampering with the system. In other words, fixing one component amounts to tampering and may just as well alter another component with unforseen consequences. In essence, the successful cure could turn out to be well worse that the original ailment. Closed systems are quite symbiotic... and altering one component alters the entire dynamic.


 
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There isn't a chemist in the world who will back up the idea that the ozone issues can be reversed easily by just spraying a few chemicals. The surface area of the earth is huge, and the area in the atmosphere that would have to be sprayed is even bigger. I suppose that if someone figures out how to spray this problem away, we could make every commercial jet airplane carry 50 less passengers per flight so they can carry a tank of whatever magical mixture that might fix the problem, and then it would probably take 100 years.
Go back to your chemistry teacher and have him/her explain it again, in the context of the ozone layer, or smog, or CO2, or any of the other pollutants.
Personally, I want to see the chemical equation that has caused the problem first, then the equation that cures it. I suspect that we don't even know all the factors involved in the causitive equation yet.
 
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