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Reuters: Ranking shows rich nations not leading way to end poverty, inequality

Lafayette

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From here: Ranking shows rich nations not leading way to end poverty, inequality

Excerpt:
NEW YORK (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - Most of the world's richest countries failed to earn top marks on their progress toward reaching the United Nations' goals to end poverty and inequality, with only Germany and the United Kingdom in the top ten, according to a list published on Thursday.

The United States ranked 25th on the index of 149 countries, scoring poorly on promoting clean energy and fighting inequality and climate change, said the ranking by the U.N. Sustainable Development Solutions Network and Bertelsmann Stiftung, a German social responsibility foundation.

U.N. member states agreed last September to 17 ambitious goals to tackle the world's most troubling problems such as inequality, poverty and climate change.

The agenda is to be implemented over the next 15 years, with a big push globally to win public support.

The index measuring nations' progress is meant to boost interest in the global goals, said Jeffrey Sachs, director of the U.N. Sustainable Development Solutions Network.

"We put this report out ... as a kind of spur," he told the Thomson Reuters Foundation. "'Remember these goals? You signed up to them. Here's where you are.'"

Scoring at the bottom of the list were the Central African Republic and Liberia, while Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland and Switzerland topped the list. Germany ranked sixth, and the United Kingdom ranked tenth, it said.

The United States ranked 25th, below Hungary and above Slovak Republic, it said.

Of course, many on this forum are going to hang the blame on Obama. But the HofR Replicants are more guilty for their refusal to endorse Obama's request for more Stimulus Spending after ARRA-spending of around $800B in 2009/10 had stopped dead an exploding Unemployment Rate at 10%.

Without stimulus-spending, getting unemployment back down to 5% would take an excruciatingly (for American families) long five-and-a-half years more, as attested by the Bureau of Labor Statistics here:
latest_numbers_LNS14000000_2006_2016_all_period_M06_data.gif
And why? Who refused all further stimulus-spending whilst controlling the HofR, favoring the opposite inanity of Austerity Spending - see here from the NYT in 2013: Economists See Deficit Emphasis as Impeding Recovery

Some people just never learn ...
________________________
 

joG

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From here: Ranking shows rich nations not leading way to end poverty, inequality

Excerpt:

Of course, many on this forum are going to hang the blame on Obama. But the HofR Replicants are more guilty for their refusal to endorse Obama's request for more Stimulus Spending after ARRA-spending of around $800B in 2009/10 had stopped dead an exploding Unemployment Rate at 10%.

Without stimulus-spending, getting unemployment back down to 5% would take an excruciatingly (for American families) long five-and-a-half years more, as attested by the Bureau of Labor Statistics here:
View attachment 67204243
And why? Who refused all further stimulus-spending whilst controlling the HofR, favoring the opposite inanity of Austerity Spending - see here from the NYT in 2013: Economists See Deficit Emphasis as Impeding Recovery

Some people just never learn ...
________________________

Again you are picking your index to demonstrate something without explaining, what the index shows. You just like the name of it. Now, to be honest, I do not feel like looking up the factors and weights used. But I really do not think you are being honest with posts the likes of this and others.
 

Moderate Right

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From here: Ranking shows rich nations not leading way to end poverty, inequality

Excerpt:

Of course, many on this forum are going to hang the blame on Obama. But the HofR Replicants are more guilty for their refusal to endorse Obama's request for more Stimulus Spending after ARRA-spending of around $800B in 2009/10 had stopped dead an exploding Unemployment Rate at 10%.

Without stimulus-spending, getting unemployment back down to 5% would take an excruciatingly (for American families) long five-and-a-half years more, as attested by the Bureau of Labor Statistics here:
View attachment 67204243
And why? Who refused all further stimulus-spending whilst controlling the HofR, favoring the opposite inanity of Austerity Spending - see here from the NYT in 2013: Economists See Deficit Emphasis as Impeding Recovery

Some people just never learn ...
________________________

What in the hell are you talking about? The unemployment rate is under 5% right now! Your own graph shows that!

How about this: Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

As far as stimulus spending goes, we already owe over 19 TRILLION dollars and are adding 500 BILLION more to it every year, and you want us to add even more to the debt? We did have stimulus!

What happened to Europe being so great in poverty/income inequality? I see France didn't make the list either. It's easier for smaller economies to have less poverty and income inequality because they have smaller economies and less people. The less people you have the less people you have in poverty. I'd be interested to know how many single parent families there are in various European countries and how many kids they have. In the US we seem to have a large number of single families in poverty with lots of kids. Maybe our real problem is the breakdown of the American family. We seem to reward this behavior instead of finding ways to strengthen the family. We also have a terrible problem of illegal immigration. I doubt that Europe has this problem to the same degree that we do. These people don't come into the country at the top of the totem pole and they aren't legally supposed to be here in the first place.
 
Last edited:

Fenton

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From here: Ranking shows rich nations not leading way to end poverty, inequality

Excerpt:

Of course, many on this forum are going to hang the blame on Obama. But the HofR Replicants are more guilty for their refusal to endorse Obama's request for more Stimulus Spending after ARRA-spending of around $800B in 2009/10 had stopped dead an exploding Unemployment Rate at 10%.

Without stimulus-spending, getting unemployment back down to 5% would take an excruciatingly (for American families) long five-and-a-half years more, as attested by the Bureau of Labor Statistics here:
View attachment 67204243
And why? Who refused all further stimulus-spending whilst controlling the HofR, favoring the opposite inanity of Austerity Spending - see here from the NYT in 2013: Economists See Deficit Emphasis as Impeding Recovery

Some people just never learn ...
________________________
[/QUOTE\]

Wait, so the basket case that is the American economy is the GOP's fault because they wouldn't let Obama play Croney Capitalist with American tax dollars anymore ?

Fiscal Stimulus doesn't work. Sure its real effective in the exponential increase of sovereign debt compared to GDP ( Japan ) but not much else.

Especially when its paired with large tax increases on the " Rich " and Corporations and businesses ( because Libs think thats how you fix disparity)

This was Bernie Sanders plan to tank what's left of the American economy

Its simply the Lefts only strategy for growing something they dont understand. A free market economy.
 

EvaPeron

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From here: Ranking shows rich nations not leading way to end poverty, inequality

Excerpt:

Of course, many on this forum are going to hang the blame on Obama. But the HofR Replicants are more guilty for their refusal to endorse Obama's request for more Stimulus Spending after ARRA-spending of around $800B in 2009/10 had stopped dead an exploding Unemployment Rate at 10%.

Without stimulus-spending, getting unemployment back down to 5% would take an excruciatingly (for American families) long five-and-a-half years more, as attested by the Bureau of Labor Statistics here:
View attachment 67204243
And why? Who refused all further stimulus-spending whilst controlling the HofR, favoring the opposite inanity of Austerity Spending - see here from the NYT in 2013: Economists See Deficit Emphasis as Impeding Recovery

Some people just never learn ...
________________________

Just my humble opinion, but what this shows is that giving more free stuff does not equate to independence and equality. People have to want to be better, do better, live better. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Thus my opinion as to why poverty and inequality will always exist. I can't imagine a way that any country could mandate that people across that country meet a certain expectation. And, that's what it takes. In order to live a better life, you have to make a conscious decision to do what it takes and you have to follow through. Simply asking a government to do more will only lead to more in equality. That to me, is why the US has failed. They've continued to dole out handouts instead of touching upon the root cause of the need and fixing that need.
 

Lafayette

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What in the hell are you talking about? The unemployment rate is under 5% right now! Your own graph shows that!

Read the entire comment. It took America five and a half years to get back to 5% unemployment! And as regards the Employment-to-population ratio, we are still significantly below the 2009 high of 63%!!!!!

Because no Stimulus Spending was applied. Do you know what Stimulus Spending is? Have you the slightest comprehension of Economic Management?

As far as stimulus spending goes, we already owe over 19 TRILLION dollars and are adding 500 BILLION more to it every year, and you want us to add even more to the debt? We did have stimulus!

So what? Who's going to show-up wanting to repossess the White House?

Read this part SLOWLY because you're comprehension of history is as limited as that of economics:
*The 2008/9 Great Recession unemployment was brought on by SubPrime Bankster Fraud (for which no one went to jail) but as a result of which a Great Many bankers made a very hefty income.
*Upon entering the White House, Obama spiked high employment at 10% by means of Stimulus Spending (the ARRA bill), which could have easily gone to Great Depression levels of 15%. Fifteen percent is 50 million Americans out of work - the population of the states of California and Illinois combined!
*But to bring it down quickly to 5% would have taken Stimulus Spending which would have increased the debt by a minuscule 5% in two years.
*So, we had millions of Americans one the dole for five more years because Replicants like you did not want to spend money (on government works) for the unemployed to start making money ... and GET OFF THE DOLE.

MY POINT?

You know what living in one of the richest countries in the world means? It means that foreign countries love to hold our T-notes! Because Uncle Sam pays a damn fine interest and on time - no problems, not ever a payment problem!

The Austerity Budgeting argument was a patent charade - the Replicants wickedly wanted high unemployment in 2012 in order to stymie Obama's reelection bid. Didn't work did it? But millions of fellow Americans paid the cost of unemployment whilst Replicants played games in the HofR ...
 

Lafayette

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Again you are picking your index to demonstrate something without explaining, what the index shows. You just like the name of it. Now, to be honest, I do not feel like looking up the factors and weights used. But I really do not think you are being honest with posts the likes of this and others.

You are helpless. Kindly put me on your "avoid list".

M... r... a....
 

joG

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You are helpless. Kindly put me on your "avoid list".

M... r... a....

I other words, you think everyone had the time to look up the composition of the UN index? Why, I doubt that you know it without reading up. And what it means when applied to a country is like it is with all indices less trivial than the name that is used for political aims.
 

Lafayette

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Wait, so the basket case that is the American economy is the GOP's fault because they wouldn't let Obama play Croney Capitalist with American tax dollars anymore ?

Blah, blah, blah - stoopid sarcasm.

This is an economics forum - get it ... ?
___________________
 

Lafayette

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Just my humble opinion, but what this shows is that giving more free stuff does not equate to independence and equality. People have to want to be better, do better, live better. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Thus my opinion as to why poverty and inequality will always exist.

That first part about "doing better" is at the heart of our human essence. We are born with the need to strive and succeed. It is key to human domination of all the other species on earth.

It is sad to see, in this forum, the meanness of people who think themselves superior because they had the profound good fortune to be born in the US - a market-economy 320 million consumers strong.

There is not a country on earth in which people do not want to do better. There are great many countries, however, that don't allow that to happen. Countries run by dictatorial powers. Countries that don't know how to select competent people to govern. Countries that do not have the right rules to fashion equitable/fair outcomes.

It's really a mixed bag - and the problem in this forum is that most people haven't the slightest inkling about how nations have chosen to run themselves beyond the three mile limit. They have swallowed hook, line and sinker the bunkum about "America is the Greatest Nation on Earth". Why?

Because anything less than "greatest" is simply not acceptable. So everything is "great". Everybody is "great".

How boring, how silly, how blind ...

I can't imagine a way that any country could mandate that people across the nation meet a certain expectation. And, that's what it takes. In order to live a better life, you have to make a conscious decision to do what it takes and you have to follow through. Simply asking a government to do more will only lead to more in equality. That to me, is why the US has failed. They've continued to dole out handouts instead of touching upon the root cause of the need and fixing that need.

Like others here, you are fixating on the "doles". You know perhaps very well that the government handouts to the poor are not really different from the government contracts to companies supplying the DoD. They are both government disbursements paid out of tax-revenues. Plenty on this forum are hung-up on the fact that the poor "do nothing" whilst all the rest of us are gainfully employed.

The poor are gainfully employed to consume, and by consuming, they help a market economy to function. Ever think of that? (Frankly, I think most people would rather work than be obliged to live off the dole. They don't get that much money.)

Do you really think that people do not make "conscious decisions to do what it takes", then try to "follow through"? What you are saying is that people need "ambition". Frankly, we are all born with innate ambition - but that is never enough. Life is so random that outcomes are more one of luck than ambition. Yes, ambition helps - but it is never solely sufficient.

The only absolute that matters is that we are all equal before the laws of the land. And, money-differences amongst and between one another is real but a purely secondary matter. When we confuse that financial hierarchy - when money truly becomes the dominating factor - is when a country has gone off the deep end.

And, since the 1980s, I think that is exactly what has happened to America.

The most prominent example is in the saying, "Black lives matter!". Of course they matter, and behind the rage of the blacks is not only police brutality, but the more subtle brutality of Income Disparity.

Not true? See here:
History of US Median Income by Racial Class.jpg

And perhaps on a less racial and more societal level, the income disparity between the sexes:
Female to Male Earnings.jpg

Differences matter in any society, and the worse the differences become, the more volatile are social relations. Unfortunately, the differences are most obvious in social class as decided by individual revenues.

My point: No, we should not all earn the same income. A market-economy requires myriad talents from which derives differences in incomes. The problem in America is that the highest incomes have become far too remote from the lowest incomes. Moreover, only 10% of households are taking home nearly half of all the income generated, with the other 90% scramble over the other half.

I kid you not - the economic research in the matter is solid. Income Disparity is not only an economic problem but a societal disease.

Which makes for a very dangerous social concoction ...
____________________________
 
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Fenton

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Blah, blah, blah - stoopid sarcasm.

This is an economics forum - get it ... ?
___________________

Then why are you posting in it ?
 

Fenton

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Read the entire comment. It took America five and a half years to get back to 5% unemployment! And as regards the Employment-to-population ratio, we are still significantly below the 2009 high of 63%!!!!!

Because no Stimulus Spending was applied. Do you know what Stimulus Spending is? Have you the slightest comprehension of Economic Management?



So what? Who's going to show-up wanting to repossess the White House?

Read this part SLOWLY because you're comprehension of history is as limited as that of economics:
*The 2008/9 Great Recession unemployment was brought on by SubPrime Bankster Fraud (for which no one went to jail) but as a result of which a Great Many bankers made a very hefty income.
*Upon entering the White House, Obama spiked high employment at 10% by means of Stimulus Spending (the ARRA bill), which could have easily gone to Great Depression levels of 15%. Fifteen percent is 50 million Americans out of work - the population of the states of California and Illinois combined!
*But to bring it down quickly to 5% would have taken Stimulus Spending which would have increased the debt by a minuscule 5% in two years.
*So, we had millions of Americans one the dole for five more years because Replicants like you did not want to spend money (on government works) for the unemployed to start making money ... and GET OFF THE DOLE.

MY POINT?

You know what living in one of the richest countries in the world means? It means that foreign countries love to hold our T-notes! Because Uncle Sam pays a damn fine interest and on time - no problems, not ever a payment problem!

The Austerity Budgeting argument was a patent charade - the Replicants wickedly wanted high unemployment in 2012 in order to stymie Obama's reelection bid. Didn't work did it? But millions of fellow Americans paid the cost of unemployment whilst Replicants played games in the HofR ...



LOL !!! " Uncle Sam pays damn fine interest " ?

Treasury Bills | Constant Maturity Index Rate Yield Bonds Notes US 10 5 1 Year Rates

This is the economics forum. You realize that, dont you?
 

ocean515

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From here: Ranking shows rich nations not leading way to end poverty, inequality

Excerpt:

Of course, many on this forum are going to hang the blame on Obama. But the HofR Replicants are more guilty for their refusal to endorse Obama's request for more Stimulus Spending after ARRA-spending of around $800B in 2009/10 had stopped dead an exploding Unemployment Rate at 10%.

Without stimulus-spending, getting unemployment back down to 5% would take an excruciatingly (for American families) long five-and-a-half years more, as attested by the Bureau of Labor Statistics here:
View attachment 67204243
And why? Who refused all further stimulus-spending whilst controlling the HofR, favoring the opposite inanity of Austerity Spending - see here from the NYT in 2013: Economists See Deficit Emphasis as Impeding Recovery

Some people just never learn ...
________________________

For what reason would the citizens of the United States feel the need to join the global economic justice scam being pushed by the UN?

Why would the citizens of the United States feel the need to participate in the attempt to effect the largest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind?

In other words, why should the citizens of the United States care one wit for how the UN ranks their global largess?
 

James972

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In other words, why should the citizens of the United States care one wit for how the UN ranks their global largess?

Especially when the USA just gifted Republican capitalism to China and they promptly used it to eliminate 40% of the entire planets poverty!! Without the USA's Republican influence about 5 billion human souls would slowly starve to death as liberalism gained ground.
 

Moderate Right

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Read the entire comment. It took America five and a half years to get back to 5% unemployment! And as regards the Employment-to-population ratio, we are still significantly below the 2009 high of 63%!!!!!

Because no Stimulus Spending was applied. Do you know what Stimulus Spending is? Have you the slightest comprehension of Economic Management?



So what? Who's going to show-up wanting to repossess the White House?

Read this part SLOWLY because you're comprehension of history is as limited as that of economics:
*The 2008/9 Great Recession unemployment was brought on by SubPrime Bankster Fraud (for which no one went to jail) but as a result of which a Great Many bankers made a very hefty income.
*Upon entering the White House, Obama spiked high employment at 10% by means of Stimulus Spending (the ARRA bill), which could have easily gone to Great Depression levels of 15%. Fifteen percent is 50 million Americans out of work - the population of the states of California and Illinois combined!
*But to bring it down quickly to 5% would have taken Stimulus Spending which would have increased the debt by a minuscule 5% in two years.
*So, we had millions of Americans one the dole for five more years because Replicants like you did not want to spend money (on government works) for the unemployed to start making money ... and GET OFF THE DOLE.

MY POINT?

You know what living in one of the richest countries in the world means? It means that foreign countries love to hold our T-notes! Because Uncle Sam pays a damn fine interest and on time - no problems, not ever a payment problem!

The Austerity Budgeting argument was a patent charade - the Replicants wickedly wanted high unemployment in 2012 in order to stymie Obama's reelection bid. Didn't work did it? But millions of fellow Americans paid the cost of unemployment whilst Replicants played games in the HofR ...

The conspiracy forum is a little farther down. I can't debate someone who wears a tin foil hat.
 

ludin

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Wait, so the basket case that is the American economy is the GOP's fault because they wouldn't let Obama play Croney Capitalist with American tax dollars anymore ?
Fiscal Stimulus doesn't work. Sure its real effective in the exponential increase of sovereign debt compared to GDP ( Japan ) but not much else.
Especially when its paired with large tax increases on the " Rich " and Corporations and businesses ( because Libs think thats how you fix disparity)
This was Bernie Sanders plan to tank what's left of the American economy
Its simply the Lefts only strategy for growing something they dont understand. A free market economy.

I would say that stimulus can help the economy as long as it is targeted and directed.
IE more money in peoples hands and in business equal better economic outcomes.

so stimulus can help if it is directed at the right area.
just mass spending to mass spend? no doesn't help at all.
 

Lafayette

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For what reason would the citizens of the United States feel the need to join the global economic justice scam being pushed by the UN? Why would the citizens of the United States feel the need to participate in the attempt to effect the largest transfer of wealth in the history of mankind? In other words, why should the citizens of the United States care one wit for how the UN ranks their global largess?

Well, one reason is that the US signed the UN Charter. But let's bother ourselves with "technicalities".

If you want to remain in the abyss of negativism just to protect what you think is a preferred "way of life", then you are obviously free to do so.

Which does not prevent me either from questioning that way-of-life, showing how patterns elsewhere are more "advanced" and offer more progressive lifestyles.

Perhaps you should try to understand what is happening beyond your three-mile offshore limit?

Just perhaps ...
_________________
 

Lafayette

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Then why are you posting in it ?

Because I have a formal education in the subject.

But particularly because my posts upset people like you ... :2razz:
______________
 

Lafayette

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I would say that stimulus can help the economy as long as it is targeted and directed.
IE more money in peoples hands and in business equal better economic outcomes.

Four years ago, it would have done so. Nowadays, there is no longer any real necessity in terms of economic objectives.

There is good-reason nonetheless for pursuing other objectives, that have somehow been forgot. For instance, the mindless way the US is polluting the upper-atmosphere (which arrives in Europe, btw).

How about a very-high-speed rail-network that competes with medium- and long-distance highways and commercial airlines? All electric, and powered by either nuclear-reactors or photo-voltaic means.

Where's the money to come from? From that bottomless money-pit called the DoD ...
___________________________________
 

ocean515

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Well, one reason is that the US signed the UN Charter. But let's bother ourselves with "technicalities".

If you want to remain in the abyss of negativism just to protect what you think is a preferred "way of life", then you are obviously free to do so.

Which does not prevent me either from questioning that way-of-life, showing how patterns elsewhere are more "advanced" and offer more progressive lifestyles.

Perhaps you should try to understand what is happening beyond your three-mile offshore limit?

Just perhaps ...
_________________

Who cares? Abyss of negativism? A laughable meme.

My comments are not an attempt to prevent you from offering any opinion or observation. You are welcome to them, of course. The Abyss of negativism is aptly represented by the fallacy of this "progressive lifestyle" you mention.

The abyss of negativism is the foundation of the "progressive lifestyle". It assumes people must turn to a globalist elite, who will control from untouchable lofty perches.

No other country on Earth has done more for the rest of the World in modern times, than the United States. No other country has expended more time, money, and effort. Famine, calamity, and atrocity have felt the touch of the largess of the citizens of the United States, so it's ludicrous to suggest "we" learn what is happening beyond our "three-mile limit".

As you promote the rule of globalist elites, perhaps you should study Ancient Rome, it's Emperors, Senators, and Consuls. The UN today, with it's attempt to require fealty to it's commands, is a modern rendition.

People are free to cower to it's demands.

Keep in mind it is the nature of mankind to gather together in groups, and establish nations of people of common allegiance. The UN originally sought to celebrate this reality while flying a common banner. Today it is a relic of it's noble mission, populated by overlords seeking wealth and power over all mankind under a banner that hides it's global social/economic justice agenda.
 

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Four years ago, it would have done so. Nowadays, there is no longer any real necessity in terms of economic objectives.

There is good-reason nonetheless for pursuing other objectives, that have somehow been forgot. For instance, the mindless way the US is polluting the upper-atmosphere (which arrives in Europe, btw).

How about a very-high-speed rail-network that competes with medium- and long-distance highways and commercial airlines? All electric, and powered by either nuclear-reactors or photo-voltaic means.

Where's the money to come from? From that bottomless money-pit called the DoD ...
___________________________________

Stimulus is only there for major economic downturns.
Otherwise it can have no affect.

Eco-nonsense is not an argument but special pleading.
Eco nuts its won't let us build nuclear power plants and a solar system needed to power such thing is
Not workable either.

Not at all that money is needed since the rest of the world doesn't seem capable of taking care of international incidents or
Want to get involved.
 

Lafayette

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Eco nuts ... won't let us build nuclear power plants and a solar system needed to power such thing is
Not workable either.

I agree - ecologists in the US have got atomic energy all wrong. Unless you want to cover two-thirds of the US in photo-voltaic electricity generators, and 320 million Americans either live under them or in the other third without them. No one in France has ever been killed by an accident at a nuclear energy plant. Three deaths occurred in the US in 1960, and 67% of electricity is from air-polluting fossil-fuel plants. (Breakdown: Coal = 33%, Natural gas = 33%, Nuclear = 20%, Hydropower = 6%, etc.)

Today, France's electricity breakdown (by source) is:
*77% - Nuclear
*12.6 - Hydraulic
*5 - Thermal generators (powered by fossil fuels)
*3.1 - Windmills
*1.1 - Photo-voltaic
*1.2 - Other sources

I've been in France since it started its nuclear-energy program. And it works just fine, and the nuclear-waste is all stored in stone-mines at over a thousand feet below ground.

"It" can be done, believe me.
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Lafayette

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It assumes people must turn to a globalist elite, who will control from untouchable lofty perches..

What pathetic silliness. You're hallucinating.

There are not global elites in governance. (Well, maybe one. Angela Merkel.)

There is only the expressed will of the people, that is, when it is expressed at the ballot-box. Which is rare in the US, given that we have one of the lowest participation rates in the world.

Don't believe it. See here, scroll down to page 78 - Figure 11: "League table by country vote-to-registration ratio, parliamentary elections, 1945-2001".

Of 169 countries, Australia is first and the US in 120th.

How can we think that politics in the US is democratic if the people have not all that much inclination to manifest their preferences by voting?

Move their fingers for bitching-in-a-blog, Yes! Move their backsides to go vote, Uh-uh ...
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