• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Retirement age

Rainman05

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
10,032
Reaction score
4,964
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Hello.

So here is a link to the retirement ages for men and women in European countries, not just EU countries. But lets talk about EU countries.

Norway, Iceland and Greece (surprisingly) have the highest retirement ages for men and women at 67. followed by Italy at 66. But the average life expectancy for all these 3 countries but the life expectancy is usually around 80.

Under me there will be links to 2 sites, one wiki for retirement ages and one ONG worldwide healthcare watch with data from numerous nations. My question is, what do you think the algorithm between retirement age and life expectancy should be? and what factors should come in? Lets take norway as one example. We can see that in Norway, people are expected to live without disabilities due to old age until 72. Yet they retire at 67 and the life expectancy is 81.

I would think the best algorithm should be this:

(avg life expectancy+ (avg no disability age-10%avg no disability age))/2 = retirement age.

Given the example of norway.

You have: 81+(72-10/100*72)= 72.5
Retirement age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Country ageing data | Global AgeWatch

I put this in Europe subforum because initially I was considering talking about the UK, since it has massive debt issues and some time ago it has considered raising the retirement age because of the huge social security burden. But all are free to pitch in.

ofc, there should exemptions for people who work in perilous enviroments like mining and such. This retirement age alogorithm is mostly an idea of how the majority of the population should retire. People are living longer in the civilized world and have better healthcare standards. if we couple this with physical fitness, our life expectancy, free of disabilities and such, is pretty high.
 
Last edited:

Torrent

Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2013
Messages
61
Reaction score
33
Location
Just outside of the Middle of Nowhere
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Isn't that just an avg. number?

I thought people retired when they thought they had enough money that would last the rest of there lives. Which would be different on a person by person basis, as some people can make due with less and other 'require' more.
 

PeteEU

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
35,226
Reaction score
12,103
Location
Denmark
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Hello.

So here is a link to the retirement ages for men and women in European countries, not just EU countries. But lets talk about EU countries.

Norway, Iceland and Greece (surprisingly) have the highest retirement ages for men and women at 67. followed by Italy at 66. But the average life expectancy for all these 3 countries but the life expectancy is usually around 80.

Under me there will be links to 2 sites, one wiki for retirement ages and one ONG worldwide healthcare watch with data from numerous nations. My question is, what do you think the algorithm between retirement age and life expectancy should be? and what factors should come in? Lets take norway as one example. We can see that in Norway, people are expected to live without disabilities due to old age until 72. Yet they retire at 67 and the life expectancy is 81.

I would think the best algorithm should be this:

(avg life expectancy+ (avg no disability age-10%avg no disability age))/2 = retirement age.

Given the example of norway.

You have: 81+(72-10/100*72)= 72.5
Retirement age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Country ageing data | Global AgeWatch

I put this in Europe subforum because initially I was considering talking about the UK, since it has massive debt issues and some time ago it has considered raising the retirement age because of the huge social security burden. But all are free to pitch in.

ofc, there should exemptions for people who work in perilous enviroments like mining and such. This retirement age alogorithm is mostly an idea of how the majority of the population should retire. People are living longer in the civilized world and have better healthcare standards. if we couple this with physical fitness, our life expectancy, free of disabilities and such, is pretty high.
First off, the Greek retirement age is not surprising. It was 65 before the crisis.

There is one major problem... you and others are thinking about the text book economic implications solely based on retirement funds, but miss the big picture.

Once you hit age 50, it gets harder and harder to get a job if you loose it.. and the older you get the harder it gets. So chances are that anyone over age 60 will never find a job, and have to live off unemployment benefits.. which often are higher than retirement benefits.

So raising the retirement age from 67 to 72 will actually cost more money, and wont do any good because no one will hire a 70 year old.

And also most people tend to forget, that retirement age is not uniform. It depends on what job. Some jobs are physically damaging and prevents them from working after a certain age, so raising the retirement age for these people is impossible... unless you start juicing them up :)
 

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
28,631
Reaction score
20,383
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Isn't that just an avg. number?

I thought people retired when they thought they had enough money that would last the rest of there lives. Which would be different on a person by person basis, as some people can make due with less and other 'require' more.
A country's retirement age is really just the age at which its citizens are entitled to receive payments from the government under various old age and retirement income plans. In Canada, as an example, that age was 65 with the possibility of early acceptance, at a reduced rate, at 60. That is now being gradually increased to 67 over the next few years. People, however, based on their own financial situations and workplace retirement plans do retire earlier. For example, I retired at 55 on an indexed pension that supplements me until I'm 65 and am eligible for government pensions. I'm a person with simple needs so it works for me - for others, as you say, they want to retire with the same income and lifestyle as if they were working - I was tired of that.

Government retirement programs require a steady, increasing stream of young people entering the workforce and paying into the systems in order to finance the retirements of generations before them - after the baby boom and with reduced birth rates since, there's distinct pressure on such plans and increases in the age of eligibility are a natural outcome of that in addition to the increasing life expectancy.
 

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,433
Reaction score
16,986
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Isn't that just an avg. number?

I thought people retired when they thought they had enough money that would last the rest of there lives. Which would be different on a person by person basis, as some people can make due with less and other 'require' more.
That's how it should be.

Retirement shouldn't be a REQUIREMENT.
 

Helix

Administrator
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
69,791
Reaction score
51,918
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
i'm pretty good with a retirement age of 65 for everyone. there aren't enough jobs to go around, and there is no point in having everyone work until they die.
 

Canell

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
3,851
Reaction score
1,170
Location
EUSSR
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
When Bismark invented pensions I doubt if he ever had in mind the ridiculous monster that we have now. :roll:
 

sawyerloggingon

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
14,700
Reaction score
5,703
Location
Where they have FOX on in bars and restaurants
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Retirement means different things to different people. To most it means when you get that government check every month I guess but if you work hard and play your cards right and throw in a little luck you can retire far earlier than that. It's always sad when you see someone work until they are old, retire and quickly die, what a waste.
 

GottaGo

Rock and a hard place
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Messages
5,635
Reaction score
4,910
Location
Miles to go before I sleep
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Many people continue to work after their 'retirement' not only for a few extra bucks in their pocket, but to keep connected with society and enjoy the routine of being somewhere that they count for something.

I'd like to think that someday, I'll be able to make that choice.
 

Grant

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
31,645
Reaction score
7,598
Location
Canada, Costa Rica
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Many people continue to work after their 'retirement' not only for a few extra bucks in their pocket, but to keep connected with society and enjoy the routine of being somewhere that they count for something.

I'd like to think that someday, I'll be able to make that choice.
Many retirees also do volunteer work for the same reasons you've outlined. Volunteers do some great work that isn't always recognized.
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavides TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
73,927
Reaction score
31,111
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Retirement should certainly be a personal thing. I know people that retire in their 50's and manage to potter around the home and property, go on vacations, etc...but I could not ever see myself doing that. I may shift gears but I plan on working til I die. I think it gives people a purpose and keeps them healthy. When I hit 65 I plan on starting my final career...opening a restoration garage. I will work because I want to, not because I have to.

If the topic is retirement as in SS compensation or receiving back from the government what you have put into it, thats another topic as well. For those of means, they should be able to start taking out payments but at a reduced percentage anytime after 60 they want. Others that may not have planned as well for their future may ant to ride out their employment as long as they can to receive later payments but at a higher percentage.

We have changed with our life expectancy. Someone that takes care of themselves should expect to be able to live actively well into their 90s. Those can ALL be productive years. You may not want to be 80 and out kicking forms or pouring concrete, but you will be healthier and happier if you have a reason to get up every morning.
 

Rainman05

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
10,032
Reaction score
4,964
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Retirement should certainly be a personal thing. I know people that retire in their 50's and manage to potter around the home and property, go on vacations, etc...but I could not ever see myself doing that. I may shift gears but I plan on working til I die. I think it gives people a purpose and keeps them healthy. When I hit 65 I plan on starting my final career...opening a restoration garage. I will work because I want to, not because I have to.

If the topic is retirement as in SS compensation or receiving back from the government what you have put into it, thats another topic as well. For those of means, they should be able to start taking out payments but at a reduced percentage anytime after 60 they want. Others that may not have planned as well for their future may ant to ride out their employment as long as they can to receive later payments but at a higher percentage.

We have changed with our life expectancy. Someone that takes care of themselves should expect to be able to live actively well into their 90s. Those can ALL be productive years. You may not want to be 80 and out kicking forms or pouring concrete, but you will be healthier and happier if you have a reason to get up every morning.
I personally plan not to be dependent on state pensions for my retirement.
 

GottaGo

Rock and a hard place
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Messages
5,635
Reaction score
4,910
Location
Miles to go before I sleep
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
Many retirees also do volunteer work for the same reasons you've outlined. Volunteers do some great work that isn't always recognized.
They make terrific volunteers. Life experience, knowledge, time and usually patience. :thumbs:
 

ttwtt78640

Sometimes wrong
DP Veteran
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
66,615
Reaction score
37,821
Location
Uhland, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
First off, the Greek retirement age is not surprising. It was 65 before the crisis.

There is one major problem... you and others are thinking about the text book economic implications solely based on retirement funds, but miss the big picture.

Once you hit age 50, it gets harder and harder to get a job if you loose it.. and the older you get the harder it gets. So chances are that anyone over age 60 will never find a job, and have to live off unemployment benefits.. which often are higher than retirement benefits.

So raising the retirement age from 67 to 72 will actually cost more money, and wont do any good because no one will hire a 70 year old.

And also most people tend to forget, that retirement age is not uniform. It depends on what job. Some jobs are physically damaging and prevents them from working after a certain age, so raising the retirement age for these people is impossible... unless you start juicing them up :)
Good points. Another thing being largely missed in the U.S. is that as you raise the "full benefit" age for SS from 65 to 69 (some are discussing raising it to 72), you also get more folks that qualify for disability prior to reaching that "full benefit" age, thus they retire "earlier" (than planned) and draw significantly higher lifetime SS retirement benefit amounts.
 
Top Bottom