Retired veteran says U.S. should run, not walk out of Afghanistan

[JacksinPA]

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/4...ays-us-should-run-not-walk-out-of-afghanistan

Ret. Col. Douglas Macgregor warned on Tuesday that the U.S. troops should quickly pull out of Afghanistan, saying the involvement in the country had become a "money pit" for the U.S. government.

The comments come after The New York Times reported that U.S. and Taliban officials have agreed to an initial framework for a peace deal that could lead to the withdrawal of American forces in Afghanistan.
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Alexander the Great, the Brits, the Russians, and now the U.S. - all destined to lose big in the morass of Afghanistan because they refuse to learn from history.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

I served with the 173rd Airborne from '07-'08 in Afghanistan, and I wholeheartedly support this message.

 

[Nap]

I served with the 173rd Airborne from '07-'08 in Afghanistan, and I wholeheartedly support this message.

Thank you for your service, and I 100% agree as well.

 

[Fletch]

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/4...ays-us-should-run-not-walk-out-of-afghanistan

Ret. Col. Douglas Macgregor warned on Tuesday that the U.S. troops should quickly pull out of Afghanistan, saying the involvement in the country had become a "money pit" for the U.S. government.

The comments come after The New York Times reported that U.S. and Taliban officials have agreed to an initial framework for a peace deal that could lead to the withdrawal of American forces in Afghanistan.
=============================================
Alexander the Great, the Brits, the Russians, and now the U.S. - all destined to lose big in the morass of Afghanistan because they refuse to learn from history.

I dont think this is a 'loss' for us. I think that we have achieved everything that we possibly could. But I agree, we should be leaving

 

[Sampson Simpson]

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/4...ays-us-should-run-not-walk-out-of-afghanistan

Ret. Col. Douglas Macgregor warned on Tuesday that the U.S. troops should quickly pull out of Afghanistan, saying the involvement in the country had become a "money pit" for the U.S. government.

The comments come after The New York Times reported that U.S. and Taliban officials have agreed to an initial framework for a peace deal that could lead to the withdrawal of American forces in Afghanistan.
=============================================
Alexander the Great, the Brits, the Russians, and now the U.S. - all destined to lose big in the morass of Afghanistan because they refuse to learn from history.

Such a disgrace, imagine what we could have done to improve this country and its citizens, with the trillions we spent killing and destroying and pretty much all for nothing. Now the country is bankrupted by this dumb war, with egg on our face. Thousands of damaged veterans, and for what? Will anybody ever learn you can't install democracy by force from the outside, that must come from the people, not outside forces.

 

[Jack Hays]

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/4...ays-us-should-run-not-walk-out-of-afghanistan

Ret. Col. Douglas Macgregor warned on Tuesday that the U.S. troops should quickly pull out of Afghanistan, saying the involvement in the country had become a "money pit" for the U.S. government.

The comments come after The New York Times reported that U.S. and Taliban officials have agreed to an initial framework for a peace deal that could lead to the withdrawal of American forces in Afghanistan.
=============================================
Alexander the Great, the Brits, the Russians, and now the U.S. - all destined to lose big in the morass of Afghanistan because they refuse to learn from history.

This is an example of why the colonel never made general. The question is too big for him.


[h=3]Why winning and losing are irrelevant in Syria and Afghanistan[/h]
Why the United States needs to get over its big war mind-set.

• Max Boot

 

[Jack Hays]

Senate rebukes administration’s rationale for pulling U.S. forces from Afghanistan and Syria




Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s willingness to spearhead the measure shows how deeply the president’s announcements broke faith within the Republican Party. But it divided Senate Democrats, with many arguing that rebuking President Trump was not worth the cost of greenlighting endless war.

• By Karoun Demirjian
• 30 minutes ago

 

[Rogue Valley]

I don't think there is any good answer re: Afghanistan. We've been there for 16 years and today we're little better off than we were 16 years ago.

Double-dealing Pakistan has been working hand-in-hand with the Taliban in driving the US out for their "strategic depth" against India.

Why we give money to Pakistan I'll never know. That's where Trump should end the "ally" bull crap.

I just know as soon as the US leaves Afghanistan, ISIS will have found a preferred sanctuary over Syria.

 

[Jack Hays]

I don't think there is any good answer re: Afghanistan. We've been there for 16 years and today we're little better off than we were 16 years ago.

Double-dealing Pakistan has been working hand-in-hand with the Taliban in driving the US out for their "strategic depth" against India.

Why we give money to Pakistan I'll never know. That's where Trump should end the "ally" bull crap.

I just know as soon as the US leaves Afghanistan, ISIS will have found a preferred sanctuary over Syria.

That's why we should never leave.

 

[Evilroddy]

That's why we should never leave.

Jack Hays:

Never is a long time and a forever-war (one of many) will eventually bankrupt America. All empires fall and usually fall hard. Why not break the cycle and proactively turn over stewardship of the global status quo to a wider coalition of military powers?

If not then adopt a different strategy which was born out of the region three-thousand years ago. Make it very clear to the Afghan authorities that if your intelligence services detect any terrorist organisations operating out of Afghanistan and if the USA believes that the Afghan authorities are not doing their utmost to suppress and destroy said terrorist, then an Assyrian-style Razia (Army level raid) will occur where the US will swoop in, destroy the infrastructure and wealth of the richest Afghans or some large part of Afghanistan and then leave until the next large scale raid is required. Don't target the terrorists, target the Afghan elites and their wealth in order to force them to earnestly fight the terrorists. Be the great Ashurbanipal of the modern age and avoid a costly occupation and forever-war.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[Jack Hays]

Jack Hays:

Never is a long time and a forever-war (one of many) will eventually bankrupt America. All empires fall and usually fall hard. Why not break the cycle and proactively turn over stewardship of the global status quo to a wider coalition of military powers?

If not then adopt a different strategy which was born out of the region three-thousand years ago. Make it very clear to the Afghan authorities that if your intelligence services detect any terrorist organisations operating out of Afghanistan and if the USA believes that the Afghan authorities are not doing their utmost to suppress and destroy said terrorist, then an Assyrian-style Razia (Army level raid) will occur where the US will swoop in, destroy the infrastructure and wealth of the richest Afghans or some large part of Afghanistan and then leave until the next large scale raid is required. Don't target the terrorists, target the Afghan elites and their wealth in order to force them to earnestly fight the terrorists. Be the great Ashurbanipal of the modern age and avoid a costly occupation and forever-war.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Quoted from my link in #6:

These kinds of deployments are invariably lengthy and frustrating. Think of our Indian Wars, which lasted roughly 300 years (circa 1600-1890), or the British deployment on the North West Frontier (today’s Pakistan-Afghanistan border), which lasted 100 years (1840s-1940s). U.S. troops are not undertaking a conventional combat assignment. They are policing the frontiers of the Pax Americana. Just as the police aren’t trying to eliminate crime, so troops are not trying to eliminate terrorism but, instead, to keep it below a critical threshold that threatens the United States and our allies. This isn’t as satisfactory as pursuing unconditional surrender, but, as we may discover before long, it beats the alternative.

 

[Evilroddy]

Quoted from my link in #6:

These kinds of deployments are invariably lengthy and frustrating. Think of our Indian Wars, which lasted roughly 300 years (circa 1600-1890), or the British deployment on the North West Frontier (today’s Pakistan-Afghanistan border), which lasted 100 years (1840s-1940s). U.S. troops are not undertaking a conventional combat assignment. They are policing the frontiers of the Pax Americana. Just as the police aren’t trying to eliminate crime, so troops are not trying to eliminate terrorism but, instead, to keep it below a critical threshold that threatens the United States and our allies. This isn’t as satisfactory as pursuing unconditional surrender, but, as we may discover before long, it beats the alternative.

Jack Hays:

Yes, I read your full post above before I posted as well as the Max Boot (Макс Бут) article you linked to. I think it is an unsustainable strategy which you and Mr. Boot envision and it will bankrupt the USA if too many forever-wars are fought. It's great for arms and munition producers, it's a boon to the mercenary/PMSC firms and logistical support businesses, it's good for the transportation industries and it's a driver of the surveillance/security state which is enclosing Americans lives and smothering their right to privacy but it's hell on US taxpayers and on the deficit/national debt.

Also there is the opportunity costs of spending so much money on these far-flung military forever-wars. Think of what could have been done with the money spent on 17 years of indecisive war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Infrastructure could have been rebuilt and maintained, schools could have been properly funded, some national debt paid off to relieve America of burdensome interest payments, alternative energy systems could have been developed and built to reduce or eliminate dependence on fossil fuels, hospitals, clinics and robust preventative healthcare programmes could have been built/funded. But instead it was wasted killing Afghan farmers and herdsmen whose only crime was to reject American secularism and consumerism while clinging to admittedly repressive tribal and Islamic ways and to have taken up arms to expel the foreign invaders from their lands. Forever-war is not the answer.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[charliebrown]

I am wondering why the retired generals for the past forty years have not said we should run not walk out of Germany, Japan, South Korea?

I don't get how we can review history and understand what happens to a war torn country in the past and apply that same outcome to the present.

There absolutely is good and evil in this world. If we are inherently the evil force in this world, then I absolutely agree we should get out of all countries no matter what the size, shape or location. If we are inherently good, which I believe to be the case based on the prosperity of countries like South Korea, Japan and Germany after a major war, then why shouldn't we be nurturing countries into the modern democratic world. Personally, I always thought we have been underrepresented in Iraq and over represented in leading world country powers like Germany, Japan and South Korea.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

But instead it was wasted killing Afghan farmers and herdsmen whose only crime was to reject American secularism and consumerism while clinging to admittedly repressive tribal and Islamic ways and to have taken up arms to expel the foreign invaders from their lands. Forever-war is not the answer.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Managed conflicts are very profitable, winning or losing is a political perception which can be spun either way, sometimes rapidly in succession but in a managed conflict, the political perceptions don't matter. What matters is, continuing the managed conflict forever, so as to provide a permanent revenue stream.

The End.

 

[Jack Hays]

Jack Hays:

Yes, I read your full post above before I posted as well as the Max Boot (Макс Бут) article you linked to. I think it is an unsustainable strategy which you and Mr. Boot envision and it will bankrupt the USA if too many forever-wars are fought. It's great for arms and munition producers, it's a boon to the mercenary/PMSC firms and logistical support businesses, it's good for the transportation industries and it's a driver of the surveillance/security state which is enclosing Americans lives and smothering their right to privacy but it's hell on US taxpayers and on the deficit/national debt.

Also there is the opportunity costs of spending so much money on these far-flung military forever-wars. Think of what could have been done with the money spent on 17 years of indecisive war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Infrastructure could have been rebuilt and maintained, schools could have been properly funded, some national debt paid off to relieve America of burdensome interest payments, alternative energy systems could have been developed and built to reduce or eliminate dependence on fossil fuels, hospitals, clinics and robust preventative healthcare programmes could have been built/funded. But instead it was wasted killing Afghan farmers and herdsmen whose only crime was to reject American secularism and consumerism while clinging to admittedly repressive tribal and Islamic ways and to have taken up arms to expel the foreign invaders from their lands. Forever-war is not the answer.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Actually, the kind of extended mission Boot describes is not that expensive, and is certainly cheaper than dealing with the consequences of a terrorist revival in ungoverned territory.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Once you leave the hot-spots of Syria, Afghanistan, and Iraq, there is no guarantee you'll get back in if necessary (i.e. Russian S-400 systems in Syria, no viable SOFA, etc).

And even if you do manage to get back in, starting over again is more expensive than continuity. Also, a "cut and run" policy no longer yields friendly neighborhood allies.

There are numerous excellent reasons why General Mattis, with extensive military experience in the ME and as DoD Secretary, opposed Trumps sudden withdrawals from Syria and Afghanistan.