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Restroom use: how would you do it?

maquiscat

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I wanted to focus in on this more than what some of the other threads are doing. I am placing this in Law and Order since we are going to be discussing what the law should be as the main focus, although no doubt there will be much about sexuality in it as well. So Mods, move if you see fit.

Here is your hypothetical: You are tasked with writing a law on restroom use (private homes excluded), and it will be accepted as law. For the purposes of this discussion, you don't have to do this in legalese, but you do need to be specific, especially on issues such as exceptions and enforcement.
 

Mycroft

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I wanted to focus in on this more than what some of the other threads are doing. I am placing this in Law and Order since we are going to be discussing what the law should be as the main focus, although no doubt there will be much about sexuality in it as well. So Mods, move if you see fit.

Here is your hypothetical: You are tasked with writing a law on restroom use (private homes excluded), and it will be accepted as law. For the purposes of this discussion, you don't have to do this in legalese, but you do need to be specific, especially on issues such as exceptions and enforcement.
Laws on "restroom use"???

Do you propose different laws for pointers and setters?

Can I leave the seat up?

(Maybe I really don't understand what you are "aiming" for?)
 

maquiscat

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Laws on "restroom use"???

Do you propose different laws for pointers and setters?

Can I leave the seat up?

(Maybe I really don't understand what you are "aiming" for?)
I'm not proposing anything. I want to know what others would propose, including on how they would define things and enforce them. It could be as simple as they would require only unisex restrooms with stalls only that had no gaps to peep through, to draconian and convoluted definitions that requires a place to have 10 different specific restrooms.

Basically, in some of the threads, specifically on transgenders, there is a lot of generality and suggestive wording, but I want to see specifics.
 

calamity

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I wanted to focus in on this more than what some of the other threads are doing. I am placing this in Law and Order since we are going to be discussing what the law should be as the main focus, although no doubt there will be much about sexuality in it as well. So Mods, move if you see fit.

Here is your hypothetical: You are tasked with writing a law on restroom use (private homes excluded), and it will be accepted as law. For the purposes of this discussion, you don't have to do this in legalese, but you do need to be specific, especially on issues such as exceptions and enforcement.
Three minute rule. In, do your business, get out. No lingering. Rule one.
 

Airyaman

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Make all "private". I'm a dude and I don't want to look at another dude's junk, because I don't want him looking at mine.

Give a little bit.
 

Patriotic Voter

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Put the seat down. Just do it.

You just reminded me of a time when I sat on the bowl and got my butt wet in the employees-only restroom.

To fix this issue, the law should require all public restrooms for both men and women to have at least one urinal.
 

Mycroft

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Make all restrooms like this one.

 

SNOWFLAKE

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I think I get where the author of this thread is coming from, so here is my simple answer:
Where I live in Canada, many public places have three or four bathroom designations, male, female, family and handicapped. Some combine family and handicapped since only ONE person at a time can use it.
So women use the women's, men the men's, adults with small kids not wanting the kid exposed to an adult use the family/handicap one, AND anyone who has changed sex and doesn't want to be exposed to sexual curiosity or be subjected to discriminatory remarks can do the same.
Those places that don't have more options will admittedly be a problem, but both men's and women's come with stalls, so if you want privacy, use a stall instead of a urinal.

SO if I was tasked with writing a law, it would be simple, every public place, even a business that provides washrooms, need to have at least three options, men, women, and an all use one where only one person at a time can use the facility, be it transgender, disabled, elderly, or a parent with a child.
 

holbritter

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3 options. Men, Women and whatever else you want to label it.
 

tacomancer

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I wanted to focus in on this more than what some of the other threads are doing. I am placing this in Law and Order since we are going to be discussing what the law should be as the main focus, although no doubt there will be much about sexuality in it as well. So Mods, move if you see fit.

Here is your hypothetical: You are tasked with writing a law on restroom use (private homes excluded), and it will be accepted as law. For the purposes of this discussion, you don't have to do this in legalese, but you do need to be specific, especially on issues such as exceptions and enforcement.
easy, 3 bathrooms

1 man
1 woman
1 private

all bathrooms have stalls with privacy doors (that don't break) and get rid of urinals

probably the best we can do in the current social climate and nobody will be completely happy but everyone will be able to relieve themselves.

either that or all bathrooms are private ones, but that would have additional costs as well.
 

maquiscat

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I think I get where the author of this thread is coming from, so here is my simple answer:
Where I live in Canada, many public places have three or four bathroom designations, male, female, family and handicapped. Some combine family and handicapped since only ONE person at a time can use it.
So women use the women's, men the men's, adults with small kids not wanting the kid exposed to an adult use the family/handicap one, AND anyone who has changed sex and doesn't want to be exposed to sexual curiosity or be subjected to discriminatory remarks can do the same.
Those places that don't have more options will admittedly be a problem, but both men's and women's come with stalls, so if you want privacy, use a stall instead of a urinal.

SO if I was tasked with writing a law, it would be simple, every public place, even a business that provides washrooms, need to have at least three options, men, women, and an all use one where only one person at a time can use the facility, be it transgender, disabled, elderly, or a parent with a child.
How is your law classifying men and women? Or are you going to go with male and female? Are there any exceptions? What enforcement are you allowing under your law? I'm looking for something a little more in depth here. This is like the bare bones description, not what they law would hold.

And people, when you answer, please don't assume common sense, and that someone is supposed to "know something". The law doesn't do that which is why it often has legal definitions that may or may not match common usage.
 

Aunt Antifa

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I wanted to focus in on this more than what some of the other threads are doing. I am placing this in Law and Order since we are going to be discussing what the law should be as the main focus, although no doubt there will be much about sexuality in it as well. So Mods, move if you see fit.

Here is your hypothetical: You are tasked with writing a law on restroom use (private homes excluded), and it will be accepted as law. For the purposes of this discussion, you don't have to do this in legalese, but you do need to be specific, especially on issues such as exceptions and enforcement.

This is super silly. There is no need to re-write or write “restroom laws”. We have laws on the books against committing violence and harassment, unless you’re proposing federal protections for trans folks as a protected class. In which case, again, they would be protected by existing laws for these scenarios.

A few rooms labeled “restroom” with accomodating plumbing for folks who want privacy and folks who don’t mind standing.
 

SNOWFLAKE

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How is your law classifying men and women? Or are you going to go with male and female? Are there any exceptions? What enforcement are you allowing under your law? I'm looking for something a little more in depth here. This is like the bare bones description, not what they law would hold.

And people, when you answer, please don't assume common sense, and that someone is supposed to "know something". The law doesn't do that which is why it often has legal definitions that may or may not match common usage.
How is your law classifying men and women?
yup, as I suspected, that is where you really want to go with your "supposed" question
I answered your question, now you have changed the topic to "how do we classify men and women?" That was not part of your original question, but I was able to read what your real goal here was.
Good luck with it.
 

SNOWFLAKE

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This is super silly. There is no need to re-write or write “restroom laws”. We have laws on the books against committing violence and harassment, unless you’re proposing federal protections for trans folks as a protected class. In which case, again, they would be protected by existing laws for these scenarios.

A few rooms labeled “restroom” with accomodating plumbing for folks who want privacy and folks who don’t mind standing.
He posed a supposedly innocuous question carefully disguised as a way to draw us into a debate whether transgenders should be allowed to use public washrooms.
Some of us have been around the block long enough to recognize baiting, so I answered his question as asked, and sure enough he came back with another question "how does your law classify men and women?"
I have never had an issue, nor anyone I know, about who uses what washroom, for crying out loud, I have seen dads take their tiny girls into men's bathrooms and no one blinked, that is what stalls are for, privacy.
The question posed is a red herring and meant to draw us into an entirely different debate.
 

maquiscat

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This is super silly. There is no need to re-write or write “restroom laws”. We have laws on the books against committing violence and harassment, unless you’re proposing federal protections for trans folks as a protected class. In which case, again, they would be protected by existing laws for these scenarios.

A few rooms labeled “restroom” with accomodating plumbing for folks who want privacy and folks who don’t mind standing.
Are you unfamiliar with the concept of a thought experiment?
 

SNOWFLAKE

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easy, 3 bathrooms

1 man
1 woman
1 private

all bathrooms have stalls with privacy doors (that don't break) and get rid of urinals

probably the best we can do in the current social climate and nobody will be completely happy but everyone will be able to relieve themselves.

either that or all bathrooms are private ones, but that would have additional costs as well.
read his response to my answer, he changed the topic to "how do your laws classify men and women?"
his intention all along was to draw us into a debate about whether transgenders should be allowed access to public washrooms.
 

tacomancer

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read his response to my answer, he changed the topic to "how do your laws classify men and women?"
his intention all along was to draw us into a debate about whether transgenders should be allowed access to public washrooms.
if that debate gets too murky, just make them all private bathrooms then.
 

SNOWFLAKE

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if that debate gets too murky, just make them all private bathrooms then.
I mean how many transgenders are there out there to worry about? (not that I worry about them, I worry more about straight predators)
make one men, one women, one private
 

maquiscat

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How is your law classifying men and women?
yup, as I suspected, that is where you really want to go with your "supposed" question
I answered your question, now you have changed the topic to "how do we classify men and women?" That was not part of your original question, but I was able to read what your real goal here was.
Good luck with it.
You were the first to mention men and women, so I went with that. But given the topic, what else could it possibly be? I didn't hide anything. Maybe I committed the same error I warned against in my last post about common sense, assuming that it was obvious that this was a spin off from the transgender debates. But I wanted to focus on this particular aspect and see what people wanted. While I expect that mostly those who opposed transgender use will put up how they plan to restrict the use and such, assuming that they are brave enough to post such details, maybe we will get some from the other side as well. Maybe adding laws requiring restrooms to have stalls with no gaps, or something like that. I'm not worried about the trans are real or not real argument in this case. I'm asking people "if you believe X about restroom use, how would you codify it into law and enforce it"?

He posed a supposedly innocuous question carefully disguised as a way to draw us into a debate whether transgenders should be allowed to use public washrooms.

Well of course they can use public restrooms. The issue is which ones they get to use. People have shown that they have different ideas on that. What I am asking here, is how would one envision their ideal in law, in detail. It's not limited to those who oppose a trans man from using the men's restroom. As noted, it could be in the form of building code laws.

I have never had an issue, nor anyone I know, about who uses what washroom, for crying out loud, I have seen dads take their tiny girls into men's bathrooms and no one blinked, that is what stalls are for, privacy.

But obviously many here have and do have issues.

The question posed is a red herring and meant to draw us into an entirely different debate.

Not really. That is your imposition upon my intent. I'm not here to debate on whether or not a person really is this or that. I am taking an aspect from that overall debate and asking people how they would handle it in law.
 
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SNOWFLAKE

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You were the first to mention men and women, so I went with that. But given the topic, what else could it possibly be? I didn't hide anything. Maybe I committed the same error I warned against in my last post about common sense, assuming that it was obvious that this was a spin off from the transgender debates. But I wanted to focus on this particular aspect and see what people wanted. While I expect that mostly those who opposed transgender use will put up how they plan to restrict the use and such, assuming that they are brave enough to post such details, maybe we will get some from the other side as well. Maybe adding laws requiring restrooms to have stalls with no gaps, or something like that. I'm not worried about the trans are real or not real argument in this case. I'm asking people "if you believe X about restroom use, how would you codify it into law and enforce it"?
I would worry more about having laws to prevent sexual predators using public washrooms, and you can't, because you don't know who is one and who isn't, so to solve YOUR problem everyone on this thread has given you an answer - for those who want privacy add a third option, a private bathroom. BUT YOU DID change the topic to how we classify men and women, and that is a non sequitur as it has nothing to do with your original question.
 

Aunt Antifa

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I would worry more about having laws to prevent sexual predators using public washrooms, and you can't, because you don't know who is one and who isn't, so to solve YOUR problem everyone on this thread has given you an answer - for those who want privacy add a third option, a private bathroom. BUT YOU DID change the topic to how we classify men and women, and that is a non sequitur as it has nothing to do with your original question.

Si.
 
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