• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Restaurant tiff: Was I wrong?

Goshin

The Hammer of Chaos
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
45,504
Reaction score
50,052
Location
Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
My son has been after to me to take him to his favorite Chinese place for a couple of weeks, so last nite I took him. They have a buffet with some good black-pepper-chicken and shrimp, decent sushi, and a variety of other good stuff.

So anyway, we went and ate. This place is apparently run by a family and most of the servers are young-adult children or nieces and nephews of the owners. Service can be a bit iffy sometimes, but hey it is a buffet; all they need to do is keep the sweet tea topped off once in a while.

The waitress brought the bill-tray by before we were finished eating, which is acceptible I suppose. She hadn't been especially prompt with the tea refills, but I was still planning to leave her the usual tip. The bill for the two of us comes to 22.65, and I usually put $25 on the tray and tell them to keep the change.

Now this is a buffet... I figure $2.35 is a decent tip in a place like that for two people, where all the waitress has to do is refill your tea once in a while. It's over ten percent anyway. If it was a fancy restaurant where the wait staff does EVERYTHING for you, I'd leave a bigger tip because they DO more.

We don't usually get in a big hurry, when we go there we like to enjoy it and I'm prone to linger over my last couple of bites and finish off my tea. As I was doing this, the waitress comes back, *picks up the bill-tray from our table and sets it directly in front of me*, and says "You pay now?" kind of pointedly.

I found this to be very rude, and it annoyed me greatly. It seemed like it was either "pay up and get out so I can get more people in here" (it wasn't like they were standing in line outside!) or "I'm worried you might try to skip out without paying" (we've been there several times before, you'd think...)

Either motive offended me. Hey, if I'm paying out 22.65 for dinner for two, don't freaking rush me! Nor does implying I might be a deadbeat endear you to me.

She was standing there staring at me, as if expecting me to interrupt my tea-drinking activities to pay the bill at once. I did so: I put $23 exactly on the tray, handed it to her and said "No change."

Yeah, I was annoyed.

Now SHE gets visibly pissed off, and sharply says "Thirty five cents? Thirty five cents?? I get you change, I get you change right now!" and storms off.

I told my son we were leaving. As we headed for the door, she flounced up to me with the tray, still visibily angry, and says sharply "You take you change!"

I ignored her and walked on. I stopped at the main desk long enough to briefly recount what had happened to the hostess, then walked out without further discussion.

Was I wrong? I mean dang, she was a pretty lousy waitress to start with, but she could have gotten a decent tip if she hadn't been rude and pushy about the bill.

Cultural misunderstanding? Is this some kind of Asian thing? She might be Chinese, but given local demographics she's more likely to be Laotian, Hmong or Korean.

Thoughts?
 

Harry Guerrilla

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
28,955
Reaction score
12,423
Location
Not affiliated with other libertarians.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
My son has been after to me to take him to his favorite Chinese place for a couple of weeks, so last nite I took him. They have a buffet with some good black-pepper-chicken and shrimp, decent sushi, and a variety of other good stuff.

So anyway, we went and ate. This place is apparently run by a family and most of the servers are young-adult children or nieces and nephews of the owners. Service can be a bit iffy sometimes, but hey it is a buffet; all they need to do is keep the sweet tea topped off once in a while.

The waitress brought the bill-tray by before we were finished eating, which is acceptible I suppose. She hadn't been especially prompt with the tea refills, but I was still planning to leave her the usual tip. The bill for the two of us comes to 22.65, and I usually put $25 on the tray and tell them to keep the change.

Now this is a buffet... I figure $2.35 is a decent tip in a place like that for two people, where all the waitress has to do is refill your tea once in a while. It's over ten percent anyway. If it was a fancy restaurant where the wait staff does EVERYTHING for you, I'd leave a bigger tip because they DO more.

We don't usually get in a big hurry, when we go there we like to enjoy it and I'm prone to linger over my last couple of bites and finish off my tea. As I was doing this, the waitress comes back, *picks up the bill-tray from our table and sets it directly in front of me*, and says "You pay now?" kind of pointedly.

I found this to be very rude, and it annoyed me greatly. It seemed like it was either "pay up and get out so I can get more people in here" (it wasn't like they were standing in line outside!) or "I'm worried you might try to skip out without paying" (we've been there several times before, you'd think...)

Either motive offended me. Hey, if I'm paying out 22.65 for dinner for two, don't freaking rush me! Nor does implying I might be a deadbeat endear you to me.

She was standing there staring at me, as if expecting me to interrupt my tea-drinking activities to pay the bill at once. I did so: I put $23 exactly on the tray, handed it to her and said "No change."

Yeah, I was annoyed.

Now SHE gets visibly pissed off, and sharply says "Thirty five cents? Thirty five cents?? I get you change, I get you change right now!" and storms off.

I told my son we were leaving. As we headed for the door, she flounced up to me with the tray, still visibily angry, and says sharply "You take you change!"

I ignored her and walked on. I stopped at the main desk long enough to briefly recount what had happened to the hostess, then walked out without further discussion.

Was I wrong? I mean dang, she was a pretty lousy waitress to start with, but she could have gotten a decent tip if she hadn't been rude and pushy about the bill.

Cultural misunderstanding? Is this some kind of Asian thing? She might be Chinese, but given local demographics she's more likely to be Laotian, Hmong or Korean.

Thoughts?
You did fine.
If someone wants to get pushy and act like an asshole, they don't deserve a tip.
 

LaMidRighter

Klattu Verata Nicto
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
30,534
Reaction score
10,682
Location
Louisiana
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I waited tables in college and also enjoy many asian restaurants in my area. From what I saw described here she was just a lousy waitress, and a very poor reflection of the restaurant, especially considering asian culture is one of hosting and that is considered a very big responsibility to do so properly. When I waited we NEVER set the bill down during any part of the meal service unless the customer specifically requested it due to whatever reasons they would make that request(I had a couple of those due to time considerations), we were always discouraged from directly confronting people over the tip, and most of the time other tables made up for that anyway, I also knew when I had an off night with a table so if I got pinged for that on the tip end.......eh, probably deserved to get stiffed. And last but not least, if my regulars that were always good about tipping wanted to sit and relax, fine with me and one less table I have to take on if I'm "in the weeds".
 

Andalublue

Hello again!
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
27,097
Reaction score
12,352
Location
Granada, España
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
My son has been after to me to take him to his favorite Chinese place for a couple of weeks, so last nite I took him. They have a buffet with some good black-pepper-chicken and shrimp, decent sushi, and a variety of other good stuff.

So anyway, we went and ate. This place is apparently run by a family and most of the servers are young-adult children or nieces and nephews of the owners. Service can be a bit iffy sometimes, but hey it is a buffet; all they need to do is keep the sweet tea topped off once in a while.

The waitress brought the bill-tray by before we were finished eating, which is acceptible I suppose. She hadn't been especially prompt with the tea refills, but I was still planning to leave her the usual tip. The bill for the two of us comes to 22.65, and I usually put $25 on the tray and tell them to keep the change.

Now this is a buffet... I figure $2.35 is a decent tip in a place like that for two people, where all the waitress has to do is refill your tea once in a while. It's over ten percent anyway. If it was a fancy restaurant where the wait staff does EVERYTHING for you, I'd leave a bigger tip because they DO more.

We don't usually get in a big hurry, when we go there we like to enjoy it and I'm prone to linger over my last couple of bites and finish off my tea. As I was doing this, the waitress comes back, *picks up the bill-tray from our table and sets it directly in front of me*, and says "You pay now?" kind of pointedly.

I found this to be very rude, and it annoyed me greatly. It seemed like it was either "pay up and get out so I can get more people in here" (it wasn't like they were standing in line outside!) or "I'm worried you might try to skip out without paying" (we've been there several times before, you'd think...)

Either motive offended me. Hey, if I'm paying out 22.65 for dinner for two, don't freaking rush me! Nor does implying I might be a deadbeat endear you to me.

She was standing there staring at me, as if expecting me to interrupt my tea-drinking activities to pay the bill at once. I did so: I put $23 exactly on the tray, handed it to her and said "No change."

Yeah, I was annoyed.

Now SHE gets visibly pissed off, and sharply says "Thirty five cents? Thirty five cents?? I get you change, I get you change right now!" and storms off.

I told my son we were leaving. As we headed for the door, she flounced up to me with the tray, still visibily angry, and says sharply "You take you change!"

I ignored her and walked on. I stopped at the main desk long enough to briefly recount what had happened to the hostess, then walked out without further discussion.

Was I wrong? I mean dang, she was a pretty lousy waitress to start with, but she could have gotten a decent tip if she hadn't been rude and pushy about the bill.

Cultural misunderstanding? Is this some kind of Asian thing? She might be Chinese, but given local demographics she's more likely to be Laotian, Hmong or Korean.

Thoughts?
No. You were absolutely right. Tips are for giving when you have enjoyed good service. You didn't, no tip, end of. I know that there is quite a difference between tipping cultures in the US and those elsewhere, such as here in Spain. I believe that waiting and bar staff in the US are paid very low basic wages and hence rely on tips to allow them to earn a decent income. I don't like the idea of that. It means that the establishment owners are paying very little of their overheads in staff costs. I guess it also means they can charge less ($23 for dinner for 2 sounds VERY cheap to me. Here you'd pay double that for a reasonable Chinese buffet) and hence the onus on you to tip. I also get the idea that tipping in the US is the standard and you only don't tip under special circumstances, such as those you describe. Here the opposite is the case. Standard practice is NOT to tip, but if you receive good service and a friendly welcome you would. Most people would round a bill up, not think in terms of percentage. Other Europeans do think in terms of 10% added to the bill.

I work in a hotel and restaurant. In my experience the best tippers are (in descending order) Germans, English, Norwegians, Irish. The worst are Spanish, Dutch, Australians, Americans. Sorry to put you guys last, but we get about 100 or so US guests a year and I've never received a tip from any of them. I think it's because they have read the guide books telling them that this is not a tipping culture and see not tipping as a part of their holiday. They get sick of the expectation of it at home so, when no one is actually EXPECTING a tip, they don't disappoint. What they don't realise is that wages here are very low. I earn around $1,000 a month and the tips that I do get both give me a boost to think I've done a good job and help keep the wolf from the door, especially at the moment when things are so bad economically.

Sorry, I didn't mean to derail your thread, but I think you were 100% right and I would have done exactly the same in your position.
 

1069

Banned
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
24,978
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
People are hurting in this economy; those who work for tips are hurting worse than others (many of my friends work in the hospitality industry).
For some reason, everyone who can afford to still eats out, even if they can't afford to leave a tip, or feel it economically prudent not to leave one, or to skimp on the tip, or to leave an insulting tip (less than a dollar).

It's got everybody a little high-strung.
Waiters and waitresses have children to support too. They make far less than the regular minimum wage (in my state, they make $2.13 per hour) and the IRS taxes them for the tips it is estimated they'll make over the course of a year.
When the economy takes a crap, and suddenly everybody decides that they can still afford to eat out in restaurants but can no longer afford to tip their servers, well.
Let's just say those who work for tips are a little stressed out right now.
 

Andalublue

Hello again!
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
27,097
Reaction score
12,352
Location
Granada, España
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
People are hurting in this economy; those who work for tips are hurting worse than others (many of my friends work in the hospitality industry).
For some reason, everyone who can afford to still eats out, even if they can't afford to leave a tip, or feel it economically prudent not to leave one, or to skimp on the tip, or to leave an insulting tip (less than a dollar).

It's got everybody a little high-strung.
Waiters and waitresses have children to support too. They make far less than the regular minimum wage (in my state, they make $2.13 per hour) and the IRS taxes them for the tips it is estimated they'll make over the course of a year.
When the economy takes a crap, and suddenly everybody decides that they can still afford to eat out in restaurants but can no longer afford to tip their servers, well.
Let's just say those who work for tips are a little stressed out right now.
10, as a working waiter I agree that we are working under stress right now. I've just had my hours cut and I honestly don't know what the future holds economically speaking, but that is surely a reason to be more attentive to customers rather than less. We need the tips so we need to be offering even better (which doesn't mean more fawning!) service than ever. This girl that Goshin came across clearly isn't hurting enough.
 

Goshin

The Hammer of Chaos
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
45,504
Reaction score
50,052
Location
Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
10, as a working waiter I agree that we are working under stress right now. I've just had my hours cut and I honestly don't know what the future holds economically speaking, but that is surely a reason to be more attentive to customers rather than less. We need the tips so we need to be offering even better (which doesn't mean more fawning!) service than ever. This girl that Goshin came across clearly isn't hurting enough.

Hey, I'm just wondering where the heck she got the idea that shoving the bill in my face while I'm still finishing my meal, and acting like I had to pay it right that second, was a good way to get a nice tip!

If she'd left well enough alone for another five minutes, she'd have gotten a very reasonable tip for a buffet waitress.
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
What he said.

Personally, I would've been nastier, so bravo.
Agreed.

Goshin - sounds like she had a bad day and was taking it out on you and when you didn't play nicey-nice she got more upset. Her troubles, not yours. You did fine as already stated. I worked both behind a bar and at the front of the house for a few years during college. Tips are usually a reflection of how well you do --- there are exceptions and granted, all she does visibly is top off your tea, she probably is doing more behind the scenes - in no way however does that excuse or legitimatize her behavior. Perhaps a good excuse to find a 2nd best Chinese place to go to... something this waitress doesn't seem to get... doing things like that drive customer's to find alternatives.
 

Glinda

You kids get off my lawn!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
1,716
Reaction score
790
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It seemed like it was either "pay up and get out so I can get more people in here" (it wasn't like they were standing in line outside!) or "I'm worried you might try to skip out without paying" (we've been there several times before, you'd think...)
You realize that your impression of WHY she wanted you to pay sooner rather than later may have no basis in reality, don't you?

And in fact, there is another possibility, one I've encountered before in all types of restaurants. It's entirely possible that you were this young lady's last customer at the end of her shift. Have you considered that while you "lingered," she needed to finish up her last table and be somewhere else? (This is not an excuse, but a very reasonable possibility.)

Yes, as an American, I would say her "You pay now?" behavior seemed rude, although through personal experience I've learned that such "pushiness" can be quite common among Asians. I used to take San Francisco's Chinatown buses on a daily basis - "pushy" (plus "aggressive, physical, loud, demanding, oblivious") doesn't begin to describe how the Chinese people on those buses interacted with each other or with the non-Chinese passengers.

I suspect at least some of her "You pay now?" brusqueness cultural. Ditto for your reactions.

Do you think, if the waitress had said "I apologize for asking this, but I really need to leave and must finish all transactions before I go. Could you possibly pay now?" it might have sparked an entirely different reaction from you?

(Note: I'm not saying you caused the tiff; seems to me it's more like cultural differences/norms on both sides that led to the altercation.)
 
Last edited:

samsmart

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 7, 2009
Messages
10,316
Reaction score
6,470
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Hey, I'm just wondering where the heck she got the idea that shoving the bill in my face while I'm still finishing my meal, and acting like I had to pay it right that second, was a good way to get a nice tip!

If she'd left well enough alone for another five minutes, she'd have gotten a very reasonable tip for a buffet waitress.
If I were you, I'd either 1) talk to the manager or 2) request a particular waitress who offers better service.

On the other hand, it could have been an off day for her. We all have them. That doesn't excuse her behavior, but I understand it.
 

Gipper

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
25,120
Reaction score
7,658
Location
Theoretical Physics Lab
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I don't tip at buffets. And even if I did, I would never tip at a Chinese restaurant. The scenario described here isn't highly uncommon. Asians make awful waitstaff, universally.
 

Goshin

The Hammer of Chaos
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
45,504
Reaction score
50,052
Location
Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
You realize that your impression of WHY she wanted you to pay sooner rather than later may have no basis in reality, don't you?

And in fact, there is another possibility, one I've encountered before in all types of restaurants. It's entirely possible that you were this young lady's last customer at the end of her shift. Have you considered that while you "lingered," she needed to finish up her last table and be somewhere else? (This is not an excuse, but a very reasonable possibility.)

Yes, as an American, I would say her "You pay now?" behavior seemed rude, although through personal experience I've learned that such "pushiness" can be quite common among Asians. I used to take San Francisco's Chinatown buses on a daily basis - "pushy" (plus "aggressive, physical, loud, demanding, oblivious") doesn't begin to describe how the Chinese people on those buses interacted with each other or with the non-Chinese passengers.

I suspect at least some of her "You pay now?" brusqueness cultural. Ditto for your reactions.

Do you think, if the waitress had said "I apologize for asking this, but I really need to leave and must finish all transactions before I go. Could you possibly pay now?" it might have sparked an entirely different reaction from you?

(Note: I'm not saying you caused the tiff; seems to me it's more like cultural differences/norms on both sides that led to the altercation.)
If she had said something like the bolded sentence, she would indeed have gotten an entirely different reaction. I would have smiled and said "Sure sweetie, no problem," and made sure she got her tip before she went off-shift. Come to think of it, I have had a waitress or two tell me something like that before and I was obliging and thought nothing of it.

Possibly her limited English (and there are only a handful of employees there that speak reasonably good English) was an issue, but the attitude I felt coming off of her was very pushy and disagreeable. Perhaps some of that was cultural stuff, but as others have said this is America: you adapt to American ways if you want to do biz here.

If her apparent pushiness hadn't annoyed me so, I might have mildly asked "what's your hurry?" and seen what kind of response I got.

The thing is, this isn't the first time I or someone I know has had problems with the waitstaff at that place. We had a big family birthday dinner there once, and my niece got irate with a LAZY-ass waiter whose behavior started off rude and surley and got worse from there. She confronted the manager over it and he said something like "well, this a family business, he family." Basically declining to discipline his employee despite outrageously rude and lazy behavior far worse than the one with me and my son.

Other times we've been there, the service was fair to decent. I've been willing to give them more chances because the food is good and the price not unreasonable.

Apparently though, poor and rude service has been and will continue to be an ongoing issue there, so I think I'm done with the place. There's a couple other similar places that are just as good, with better service, and I think they'll be getting my biz from now on.
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
50,492
Reaction score
32,223
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
after seeing this statement
If her apparent pushiness hadn't annoyed me so, I might have mildly asked "what's your hurry?" and seen what kind of response I got.
i would need to hear her side of the story to make a call whether your behavior during that meal was dickish or reasonable
 

Goshin

The Hammer of Chaos
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
45,504
Reaction score
50,052
Location
Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
after seeing this statement

i would need to hear her side of the story to make a call whether your behavior during that meal was dickish or reasonable
Bud, my interaction with her up until she shoved the bill at me consisted of the following:

Before we sat down, in response to her question about drinks I said "Two sweet teas, please," and smiled.

That was it. The one time our tea got refilled it was actually not her, but a different waitress that refilled it. She got a smile and a nod.

How I could manage to piss someone off when that was the entirety of our interaction is beyond me.
 

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,433
Reaction score
16,986
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
(replying without reading any other responses).
It's my experience that all orientals of any country of origin (even citizens from birth in the US) all behave this way. They aren't being rude - its' just a cultural thing that we perceive is rude when it's not.

I've had the exact same 'attitude' in various oriental places cross-country, regardless of whether it's a buffet, fine dining or even the bagger who carries out my bags at the commissary. Heck, my best friend in highschool worked in her family's restaurant and she had that attitude just the same with me - all the time.

So, just mentally note the cultural-difference and don't fret it :shrug:
Next time I'd just suggest you try not to take their cultural-differences to heart. . . if you're a foreigner elsewhere you're likely to be rude without realizing it - same thing with people who come here to make a living (even if they were born here - culture can be found at home).
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
50,492
Reaction score
32,223
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Bud, my interaction with her up until she shoved the bill at me consisted of the following:

Before we sat down, in response to her question about drinks I said "Two sweet teas, please," and smiled.

That was it. The one time our tea got refilled it was actually not her, but a different waitress that refilled it. She got a smile and a nod.

How I could manage to piss someone off when that was the entirety of our interaction is beyond me.
and your presentation may very well be exactly the way it played out
but with your indicated propensity to push the buttons of those serving you, i would need to hear her account of the event to come to a fair and reasonable conclusion
for your sake, i hope it is just as you have presented it
otherwise, like gipper (because he refuses to tip at these restaurants and obviously walks in with a low opinion of the wait staff - only because they are asian), you should anticipate the food service personnel being inclined to tamper with your food and/or drink
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
and your presentation may very well be exactly the way it played out
but with your indicated propensity to push the buttons of those serving you, i would need to hear her account of the event to come to a fair and reasonable conclusion
for your sake, i hope it is just as you have presented it
otherwise, like gipper (because he refuses to tip at these restaurants and obviously walks in with a low opinion of the wait staff - only because they are asian), you should anticipate the food service personnel being inclined to tamper with your food and/or drink
Dude - it's a buffet, they can't mess with the food unless they do it for everyone. And I think lugie's float in tea, but I could be wrong. You inclination to not want to make an opinion ... is that because it's Goshin who's a got conservative leanings or just because you're so very unbiased, and like a judge, must hear evidence from both sides to form an opinion. :roll: No one's going to revoke someone's bleeding heart liberal club card if you say something partially negative about a minority waitress, or someone who earns minimum wage - and yes, I apologize for "going there" but it's just ****ing obvious, and it had to be said. Here's where you deny it... so I apologize again. Maybe I'm just a little oversensitive today for some reason.
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
50,492
Reaction score
32,223
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Dude - it's a buffet, they can't mess with the food unless they do it for everyone. And I think lugie's float in tea, but I could be wrong. You inclination to not want to make an opinion ... is that because it's Goshin who's a got conservative leanings or just because you're so very unbiased, and like a judge, must hear evidence from both sides to form an opinion. :roll: No one's going to revoke someone's bleeding heart liberal club card if you say something partially negative about a minority waitress, or someone who earns minimum wage - and yes, I apologize for "going there" but it's just ****ing obvious, and it had to be said. Here's where you deny it... so I apologize again. Maybe I'm just a little oversensitive today for some reason.
i can only conclude from your posts that you don't actually want an answer to your question 'was i wrong', unless it is the answer you are seeking
if my honest appraisal offends you, maybe you should not solicit replies to that question on a public board
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
i can only conclude from your posts that you don't actually want an answer to your question 'was i wrong', unless it is the answer you are seeking
if my honest appraisal offends you, maybe you should not solicit replies to that question on a public board
I'd say you were correct, if you actually MADE an appraisal... otherwise known as "providing an opinion" --- but hey, maybe Goshin can give you the address and phone number and you can give them a call and "get their side of the story".
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
50,492
Reaction score
32,223
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I'd say you were correct, if you actually MADE an appraisal... otherwise known as "providing an opinion" --- but hey, maybe Goshin can give you the address and phone number and you can give them a call and "get their side of the story".
or i could employ your technique and refuse to read anything about what has been discussed and still offer an ignorant assessment
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
or i could employ your technique and refuse to read anything about what has been discussed and still offer an ignorant assessment
You could take the occurances at face value... too much to ask apparently.
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
50,492
Reaction score
32,223
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
You could take the occurances at face value... too much to ask apparently.
then i was correct
you weren't really asking a question
you just wanted others to convince you - based on one side of the story - that you were not actually being a dick
i would say 'nice try' but it wasn't
 

Moon

Why so serious?
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
9,944
Reaction score
5,114
Location
Washington State
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
i can only conclude from your posts that you don't actually want an answer to your question 'was i wrong', unless it is the answer you are seeking
if my honest appraisal offends you, maybe you should not solicit replies to that question on a public board
It wasn't Ockham's question to begin with, it was Goshin's. Maybe try out that advice about reading before assessing, etc., etc.
 
Top Bottom