Restaurant refuses Iraq War Veteran and service dog

[sangha]

The guy said something that troubled me. I'll try to get over it and not cry myself to sleep. So, I'd like to hear the other side of the story. Surely that's not unreasonable?

What troubled you was his comment that he would not eat there again. Actually, I think a better word than troubled would be "confused"

There is something troubling my inner detective. At the end of the interview version I watched on Fox.com he says he won't give this guy his business again.

Again? Were you there before? Did you bring your dog? Did you act up? So, I searched for more info and it seems to be that suing restaurants over service animals not a new thing occurrence. Some substantial settlements from McDonalds.

You seem to think that his use of the word "again" indicates that he had been there before. It doesn't, I think his use of the word "again" tripped your wires for some reason.

He went there once (the time he was kicked out) and now he won't go back again. He was never there before.

 

[Hatuey]

A service dog for a disabled person is not a companion.

Service Dogs - Canine Companions for Independence

Imagine having a dog that could turn on lights, pick up dropped keys or open a door. Canine Companions for Independence Service Dogs are partnered with adults with physical disabilities to assist with daily tasks and increase independence by reducing reliance on other people. A Service Dog can pull their partner in a manual wheelchair, push buttons for elevators or automatic doors, and even assist with business transactions by transferring money, receipts, and packages.

A CCI Service Dog not only assists with physical tasks, but also provides social support. During a two-week training session, participants learn how to effectively handle an assistance dog to maximize use of the 40 commands.

https://www.certifymydog.com

According to the American Disabilities Act (federal) any dog assisting a person with a disability is considered a service dog. A Service Dog (companion dog) and its handler enjoys special protection under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, which gives them equal access to anywhere the general public is allowed, such as restaurants, grocery stores, movie theaters, taxis, and aircraft, as well as providing protection for handlers living in places "pets" are not generally allowed. Your "canine helper" is moments away from becoming a Certified Service Dog through Service Dog Certification of America!

Companion Dogs | Disability Assistance Dogs

A companion dog is trained to assist individuals in their home. They provide unconditional love and affection to their partner who may be elderly, home-bound or have a psychiatric or other illness. Studies have shown, that people with dogs tend to live longer, are healthier, more active and feel more fulfilled. Our companion dogs are also taught to dial 911 and provide an added measure of safety.

Mental Health Assistance Dogs - Skilled Companion Dogs

While Skilled Companion Dogs are not a substitute for doctors, therapists and supportive family members and friends; they can become an integral part of a treatment team.

Companion Dog or Service Dog: New Department of Justice Ruling | Animals at your Service

The Department of Justice (DOJ) recently sent out a newly adopted revision to the meaning and use of service animals. According to the DOJ – “new ADA rules define “service animal” as any dog that is individually trained for an intellectual, or mental disability.”

Seems as if trainers and the DOJ disagree with you a little on this.

It is something that helps them to do things.

Dogs aren't things that help you do things.

The rest of your post is undecipherable nonsense.

 

[tererun]

Like some guy who is sad because he doesn't have a vagina

I am not on disability, I do not carry around a dog, and I am not asking to violate health laws. But if he needs some medication, a shrink, and is that mental that he cannot work I am for helping him with medical care. A dog is not medicine for a perfectly physically healthy person. For a person without sight or limbs a dog actually performs some functions of those things for the disabled person. This dog is just there because he wants him with him outside the home. Now if people want to allow dogs in everywhere and allow everyone who wants their dog's companionship with them I am open to having that argument. This is not a service dog. It is just a pet.

 

[sangha]

and you said that to tererun. :lamo

That was deliberate, Mr Perceptive

 

[specklebang]

What troubled you was his comment that he would not eat there again. Actually, I think a better word than troubled would be "confused"

You seem to think that his use of the word "again" indicates that he had been there before. It doesn't, I think his use of the word "again" tripped your wires for some reason.

He went there once (the time he was kicked out) and now he won't go back again. He was never there before.

Is this an opinion© or actual knowledge?

 

[Hypersonic]

yeah, you do not get a free pass to scam the system because you are a vet. Sorry, I can see why some people do get help and have real legitimate problems that come from all of that. I can even see psychological counseling for people with PTSD and if meds help would be willing to pay for them through taxes also. Your dog is not a psychologist trained to deal with mental attacks. A PTSD dog is not helping get them things they are physically unable to get because of their injury. If he wants to wander around with his personal headshrinker because he might have a panick attack, I am not going to argue with that, but unless that dog is scooby doo the only thing it will do if you have a panic attack is to drool on you and bark. It is not going to talk him down, adminsiter a sedative, or do anything useful. Making this crap up is not helping out legitimately injured people who do need a service animal.

Your post made me lol'd.....

Although I disagree with it, I thought it was really funny especially the Scooby Doo reference.

 

[sangha]

A dog is not medicine for a perfectly physically healthy person.

And a vagina is not medicine for a perfectly physically healthy man who is just sad because he wants to walk around with a vagina wherever he goes.

Operations that mutilate someone in order to "cure" a perfectly healthy person should be outlawed.

 

[Henrin]

That was deliberate, Mr Perceptive

I'm aware of that.

 

[tererun]

Service Dogs - Canine Companions for Independence



https://www.certifymydog.com



Companion Dogs | Disability Assistance Dogs



Mental Health Assistance Dogs - Skilled Companion Dogs



Companion Dog or Service Dog: New Department of Justice Ruling | Animals at your Service





Dogs aren't things that help you do things.

The rest of your post is undecipherable nonsense.

Oh, so pretty much the same damned thing as anyone else with a pet when it comes to the mental aspect. It is a pet in that case, and it is not a service dog just because it makes a person feel better. That is what every pet does for the most part. Pet owners are not disabled and perfectly capable of getting along for the few moments their pet is not with them, and so is this guy.

 

[specklebang]

And a vagina is not medicine for a perfectly physically healthy man.

Operations that mutilate someone in order to "cure" a perfectly healthy person should be outlawed.

Hey! My lobotomy was a life-saver. But where did the vagina come from? Stage left? You're sounding like a mystic.

 

[tererun]

And a vagina is not medicine for a perfectly physically healthy man.

Operations that mutilate someone in order to "cure" a perfectly healthy person should be outlawed.

No one is saying otlaw the pet so your argument is invalid. They are just saying the pet is not allowed in a restaurant, and is not a service dog. if he wants to own a pet because it makes him feel better about things then that seems to be very legal. Obey the same rules as a pet owner. Oh, and quit comparing apples and oranges simply because you have no argument.

 

[sangha]

Is this an opinion© or actual knowledge?

It's called a "deduction"

 

[Hatuey]

Oh, so pretty much the same damned thing as anyone else with a pet when it comes to the mental aspect.

No, it really isn't. Your continued downplaying of what PTSD is, ignorance as to what a service dog does and ridiculous assertion that they aren't companion dogs should have been enough for you to pipe down in shame. However, you're now sounding more ignorant about this entire thing than Fisher. At least he tried. You're just showing you don't know the first thing about the subject in question.

Please tell me how PTSD is somehow similar to being sad. Do you know how people get diagnosed with PTSD? I'll give you a clue - you don't just show up with a sad face sticker on your forehead and get a paper for it.

 

[Surtr]

That is nice and all, and that is pretty much feeling bad. Those are feelings you know, and they would appear to be negative ones hence the bad. Now that you have done all of this can you explain to me how a dog stops most of them? Does the dog have an infaltable shrink couch he carries around so he can address the trauma when it occurs? Does he have a drum of anti-psychotics to drink out of when the guy startys getting all panicky? Does the dog jump on him and give him a relaxing massage when he starts to fell these feelings? In case he falls asleep at the table was the dog trained at the inception school for dream intervention to come in and rescue him from his nightmare? I am all for shrink, and meds, and counseling to help, but the owner was right. If you cannot handle eating breakfast without a freakout perhaps you need a bit more than a dog.

You obviously have no idea what PTSD is, so just stop. Your retarded tough guy act isn't doing you any favors.

 

[sangha]

No one is saying otlaw the pet so your argument is invalid. They are just saying the pet is not allowed in a restaurant, and is not a service dog. if he wants to own a pet because it makes him feel better about things then that seems to be very legal. Obey the same rules as a pet owner. Oh, and quit comparing apples and oranges simply because you have no argument.

The dog is allowed in the restaurant and it is a service dog, so it's *your* argument that's invalid.

And mutilating genitals is outlawed already. We shouldn't make exceptions just because some man feels sad that he can't walk around with a vagina wherever he goes. As a straight man, I sometimes feel sad that I can't have vagina wherever I go, but that does not justify allowing doctors to mutilate someone's genitals just so I can feel better.

 

[specklebang]

It's called a "deduction"

Well, listen up Watson. I deduced a problematic lapse and while you are a man of great wisdom and I am an opium addict who wears funny hats, I'm the detective and you better remember your place.

Sherlock

 

[tererun]

The argument was that nearly every major piece of public policy toward individuals with disabilities had to deal with the concept of whether or not the policy was moral by helping them, and whether or not they deserved it. Later on, which I could not in good legal standing provide you, he also demonstrated that social policy after social policy was concerned with whether or not someone would fake it. In effect, this frequently placed the individual with a disability in a de facto mode of defense at the policy level, because at the social level, a common assumption was one of skepticism and dismissal, until proven otherwise.

Now, aside from your incorrect assumptions about each diagnosis category, I had to address what seemed to be the larger implication: that there is a rampant problem, and society is merely reacting to it. This I countered with the argument that in fact, it was a long-standing bias dating back a century or longer.

There is a pretty rampant problem of people using mental disabilities to get things. However, let us get into what is actually being said in this case. This guy cannot eat breakfast without his dog to sit there and wag it's tail. This is pretty much what the dog is there for considering it carries no medication and does not assist with physical tasks. It is just there to be a dog and to be around this guy. This guy is so bonkers, technical term, that he cannot have his breakfast without it? I am going to have to say, if you cannot get along for a few moments without your precious dog just like every other pet owner you belong in a mental hospital. You actually need constant medical attention. A person without sight cannot go a few minutes while being perfectly capable of seeing. A person without a limb cannot get use out of the limb they do not have for a few minutes. I am pretty sure this guy could eat his breakfast and go back to his dog and be perfectly fine, and if he cannot accomplish that simple task he needs more help than a dog.

 

[Hatuey]

They are just saying the pet is not allowed in a restaurant, and is not a service dog.

Good lord, ... you're bordering on desperate now.

1) The dog's certification as a service dog was validated not only by the documents provided by Glaser but also by THE POLICE officers he called.
2) People with service dogs are allowed to bring their pets into stores as per US Federal Law.
3) This dog is both a pet, a companion and a service dog.

Please stop it, you're looking MIGHTY ignorant about the basics of the case.

 

[sangha]

Well, listen up Watson. I deduced a problematic lapse and while you are a man of great wisdom and I am an opium addict who wears funny hats, I'm the detective and you better remember your place.

Sherlock

Your funny hat is a size or two too small, Sherlock.

Loosen it up.

 

[sangha]

I am going to have to say, if you cannot get along for a few moments without your precious dog just like every other pet owner you belong in a mental hospital. You actually need constant medical attention.

I say the same thing about any man who thinks they'd be better off cutting their pecker off

Lock 'em up!!

 

[tererun]

The dog is allowed in the restaurant and it is a service dog, so it's *your* argument that's invalid.

And mutilating genitals is outlawed already. We shouldn't make exceptions just because some man feels sad that he can't walk around with a vagina wherever he goes. As a straight man, I sometimes feel sad that I can't have vagina wherever I go, but that does not justify allowing doctors to mutilate someone's genitals just so I can feel better.

My argument is, despite your attempts to derail, that this is not a necessary handicapped solution. It is a perversion of the system, and this guy is lowering respect for people with legitimate disabilities who actually need service dogs. He is either crazy enough to need constant medical supervision because he cannot even eat breakfast without a dog, or he can have his breakfast and go back to his animal and feel better just like every other person. Your example is completely off base because a sex change operation does not put a vagina on a leash running around a eating establishment. No one is telling this guy he cannot own a dog. Yes, the law supports him, but I think we should start clamping down on these false crazies because it is getting a bit ridiculous and this guy is just exploiting the system because he wants his doggy.

 

[tererun]

I say the same thing about any man who thinks they be better off cutting their pecker off

Lock 'em up!!

You need to do better at that trolling thing. It is good, but I am not a republican.

 

[Hatuey]

My argument is, despite your attempts to derail, that this is not a necessary handicapped solution. It is a perversion of the system, and this guy is lowering respect for people with legitimate disabilities who actually need service dogs. He is either crazy enough to need constant medical supervision because he cannot even eat breakfast without a dog, or he can have his breakfast and go back to his animal and feel better just like every other person. Your example is completely off base because a sex change operation does not put a vagina on a leash running around a eating establishment. No one is telling this guy he cannot own a dog. Yes, the law supports him, but I think we should start clamping down on these false crazies because it is getting a bit ridiculous and this guy is just exploiting the system because he wants his doggy.

Here is what we realize from the post above:

1. You do not think PTSD is a "legitimate disability".

- The DSM-V, APA, APA (Psychiatric), and VA all seem to disagree with you.

2. You think "crazy" is a mental illness.

- It is not. Don't believe me? Try and find it in the DSM-V.

3. You argue he is a "false crazy".

- As per all the evidence presented, he is not crazy. He's not a fraud either.

------

So in essence, you've concocted a gigantic bull**** argument that has no basis in medical journals, opinions of psychiatric or psychologic associations or veterans affairs offices. Not only that, you've completely ignored the very REAL condition that is PTSD in order to make yourself look like you know just what it is you're talking about.

My suggestion: Please pick up a book on medical and psychological conditions. Learn what they are and how to explain them. Then, learn how they are treated.

Those steps alone should help ensure you don't look ignorant.

 

[sangha]

My argument is, despite your attempts to derail, that this is not a necessary handicapped solution. It is a perversion of the system, and this guy is lowering respect for people with legitimate disabilities who actually need service dogs. He is either crazy enough to need constant medical supervision because he cannot even eat breakfast without a dog, or he can have his breakfast and go back to his animal and feel better just like every other person. Your example is completely off base because a sex change operation does not put a vagina on a leash running around a eating establishment. No one is telling this guy he cannot own a dog. Yes, the law supports him, but I think we should start clamping down on these false crazies because it is getting a bit ridiculous and this guy is just exploiting the system because he wants his doggy.

And cutting off the penis of a perfectly physically healthy man is a perversion of the medical system. If a man is crazy enough to want his pecker cut off, turned inside out, and inserted into a hole the doctor cut into his crotch, then he is crazy enough to need constant medical supervision or just keep his penis and feel better about it just like every other man

Your example is just off base because this guy isn't bringing his dog into the ladies bathroom. No one is telling these so-called transgendered people that they can't use a bathroom, they just have to use the bathroom God intended them to use. These people are just exploiting the system because they want to have vagina all the time. They should just learn to deal with not having vagina all the time, just like the rest of us men.

 

[sangha]

You need to do better at that trolling thing. It is good, but I am not a republican.

Well, you certainly have got the ad hom thing going on so it's getting hard to tell the difference

You're also pretty good at ignoring the facts when they don't suit your beliefs