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Republicans want to speed up death penalty

ShamMol said:
That is if you are on death row. I go to prisons to get deposistions. They are not fun, they are not nice, and the people are mean as hell. You speak of justice, when vengeance is not justice. Justice is fairness, justice is humanity, justice is compassion. You may not feel the same way and only use the system to hurt, I use it to strengthen.
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It's not vengeance it's vindication. Justice is punishment, it is penalties applied for acts committed. It is a payback for acts against society. We as a society are not bound to be compassioniate to those who commit barbaric acts against us. We are bound to not be cruel or to use unusal punishment and the death penalty is niether.

So explain how keeping the courtroom murdered in jail under a life sentence without parole strengthens something and what exact is that something? Why is he due compassion?
 
vandree said:
I don't think that is true at all. First of all there will never be justice for the victim's family because nothing can bring back to life their loved one.
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Justice is not there to bring people back to life. If someone attacks me and I lose my arm and it can't be replaced that does is not reason for justice to not be done and the person not recieve and apporpriate punishment.


Many victims' family oppose the death penalty.
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And justice is not about just the family it is about all of us and protecting all of us from the specific offender and any potential offenders.
And justice does not equal revenge.
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It is vindication, it is a penalty earned.
 
Oh, it's THAT argument, because people stop looking after the execution, so thus no one's been PROVEN innocent post-execution. Good one there, straight up diabolical!
The fact is, regardless of whether or not it is accurate, it is still immoral. I'm gonna speak from a religious basis, leaving those who want to speak on a human rights basis the freedom to do so.
We were commanded by God "Thou shalt not kill". Christ said "He that is without sin cast the first stone". The vatican condemns the death penalty. It's not really ambiguous on the issue. The reason why is because christianity is about forgiveness, and there's no greater denial of forgiveness than killing someone for their sins. God will punish them for their sins when they get there, there's no point in speeding up the process.
 
Proponents of the death penalty have asserted that it has not been proven that an innocent person has been executed in the United States since the death penalty was restored in the mid-1970s following Furman v. Georgia. That is true only according to the proponents’ definition of innocence.

They define an innocent person as someone whose innocence has been officially exonerated, either by a court or admission by the prosecutor. Under that operative definition, innocence has never been established because the criminal justice process officially ends with execution. There simply is no process for post-execution exoneration.

However, at least 38 executions have been carried out in the United States in face of compelling evidence of innocence or serious doubt about guilt. While innocence has not been proven in any specific case, there is no reasonable doubt that some of the executed prisoners were innocent.

The case summaries:

James Adams (Florida)
Odell Barnes, Jr. (Texas)
James Beathard (Texas)
Brian K. Baldwin (Alabama)
Charles Anthony Boyd (Texas)
David Castillo (Texas)
Clyde Coleman (Texas)
Roger Keith Coleman (Virginia)
Willie Jasper Darden, Jr. (Florida)
Girvies Davis (Illinois)
Robert Nelson Drew (Texas)
James Otto Earhart (Texas)
Tony Farris (Texas)
Gary Graham (aka Shaka Sankofa) (Texas)
Lionel Torres Herrera (Texas)
Jerry Lee Hogue (Texas)
Jesse Jacobs (Texas)
Carl Johnson (Texas)
Malcolm Rent Johnson (Oklahoma)
Leo Jones (Florida)
Richard Wayne Jones (Texas)
Amos King (Florida)
Davis Losada (Texas)
Robert Madden (Texas)
Justin Lee May (Texas)
Frank Basil McFarland (Texas)
Larry Eugene Moon (Georgia)
Joseph O’Dell (Virginia)
Charles Rector (Texas)
Kenneth Ray Ransom (Texas)
Roy Michael Roberts (Missouri)
Cornelius Singleton (Alabama)
David Spence (Texas)
David Stoker (Texas)
Jesse J. Tafero (Florida)
Thomas M. Thompson (California)
Martin Vega (Texas)
Freddie Lee Wright (Alabama)
 
galenrox said:
Oh, it's THAT argument, because people stop looking after the execution, so thus no one's been PROVEN innocent post-execution. Good one there, straight up diabolical!
The fact is, regardless of whether or not it is accurate, it is still immoral. I'm gonna speak from a religious basis, leaving those who want to speak on a human rights basis the freedom to do so.
We were commanded by God "Thou shalt not kill". Christ said "He that is without sin cast the first stone". The vatican condemns the death penalty. It's not really ambiguous on the issue. The reason why is because christianity is about forgiveness, and there's no greater denial of forgiveness than killing someone for their sins. God will punish them for their sins when they get there, there's no point in speeding up the process.
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Right, oh yeah.. this is the SAME God that told the Israelites to completely destroy a civilization down to the cows and sheep? Oh, must be a different Bible. Was it the one that had the Israelites march around a city and cause the walls to collapse on the city, then kill every single person there? No, that had to be a different Bible, also. So it was the one that says "An eye for and eye, and a tooth for a tooth"? Could this be the same church that sent thousand of soldiers into a country to "destroy and liberate a city of God" (read Crusades here). Or the same church that charged it's people money so that they could go to heaven. Or the one that produces pedophiles, then covers it up so as to not "hurt the message" of the church? I'm confused. Where is the immorality in all of that? Where is the concern for mankind there? It must be something I'm missing.
 
Two wrongs don't make a right, says who? Two negatives make a positive. At least it did when I was in school :doh But what about the "wrong" that they are now a drain on society. Since we have done away with work parties cleaning up and building our roads or parks (at least for the most part), they do nothing but get "sent to their room" in the oh so effective form of punishment our parents tried on us. They still get 3 meals a day, for free, they still get an education, again, for free, they still get cable TV, for free, and they get health care for free. How many Americans can say that? I work for every luxury that I have, and yet, the prisons have all those luxuries because we are worried about offending the rights of some convicted convict. Someone who has gone out of their way to ignore the laws that keep us safe. For every one person that you cite as innocent, there are a thousand that are guilty. The phrase "you have to break eggs to make an omelet" comes to mind. Callous, yes, realistic, of course. We are a fallible people. But we also need to be held responsible for our actions. Keeping someone from socializing with part of the world is a light punishment. Especially when you consider the loss that those people have created. The lives that they have destroyed. When you convict a rapist, two people serve life terms. And there is the possibility that the rapist will be set free, and usually is. And those predators have a very high repeat offender percentage. They get out, and destroy more lives. To me, rape is even more reprehensible than murder. But our society doesn't seem to agree, after all, you still get to live, if you can call it that.There hasn't been "reform" in our prison systems since they closed Alcatraz and made our prison system into a system of day spas draining the resources that could be used in welfare, education, or health care.
 
To be FOR the death penalty, is like saying murder is a rational act.
 
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Stinger said:
Yes they can be reversed, do a Yahoo search for "death penalty reversed" and you will find ample numbers of cases where the death sentence has been reversed.

So again the point being 68% of those recieving the death sentence where not declared innocent on appeal. Most were the rulings of either anti-death penalty judges or technicalities, not that they were proven innocent.

In fact can you name any people who were executed who were later proven to have not committed the crime?
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A death, as I said, cannot ever be reversed. They are dead in the ground. That cannot ever be reversed. That is why the process takes so long so that we can basically be sure that they are guilty.

Can I get a link to that, cause I would like one.

Yes. Someone does it in this thread.

Stinger said:
It's not vengeance it's vindication. Justice is punishment, it is penalties applied for acts committed. It is a payback for acts against society. We as a society are not bound to be compassioniate to those who commit barbaric acts against us. We are bound to not be cruel or to use unusal punishment and the death penalty is niether.

So explain how keeping the courtroom murdered in jail under a life sentence without parole strengthens something and what exact is that something? Why is he due compassion?
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It is not vindicating. It is pure vengeance, that is what it is. You killed my brother and I want you dead. Pow. Vengeance. Vengeance is payback, it is not vindication.

We are bound to be passionate to all human beings, no matter waht they did. ARe you a Christian? Jesus would be ashamed. Are you a human being? Be ashamed for yourself for throwing aside the self worth of every human being, no matter waht they did.

I think the death penalty is cruel and unusal punishment, but hey, I am a lefty crazy bastard, so who the hell cares waht I think.

"So explain how keeping the courtroom murdered in jail under a life sentence without parole strengthens something and what exact is that something? Why is he due compassion?"That doesn't even make sense in the English language. He is due compassion...that I can answer...because he is human and doens't give up his inherent rights ever.
 
"So explain how keeping the courtroom murdered in jail under a life sentence without parole strengthens something and what exact is that something? Why is he due compassion?"That doesn't even make sense in the English language. He is due compassion...that I can answer...because he is human and doens't give up his inherent rights ever.
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It is interesting why they call the prison system the "Department of Corrections". What are they correcting?

You make a very good point. How many have condemned murderers, hate Manson, and yet, pray to Saint Paul. Do they ever wonder who Saint Paul was, before he was Saint Paul?
 
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I think it would be a great idea to speed it up. Right now Convicted Murderers are dying before they are given their Punishment. If your given the death penalty by a jury, it shouldn't take 10 years in the Appeals Processes. I say they should give it a 5 year limit.
 
I to would like the time for appeals speeded up..........It is ridiculous that some murderers and rapists are on death row for 25 years........I think that the maximum time for appeals should be 10 years........

Does anyone but me find it ironic that Liberals have all the compassion in the world for murderers and rapists rights but when it comes to the rights of the innocent, defenseless baby in the womb who has committed no crime they say murder them.......

Go figure.............
 
Navy Pride said:
I to would like the time for appeals speeded up..........It is ridiculous that some murderers and rapists are on death row for 25 years........I think that the maximum time for appeals should be 10 years........

Does anyone but me find it ironic that Liberals have all the compassion in the world for murderers and rapists rights but when it comes to the rights of the innocent, defenseless baby in the womb who has committed no crime they say murder them.......

Go figure.............
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I agree that the appeal process for death row inmates should be sped up. However, I also feel that the requirements for the death penalty should be very strict and that it should be approached as a means of eliminating an incurable condition of inhumanity in the inmate.

I cant even speak to the second half of your post as I am not a liberal. I am prochoice, but that is for another thread entirely.
 
The death penalty is a bad idea as far as i'm concerned. I think it's far more of a punishment to be locked up the rest of your life.

The risk of executing an innocent person is too high. Many people have had their innocence proven by DNA and other new forensic technologies. You never know what future techologies might reveal about past crimes. If you execute the wrong guy the case is pretty much closed and the real killer is still out there...
 
scottyz said:
The death penalty is a bad idea as far as i'm concerned. I think it's far more of a punishment to be locked up the rest of your life.

The risk of executing an innocent person is too high. Many people have had their innocence proven by DNA and other new forensic technologies. You never know what future techologies might reveal about past crimes. If you execute the wrong guy the case is pretty much closed and the real killer is still out there...
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I can agree with this. Thats why I believe the death penalty should only be used in the case of open and shut cases with criminals who show absolutely no remorse for their actions. Why try to spend time correcting an individual who does not have the desire or the capacity for reform?
 
Billo_Really said:
It is interesting why they call the prison system the "Department of Corrections". What are they correcting?
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If one considers the rate of recidivism, nothing.

Can you say, "Politically Correct Euphemism"?

The word "Prison" which was popular for the longest time, is much too harsh, don't you know.
 
Navy Pride said:
I to would like the time for appeals speeded up..........It is ridiculous that some murderers and rapists are on death row for 25 years........I think that the maximum time for appeals should be 10 years........

Does anyone but me find it ironic that Liberals have all the compassion in the world for murderers and rapists rights but when it comes to the rights of the innocent, defenseless baby in the womb who has committed no crime they say murder them.......

Go figure.............
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I find your reasoning to be that of a slliy ass kid......only liberals have abortions........hafingha
How in your infinte wisdom do you arrive at 10 years.
 
jallman said:
I can agree with this. Thats why I believe the death penalty should only be used in the case of open and shut cases with criminals who show absolutely no remorse for their actions. Why try to spend time correcting an individual who does not have the desire or the capacity for reform?
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In cases where there is absolutely no doubt who the killer is I could see the use of the death penalty. DNA can be used to prove someones guilt as well.
 
scottyz said:
In cases where there is absolutely no doubt who the killer is I could see the use of the death penalty. DNA can be used to prove someones guilt as well.
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Guilt should not be the only requirement for the death penalty though. Intense psychological study of the candidate to determine his/her level of remorse, capacity for reform, and their possible use for society (even if this is just making liscence plates in a facility for the rest of their natural days) should be taken into account. Every mitigating factor should come into play to avoid the death penalty, but when there are no mitigations, there simply are none.
 
SMIRKnCHIMP said:
I find your reasoning to be that of a slliy ass kid......only liberals have abortions........hafingha
How in your infinte wisdom do you arrive at 10 years.
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No other people have abortions but Liberals condone murdering in the womb but they would not want to harm the hair on the head of a murderer or rapist........

Personally 5 years is long enough for that scum but I was feeling a little kind when I said 10 years............
 
Navy Pride said:
No other people have abortions but Liberals condone murdering in the womb but they would not want to harm the hair on the head of a murderer or rapist........
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Yeah.. I'm sure prison is a giant party between the ass rapings, beatings and living in a cocrete cell. :rofl
 
scottyz said:
Yeah.. I'm sure prison is a giant party between the ass rapings, beatings and living in a cocrete cell. :rofl
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Its better then being executed...If you don't believe me ask any convicted murderer or rapist if they would rather have life in prison or be executed....One hundred percent would say life in prison.............At least there is hope there......
 
Navy Pride said:
Its better then being executed...If you don't believe me ask any convicted murderer or rapist if they would rather have life in prison or be executed....One hundred percent would say life in prison.............At least there is hope there......
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And, if you're wrongly convicted because you couldn't pay yourself a good lawyer, you can be released. Released from the gravyard is a bit more difficult.

Just my 0.02€
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Well damm.... If we can't kill them then we should reinstitute nationwide chain gangs.If I have to pay for these worthless oxygen thieves I want to get some work out of them. At least make them pay there own way instead of 3 hots and a cot and cable. If that doesn't work lets put the switch on Auto and get to work
 
Calm2Chaos said:
Well damm.... If we can't kill them then we should reinstitute nationwide chain gangs.If I have to pay for these worthless oxygen thieves I want to get some work out of them. At least make them pay there own way instead of 3 hots and a cot and cable. If that doesn't work lets put the switch on Auto and get to work
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Very interesting thought. Would you like applied to yourself if you can't pay a correct lawyer and are convicted of a crime you didn't commit?

I think that you are confident that your justice system doesn't condemn innocent people, although it has been proved it does (as all judicial systems).

If I could have that confidence, I would agree with you. As I can't, I can't.

CU
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