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Republicans want to speed up death penalty

shuamort

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Republicans want to speed up death penalty

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republicans in Congress have launched a new effort to speed up executions in the United States by limiting the ability of those sentenced to death to appeal to federal courts.

The "Streamlined Procedures Act of 2005," introduced into the House of Representatives by California Rep. Dan Lungren and in the Senate by Arizona Sen. Jon Kyl, would limit the ability of defendants facing the death sentence to have their cases reviewed by federal courts in what are known as habeas corpus appeals.

----snip------

A study headed by Columbia University statistician and political scientist Andrew Gelman of all 5,826 death sentences imposed in the United States between 1973 and 1995 found that 68 per cent were reversed on appeal.

Federal courts examining habeas corpus appeals overturned 40 percent of the cases that had previously been upheld by state appeals courts -- a fact the authors called worrisome.
 

vandree

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Why do they want to speed it up? Why risking executing someone who is innocent for example. Just wondering what the reasoning behind it is :confused:
 

Datamonkee

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I'm for either speeding up the process for NEWLY convicted inmates, or abolishing the death penalty all together. My reasons are purely fiscal. To execute a present day death row inmate costs our government millions of dollars, where a 85 cent bullet would do. From all the appeals they receive to the inane petitions to stay execution from "fans" of murderers, it just builds and builds to where it has become a million dollars industry to protect the convicted. Where our money should be spent EDUCATING these people, we are struggling to keep them alive when they have removed viable members of society. Clean out death row, then use the money saved to build working schools, that educate and protect future generations.
 

shuamort

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One of the sponsors, Dan Lungren, when talking about stem cell research said:

Rep. Dan Lungren, R-Sacramento, said he opposed the legislation even though it could help members of his own family, including an older brother with Parkinson's.

"The worst mistakes we've ever made in the history of this nation have been when we have defined a part of the human family as less than fully human, and done things to them that we would not allow done to ourselves," Lungren said.
So, I guess he's ok with getting executed without appeal?
 

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Datamonkee said:
I'm for either speeding up the process for NEWLY convicted inmates, or abolishing the death penalty all together. My reasons are purely fiscal. To execute a present day death row inmate costs our government millions of dollars, where a 85 cent bullet would do. From all the appeals they receive to the inane petitions to stay execution from "fans" of murderers, it just builds and builds to where it has become a million dollars industry to protect the convicted. Where our money should be spent EDUCATING these people, we are struggling to keep them alive when they have removed viable members of society. Clean out death row, then use the money saved to build working schools, that educate and protect future generations.
Welcome to Debate Politics.

You seriously think the anti-death penalty people are "fans of murders?"
 

ShamMol

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Pacridge said:
Welcome to Debate Politics.

You seriously think the anti-death penalty people are "fans of murders?"
That is basicallly what he said. Honestly, my parents are both in the law and I have heard of about 5 different cases just at the dinner table where the decision was reversed or they were let go because of prosecutorial misconduct, dna, new facts, etc. It is a long process, but a very fair and complete one (with the exception of two states) which results in fewer errors. But I ask again, why not lock them up in prison, which costs less. The person who was for speeding it up for fiscal reasons, would you support life in prison because it costs less?
 

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vandree said:
Why do they want to speed it up? Why risking executing someone who is innocent for example. Just wondering what the reasoning behind it is :confused:
How about the guy who committed the courthouse murders in Georgia? Why slow that down? There is no doubt he did it, he is sane, he is guilty. How about speeding it up in such cases?

How about the guy who buried the little girl alive in the trailer? Why wait.

The guy who murdered the family and ran off with the little boy and little girl. They just caught him with the little girl and believe they now have the boys body. No doubt he did it, why slow it down for him?
 

Stinger

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Pacridge said:
Welcome to Debate Politics.

You seriously think the anti-death penalty people are "fans of murders?"
There most certainly are fans of them.
 

ShamMol

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Stinger said:
There most certainly are fans of them.
Try fans of justice.

If you speed it up for some, that goes against the 14th Amm.
 

Stinger

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shuamort said:
A study headed by Columbia University statistician and political scientist Andrew Gelman of all 5,826 death sentences imposed in the United States between 1973 and 1995 found that 68 per cent were reversed on appeal.[/QUOTE]

The death sentence or the conviction itself?
 

ShamMol

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A death can't be reversed, so obviously the sentence-whether it be changed to life or lifted altogether.
 

Pacridge

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Stinger said:
There most certainly are fans of them.
I suppose you're right. There are "fans." I mean how many times have you read or heard about some lady seeking out someone like the "Night Stalker?" In fact I think some dumba*s married the evil lunatic on death row. So that's true there are "fans."

I just thought the poster made it sound like anyone opposed to the death penalty was a fan of murders. I absolutely don't believe that. It's like suggesting anyone who opposes our current situation in Iraq must then love Saddam and wish he were still in power. Simply not true. You can be anti-death penalty and despise murders. Much like you can be anti-Iraq war and still think Saddam's a douche bag.
 

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I actually didn't mean it exactly in that fashion. There are several people that idolize the mass murderers and try to finance/petition for a stay of execution or a re-trial.
But a lot of those that oppose the death penalty do not have any regard for the justice for the family of the victim. Why should the person that killed a loved one be allowed to live a full life when that loved one's was cut so terribly short? Don't tell me about the rigors of prison life. How cut off the prisoner is. They get well cooked meals, comfortable cells, cable TV, and free education. I have to struggle to get meals on the table, still sleep in a day bed, and haven't had cable in years. It is almost worth committing crime to get away from the struggles of a law-abiding life.
 

ShamMol

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Datamonkee said:
I actually didn't mean it exactly in that fashion. There are several people that idolize the mass murderers and try to finance/petition for a stay of execution or a re-trial.
But a lot of those that oppose the death penalty do not have any regard for the justice for the family of the victim. Why should the person that killed a loved one be allowed to live a full life when that loved one's was cut so terribly short? Don't tell me about the rigors of prison life. How cut off the prisoner is. They get well cooked meals, comfortable cells, cable TV, and free education. I have to struggle to get meals on the table, still sleep in a day bed, and haven't had cable in years. It is almost worth committing crime to get away from the struggles of a law-abiding life.
That is if you are on death row. I go to prisons to get deposistions. They are not fun, they are not nice, and the people are mean as hell. You speak of justice, when vengeance is not justice. Justice is fairness, justice is humanity, justice is compassion. You may not feel the same way and only use the system to hurt, I use it to strengthen.
 

Datamonkee

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ShamMol said:
That is if you are on death row. I go to prisons to get deposistions. They are not fun, they are not nice, and the people are mean as hell. You speak of justice, when vengeance is not justice. Justice is fairness, justice is humanity, justice is compassion. You may not feel the same way and only use the system to hurt, I use it to strengthen.
Well, actually, justice has NOTHING to do with humanity or compassion. Justice is blind. Justice is fair. Justice is balanced. Check out dictionary.com's definition of justice, and find the humanity or compassion there. Where is it humane, or compassionate to let a murderer live while his victim, and their family members and friends must live the rest of their lives without the love and humanity of the victim? Please show me where that is fair, humane, and compassionate. Do we say, "Hey there, who cares that your brother was murdered, get over it, forgive the B*st*rd that killed him, have compassion for him. Just be thankful it wasn't you that got murdered instead."
I hate to break this to you, but love does not conquer all. Those that kill only understand violence in return. You can not reason with them. They are beyond that. You can not hope to duplicate the high that a person who kills receives by simple reason and "compassion".
Take all the depositions you wish. Placate all the prisoners that have killed and now are treated SO unfairly by the system. The families of the victims should not want justice, they should just get over it. Forget the sons, daughters, mothers, and fathers that have their lives cut short so that you can continue to feel self important and humane. Of course prison is not a walk in the park. It is supposed to be a punishment. But when law abiding citizens look at the prison system, they see a useless, money-sucking waste of "justice". There is no reform in prison. If there was, then the majority of prisons would not be filled with repeat offenders. I work with ex-convicts and those on probation, and do you know that not a single one of them feel remorse about what they did, only the unfairness of getting sent to prison for "no reason". One had someone die in his apartment from bad drugs. It wasn't his fault. He didn't force that person to take the drugs, he only sold them. Now he can't vote. Poor poor him. He's lucky that it wasn't a relative of mine. I've seen the prison system at it's finest, I could eliminate him, and get off with a slap on the wrist.
 

vandree

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But a lot of those that oppose the death penalty do not have any regard for the justice for the family of the victim.


I don't think that is true at all. First of all there will never be justice for the victim's family because nothing can bring back to life their loved one. Many victims' family oppose the death penalty. And justice does not equal revenge. I think that one of the most powerful speeches was given by Matthew Shepard's father at the sentencing's hearing:

"Matt became a symbol- some say a martyr, putting a boy-next-door face on hate crimes. That's fine with me. Matt would be thrilled if his death would help others. On the other hand, your agreement to life without parole has taken yourself out of the spotlight and out of the public eye. It means no drawn out appeals process, chance of walking away free due to a technicality and no chance of a lighter sentence due to a 'merciful' jury. Best of all you won't be a symbol. No years of publicity, no chance of a commutation, no nothing- just a miserable future and a more miserable end. It works for me.

My son was taught to look at all sides of an issue before making a decision or taking a stand. He learned this early when he helped campaign for various political candidates while in grade school and junior high. When he did take a stand, it was based on his best judgement. Such a stand cost him his life when he quietly let it be known that he was gay. He didn't advertise it but he didn't back away from the issue either. For that I'll always be proud of him. He showed me that he was a lot more courageous than most people, including myself. Matt knew that there were dangers to being gay but he accepted that and wanted to just get on with his life and his ambition of helping others.

Matt's beating, hospitalization and funeral focused world-wide attention on hate. Good is coming out of evil. People have said "Enough is enough." You screwed up, Mr. McKinney. You made the world realize that a person's
lifestyle is not a reason for discrimination, intolerance, persecution and violence. This is not the 1920's, 30's and 40's of Nazi Germany. My son died because of your ignorance and intolerance. I can't bring him back.
But I can do my best to see that this never, ever happens to another person or another family again. As I mentioned earlier, my son has become a symbol- a symbol against hate and people like you; a symbol for encouraging respect for individuality, for appreciating that someone is different, for tolerance. I miss my son but I'm proud to be able to say that he is my son.

Mr. McKinney, one final comment before I sit and this is the reason that I stand before you now. At no time since Matt was found at the fence and taken to the hospital have Judy and I made any statements about our
beliefs concerning the death penalty. We felt that that would be an undue influence on any prospective juror. Judy has been quoted by some right wing groups as being against the death penalty. It has been stated that
Matt was against the death penalty. Both of these statements are wrong. We have held family discussions and talked about the death penalty. For example, he and I discussed the horrible death of James Byrd, Jr. in Jasper, Texas. It was his opinion that the death penalty should be sought and that no expense should be spared to bring those responsible for this murder to justice. Little did we know that the same response would come about involving Matt. I, too, believe in the death penalty. I would like nothing better than to see you die, Mr. McKinney. However, this is the time to begin the healing process. To show mercy to someone who refused to show any mercy. To use this as the first step in my own closure about losing Matt. Mr. McKinney I am not doing this because of your family. I am definitely not doing it because of the crass and unwarranted pressures put on by the religious community. If anything, that hardens my resolve to see you die. Mr. McKinney, I'm going to grant you life, as hard as it is for me to do so, because of Matthew. Every time you celebrate Christmas, a birthday or the fourth of July, remember that Matthew isn't. Every time you wake up in
that prison cell, remember that you had the opportunity and the ability to stop your actions that night. Every time that you see your cell mate, remember that you had a choice and now you are living that choice.
You robbed me of something very precious and I will never forgive you for that. Mr. McKinney, I give you life in the memory of one who no longer lives. May you have a long life and may you thank Matthew every day for it.


Your Honor, Members of the Jury, Mr. Rerucha

Thank you. "


The rest of the statement is here: http://www.gardenerscorner.com/MatthewShepard.html
 

cnredd

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Republicans want to speed up death penalty
nice cheap shot...I guess when Clinton let Bin Laden slide your post would've said "Democratic President endorses terrorism"...both idiotic and extreme.

I would like nothing better than to see you die, Mr. McKinney. However, this is the time to begin the healing process. To show mercy to someone who refused to show any mercy. To use this as the first step in my own closure about losing Matt.
The problem with Mr. Shepard's violin-inducing speech is that the trial was not MR.SHEPARD v. defendants....Its THE PEOPLE v. defendants...

In the eyes of the law, Mr. Shepard did not lose his son named Matt...SOCIETY has lost Mr.Shepard's son named Matt.

What if someone killed a relative of mine, and I say "Free him and give him $50 for a lap dance down at the local topless joint". I'm pretty sure I'd get laughed out of town...although the ACLU would applaud me...
 

SouthernDemocrat

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cnredd said:
nice cheap shot...I guess when Clinton let Bin Laden slide your post would've said "Democratic President endorses terrorism"...both idiotic and extreme.



The problem with Mr. Shepard's violin-inducing speech is that the trial was not MR.SHEPARD v. defendants....Its THE PEOPLE v. defendants...

In the eyes of the law, Mr. Shepard did not lose his son named Matt...SOCIETY has lost Mr.Shepard's son named Matt.

What if someone killed a relative of mine, and I say "Free him and give him $50 for a lap dance down at the local topless joint". I'm pretty sure I'd get laughed out of town...although the ACLU would applaud me...
1. Clinton did not let “Bin Laden slide”. I know you right wingers like to blame everything on him, but just the same, his Administration heralded in the greatest period of peace and prosperity in our nations history. I know that’s off topic, but figured it needed to be addressed.

2. You are right, the trial was “The People vs. Defendants”. So really, it wasn’t up to Matthew Shepard’s father what happened to his son’s killers, but rather, it was up to our society what we choose to do to them.

3. No, the ACLU would not applaud you if you choose to set a rightfully convicted murderer free. I know it’s a foreign concept to most right wingers, but the ACLU defends the constitution. That may not always put them on the side of good people. For example, they jumped to Limbaugh’s defense. However, on balance, I would hate to live in a nation where we did not have organizations like the ACLU defending our rights.

Finally, in my opinion, they should either speed up the death penalty appeals process or abolish it entirely. Those statistics quoted earlier were not for death penalty convictions being overturned, but rather were for the sentences being overturned. 99.9% of the time, the death penalty appeals process is used by thugs who were rightfully convicted to spend millions of taxpayer dollars just to delay their sentence being carried out another year or two. To be honest, I am against the death penalty. However, I am not against it out of sympathy for those sentenced to death because as far as I am concerned, they are getting exactly what they deserve. But rather I am against it because it’s so expensive to carry out and there have been cases where the wrongfully convicted were executed. So in the end, why not just let them rot in jail for the rest of their lives. So what if they live 20 or even 50 years after their conviction. For most of them, in the end, all they have is hell to look forward to.
 
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cnredd

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1. Clinton did not let “Bin Laden slide”. I know you right wingers like to blame everything on him, but just the same, his Administration heralded in the greatest period of peace and prosperity in our nations history. I know that’s off topic, but figured it needed to be addressed.
You entirely missed the point...the topic of this thread is Republicans want to speed up death penalty...

There are TWO Congresspersons who have raised the issue...there has been no vote on it yet...No one knows if any or all Democrats agree with the bill.
No one knows if every other Republican disagrees with it.

Thus, a shot of cheapness.

The part where Clinton heralded anything good can be discussed some other time, but seeing how you portray me as one of those "right wingers", I think we can agree that this would be an exercise of futility.
 

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Its called an "Express Lane". :mrgreen:

The Joke it was referenced:
BCCT(Blue Collor Comedy Tour)
Ron White - "......while other states are abolishing the death penalty, my state is putting in an express lane!"
:joke:

I hope someone gets a laugh!
 

cnredd

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The Joke it was referenced:
BCCT(Blue Collor Comedy Tour)
Ron White - "......while other states are abolishing the death penalty, my state is putting in an express lane!"
I was thinking it the whole time I was typing. :)
 

ShamMol

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Datamonkee said:
Well, actually, justice has NOTHING to do with humanity or compassion. Justice is blind. Justice is fair. Justice is balanced. Check out dictionary.com's definition of justice, and find the humanity or compassion there. Where is it humane, or compassionate to let a murderer live while his victim, and their family members and friends must live the rest of their lives without the love and humanity of the victim? Please show me where that is fair, humane, and compassionate. Do we say, "Hey there, who cares that your brother was murdered, get over it, forgive the B*st*rd that killed him, have compassion for him. Just be thankful it wasn't you that got murdered instead."
I hate to break this to you, but love does not conquer all. Those that kill only understand violence in return. You can not reason with them. They are beyond that. You can not hope to duplicate the high that a person who kills receives by simple reason and "compassion".
Take all the depositions you wish. Placate all the prisoners that have killed and now are treated SO unfairly by the system. The families of the victims should not want justice, they should just get over it. Forget the sons, daughters, mothers, and fathers that have their lives cut short so that you can continue to feel self important and humane. Of course prison is not a walk in the park. It is supposed to be a punishment. But when law abiding citizens look at the prison system, they see a useless, money-sucking waste of "justice". There is no reform in prison. If there was, then the majority of prisons would not be filled with repeat offenders. I work with ex-convicts and those on probation, and do you know that not a single one of them feel remorse about what they did, only the unfairness of getting sent to prison for "no reason". One had someone die in his apartment from bad drugs. It wasn't his fault. He didn't force that person to take the drugs, he only sold them. Now he can't vote. Poor poor him. He's lucky that it wasn't a relative of mine. I've seen the prison system at it's finest, I could eliminate him, and get off with a slap on the wrist.
Few problems with your post that I immediately see. You don't want reform. You say there is no reform, and that is the fault of the prisons. False. The rehabilitation part of prison has been taken out and now it is only vengeance and punishment. That is wrong. Justice is blind, fair and impartial, that is why we don't let families decide what happens to the people who did that to victims-that wouldn't be fair. ""Hey there, who cares that your brother was murdered, get over it, forgive the B*st*rd that killed him, have compassion for him. Just be thankful it wasn't you that got murdered instead." A person should find it within themselves to say that he forgives the man, but that doesn't happen anymore. We don't say be thankful you weren't murdered, we say, he is in there for a long time and will be punished. We do what is fair for all.

It is not humane to execute anybody in my opinion, no matter what they did. If I was murdered, my parents know what I would want to happen. I would want him put in prison for life. That isn't showing compassion, that is justice. And if it turns out there is evidence to prove his innocence, buh-bye prison, you are free to go. If the guy is executed (and so many innocent have), there is nothing we as a society can do except say, whoops...sorry bout that. There are no reversals there.

I don't agree with the fact that these people only understand violence. That is false. If I were to murder someone, I would rather die than stay in prison my entire life. That is horrible. You have to sit there, day after day, knowing you will never get out. A lot of people say that execution is a way to stop violence, and a lot of people are on the opposite side of that. I think that we as a society have to show humane treatment to all, no matter waht they did, even if they weren't humane. Two wrongs don't make a right, ever.

"But when law abiding citizens look at the prison system, they see a useless, money-sucking waste of "justice". " Agreed, that is the broken system which needs fixing.
 

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ShamMol said:
A death can't be reversed, so obviously the sentence-whether it be changed to life or lifted altogether.
Yes they can be reversed, do a Yahoo search for "death penalty reversed" and you will find ample numbers of cases where the death sentence has been reversed.

So again the point being 68% of those recieving the death sentence where not declared innocent on appeal. Most were the rulings of either anti-death penalty judges or technicalities, not that they were proven innocent.

In fact can you name any people who were executed who were later proven to have not committed the crime?
 
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