"Republicans" advancing on the Capitol

[jmotivator]

I didn't agree or disagree with that statement I didn't make or address, since it's not a claim YOU made. I notice you created a straw man to beat up, which is consistent with the rest of your comments in this thread. Who claimed unknown and unnamed "Republicans" support (or do not support) the Patriot Front, and what does that have to do with allegations you're making that they are not "real?"

Also, you didn't answer my question. "Who would you, in a real world, expect to "lay claim" to "these idiots"? What does it even mean for someone else or some other group to "lay claim" to a group they aren't part of? What evidence is there that "nobody" wants to "lay claim" to this group?

More to the point, why are you gaslighting for this group of white supremacists? What's your goal here?

I'm not making any straw men arguments. I stated that the nobody claims the Patriot Front and everyone (except, presumably themselves) thinks they are idiots and you didn't disagree.

That is all we really need to know, and there isn't much beyond that to know other than that every time these guys pop up out of nowhere there are threads trying to use the event as ammunition against Republicans and Conservatives as if we are all here cheering them on.

 

[JasperL]

I'm not making any straw men arguments.

In fact you did by quoting me, making up a claim I didn't make and you didn't make, then announcing we agree on this claim never made.

I stated that the nobody claims the Patriot Front and everyone (except, presumably themselves) thinks they are idiots and you didn't disagree.

But you're making up more bullcrap. Who should "claim" them and what does that even mean? And what evidence is there "nobody" "claims" this group or that "everyone" thinks they are idiots. You haven't even made the claim they are idiots, or even acknowledged their white supremacist core, much less condemned them for that. Instead you are gaslighting for them, and insinuating they are a false front of some kind.

That is all we really need to know, and there isn't much beyond that to know other than that every time these guys pop up out of nowhere there are threads trying to use the event as ammunition against Republicans and Conservatives as if we are all here cheering them on.

You don't need to cheer them on. Just make vague allegations they are somehow a false front, which conveniently then shifts the 'blame' for this group of white supremacist scum to the left, then gaslight for them, run interference for them.

 

[JasperL]

They aren't ghosts, you and I agree. I have no idea what their motive is because we know precisely zero about any of them.

So you start you comment off with a lie, or evidence you've done precisely NO investigation of them. e.g.

Patriot Front

www.adl.org

Patriot Front

Patriot Front is a white nationalist hate group that broke off from Vanguard America in the aftermath of the deadly “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, of August 12, 2017.

www.splcenter.org

Letter Requesting the DOJ Investigate Patriot Front — Western States Center

www.westernstatescenter.org

They just randomly show up places make little to no public statement and **** off in their U-Hauls. As a white supremacist group they are an enigma as is the strange boundary that our national media places between themselves and the Patriot Front.

By "real" I mean an actual organization whose purpose is as advertised, rather than a false front

If you want to claim they're a false front, show your work. You have no evidence they are fake, so why the gaslighting?

Compare this, for instance, to the White Supremacists who marched on Charlottesville. They announced weill in advance in the hopes of rallying people to their cause. There is no attempt to rally anyone with Patriot's Front. There isn't even a clear explanation of how the recruit, or why all of their recruits appear to be in shape.

First of all Vanguard America, the predecessor to this group, was there - the guy who plowed into the crowd was a member. Compare them if you want. And the leaders of the rally in Charlottesville was ONE group, many showed up.

And why the random lie about "all of their recruits appear to be in shape." They wear khakis and a tucked in shirt. That's not the same as in shape. These two guys led the most recent march. One is clearly obese, the other right there, and obviously very overweight. The clear majority of the rest of them are obviously overweight, many obese, some 'normal', or about what you'd expect from any random gathering of relatively young men in America.

It's just weird.



Why would I make an accusation of things that I don't have evidence to support? I'm not a Democrat!

Either the Patriot Front is exactly who they say they are and they aren't worth our attention, or they are fake and they aren't worth our attention.

In any case, trying to connect them and their professed ideology to your political rivals for political points is stupid when your opponents denounce them as well.

You haven't 'denounced' them, or their beliefs. All you've done is play PR for them, gaslighting the rest of us on their behalf, created straw men to attack, and in the process condemn the left with vague insinuations of sinister false fronts.

 

[jmotivator]

So you start you comment off with a lie, or evidence you've done precisely NO investigation of them. e.g.

Patriot Front

www.adl.org

Patriot Front

Patriot Front is a white nationalist hate group that broke off from Vanguard America in the aftermath of the deadly “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, of August 12, 2017.

www.splcenter.org

Letter Requesting the DOJ Investigate Patriot Front — Western States Center

www.westernstatescenter.org

What is it you are trying to prove here? The ADL and SPLC have pulled information off of the Patriot Front website which wouldn't prove whether the Patriot Front is a real White Supremacist organization or a ... front. The third link would indicate that the DOJ isn't investigating the Patriot Front?

I guess it's understandable why the DOJ isn't investigating since what we have seen from the Patriot Front so far is that they peacefully assemble, say some dumb shit occasionally and then they leave in an orderly fashion in their U-Hauls, so there wouldn't be much for the DOJ to investigate.

or about what you'd expect from any random gathering of relatively young men in America.

All you have done here is present another way that the Patriot Front is demographically peculiar for White Supremacists.

Also, 41% of people in America are obese, pretty weird that in a group of 100 Patriot front members they seem to be beating the trend on age and body mass... do they have an obstacle course tryout?

 

[JasperL]

What is it you are trying to prove here? The ADL and SPLC have pulled information off of the Patriot Front website ...

I'm going to ignore all the rest because that's a lie. There's much more to their reports than what's on the website, which you would know if you read beyond the first paragraph, which you didn't do or are lying about.

Again, why are you gaslighting on behalf of these white supremacists? Worse, you're lying about stuff that you know is a lie and I know is a lie. What's your goal here?

I will comment on this:

The third link would indicate that the DOJ isn't investigating the Patriot Front?

No, it doesn't indicate anything of the sort, unless all of a sudden the DOJ has started announcing all the investigations that it's conducting, which you know it does not do except in the rarest of cases, so why are you trying MORE gaslighting? The link was there to show the evidence that group claims to exist that shows this group is real and is in fact active, and like the ADL and SPLC articles includes many links to their claims.

What we get from you is BS, like 'why are they all so fit??' when the marchers are clearly about like America, including being led by someone obviously obese, with another guy at his side obviously overweight if not obese, and any quick scan would show the rest are about like the average football game crowd in notoriously obese E TN.

 

[jmotivator]

In fact you did by quoting me, making up a claim I didn't make and you didn't make, then announcing we agree on this claim never made.

I quoted you questioning who would lay claim to the Patriot Front, and the answer to your rhetorical question would be other white supremacists. Since Democrats and Republicans don't lay claim to them I'm glad we can agree that Republicans don't agree with the Patriot Front.

But you're making up more bullcrap. Who should "claim" them and what does that even mean? And what evidence is there "nobody" "claims" this group or that "everyone" thinks they are idiots. You haven't even made the claim they are idiots, or even acknowledged their white supremacist core, much less condemned them for that. Instead you are gaslighting for them, and insinuating they are a false front of some kind.

People who lay claim to the Patriot Front if they agreed with the Patriot Front. Nobody is agreeing with the Patriot Front.

You don't need to cheer them on. Just make vague allegations they are somehow a false front, which conveniently then shifts the 'blame' for this group of white supremacist scum to the left, then gaslight for them, run interference for them.

Well no, your logic is flawed. I can state that a Swastika painted on a home is potentially painted by the homeowner for publicity without endorsing what the Swastika stands for.

I personally think that our efforts in countering hate and violence in the population is to focus on the stuff that is real, and that focusing on the fake stuff, especially fake stuff that is being done specifically to enflame hatred, should be ignored.

 

[jmotivator]

I'm going to ignore all the rest because that's a lie. There's much more to their reports than what's on the website, which you would know if you read beyond the first paragraph, which you didn't do or are lying about.

Again, why are you gaslighting on behalf of these white supremacists? Worse, you're lying about stuff that you know is a lie and I know is a lie. What's your goal here?

So the SPLC and ADL didn't get the Patriot Front platform from the Patriot Front website?

I mean, ADL's article on Patriot Front:



SPLC:



... from the Patriot Front manifesto... and where did SPLC get the manifesto? I'll give you three guesses because you might need all three...


Whose lying here, Jasper? Because it isn't me.

 

[JasperL]

I quoted you questioning who would lay claim to the Patriot Front, and the answer to your rhetorical question would be other white supremacists. Since Democrats and Republicans don't lay claim to them I'm glad we can agree that Republicans don't agree with the Patriot Front.

I don't have any idea what unnamed "Republicans" agree with or not, and neither do you. There are a lot of "Republicans" in this country and I'm sure what they support runs a very wide gamut. Same with "Democrats." If you want to be specific about who does or doesn't OPENLY support or not support this group, you'll need to do so. Worth noting that I haven't claimed ANY "Republicans" support or don't support this group.

People who lay claim to the Patriot Front if they agreed with the Patriot Front. Nobody is agreeing with the Patriot Front.

Cite? There's no one who agrees with their general white supremacist message? I'm sure that is false.

Well no, your logic is flawed. I can state that a Swastika painted on a home is potentially painted by the homeowner for publicity without endorsing what the Swastika stands for.

Or it could have been painted by a neo-Nazi. If you want to claim false front, you'd need more than your bad faith questioning.

I personally think that our efforts in countering hate and violence in the population is to focus on the stuff that is real, and that focusing on the fake stuff, especially fake stuff that is being done specifically to enflame hatred, should be ignored.

But there's no evidence any of this group is 'fake' in any way. All the EVIDENCE, including them in fact showing up and marching, the distribution of propaganda, the cases of vandalism and graffiti, the arrests, indicate they are real. That's the problem, and the bigger problem is you asserting they are fake, and in doing so shifting the blame to leftists or Deep State or something.

 

[JasperL]

So the SPLC and ADL didn't get the Patriot Front platform from the Patriot Front website?

So you're trolling or lying, or both. Here's my comment.

There's much more to their reports than what's on the website, which you would know if you read beyond the first paragraph, which you didn't do or are lying about.

Yes, they got stuff off their website, which is a real website about a real group and quoting them in their own words is instructive about what they believe and what they want to present to the world. Of course ADL et al. do that.

But all those reports have FAR more than what's on the patriot front website, which you know, and are lying about. There is lots of discussion about what they DO, all over the country, how they operate, the requirements of membership, the leadership, and more.

But do tell us some more about how fit they are, when the march was led by an obese person! That's the best gaslighting - the kind that takes a casual glance to debunk! Why are you doing this?

 

[jmotivator]

I don't have any idea what unnamed "Republicans" agree with or not, and neither do you. There are a lot of "Republicans" in this country and I'm sure what they support runs a very wide gamut. Same with "Democrats." If you want to be specific about who does or doesn't OPENLY support or not support this group, you'll need to do so.

Well that's the point, you can't name any republicans that support the Patriot Front which is why Democrats want to link the Patriot Front to all Republicans every time their group pops up out of nowhere.

Cite? There's no one who agrees with their general white supremacist message? I'm sure that is false.

As I stated earlier, other white supremacists would support the Patriot Front. So what can you conclude about people who don't support the Patriot Front (ie. Democrats and Republicans)? I know you can get there, it's an easy logical next step.

Or it could have been painted by a neo-Nazi. If you want to claim false front, you'd need more than your bad faith questioning.

Possibly, but lately these stories end up going the other way a lot of the time.

The list of bogus ‘hate crimes’ in Trump era is long

In the wake of the arrest of actor Jussie Smollett, who was charged with staging his own racist and homophobic attack, here are just some of the other crimes that have been given prominent play by …

nypost.com

Thankfully there aren't nearly as many neo-Nazis in the country these days as the Democrats fear. There are so few they seem to have to make up fake hate crimes quite often.

But there's no evidence any of this group is 'fake' in any way. All the EVIDENCE, including them in fact showing up and marching, the distribution of propaganda, the cases of vandalism and graffiti, the arrests, indicate they are real. That's the problem, and the bigger problem is you asserting they are fake, and in doing so shifting the blame to leftists or Deep State or something.

Tell me, how could you tell the different between a real Patriot Front rally and a fake one?

 

[JasperL]

I personally think that our efforts in countering hate and violence in the population is to focus on the stuff that is real, and that focusing on the fake stuff, especially fake stuff that is being done specifically to enflame hatred, should be ignored.

I'll address this separately because the OP was started by someone who didn't just ignore the Patriot Front. The video makes claims, baselessly of course, that they are a false front. Well, when people do that they are in fact doing the PR work for the group, by providing them deniability as even a real group pushing real white supremacist beliefs. In that case, the flyers they distribute aren't a hate group pushing white supremacy, but some shadowy false flag group, which then delegitimizes people like ADL, SPLC, and various LEO groups and of course those on 'the left' who work to expose these people and condemn their hateful ideology.

Their ideology is real. Groups try to focus on the 'real' and then you show up with gaslighting, straw men and obvious lies to run interference for them and in doing so delegitimize the groups focusing on the 'real.' It's transparent.

 

[jmotivator]

So you're trolling or lying, or both. Here's my comment.

No, I'm saying that you are lying. I was talking about the Patriot Front motivations and stated that it what ADL and SPLC stated came from the website.

.. because it came from the website.

Yes, they got stuff off their website, which is a real website about a real group and quoting them in their own words is instructive about what they believe and what they want to present to the world. Of course ADL et al. do that.

So you were calling me a liar when I wasn't lying.

But all those reports have FAR more than what's on the patriot front website, which you know, and are lying about. There is lots of discussion about what they DO, all over the country, how they operate, the requirements of membership, the leadership, and more.

Well, no there isn't FAR MORE on those ADL and SPLC pages because the Patriot Front hasn't actually DONE much of anything.

So, tell me the worst crime that a Patriot Front member has been charged with?

Face it, the ONLY reason you really care about the Patriot Front is because of what is in that manifesto.

But do tell us some more about how fit they are, when the march was led by an obese person! That's the best gaslighting - the kind that takes a casual glance to debunk! Why are you doing this?

Well, the guy in front wasn't really obese. He was definitely government supervisor sized, though!

 

[jmotivator]

I'll address this separately because the OP was started by someone who didn't just ignore the Patriot Front. The video makes claims, baselessly of course, that they are a false front. Well, when people do that they are in fact doing the PR work for the group, by providing them deniability as even a real group pushing real white supremacist beliefs. In that case, the flyers they distribute aren't a hate group pushing white supremacy, but some shadowy false flag group, which then delegitimizes people like ADL, SPLC, and various LEO groups and of course those on 'the left' who work to expose these people and condemn their hateful ideology.

Their ideology is real. Groups try to focus on the 'real' and then you show up with gaslighting, straw men and obvious lies to run interference for them and in doing so delegitimize the groups focusing on the 'real.' It's transparent.

Their ideology is real insofar as their ideology is white supremacist boilerplate. As a White Supremacist group, their behavior and demographics are an outlier to the point of triggering uncanny valley feelings.

And of course I'm delegitimizing a group of proclaimed white Supremacists. Whether they are real or fake that should be the goal!

Trying to rope innocent people into collective guilt for the presence of "Patriot Front" is, after all, the goal of a group like Patriot Front whether or not the marches are real or fake.

Regardless of their status they should be ignored, not used for political narratives.

 

[JasperL]

Well that's the point, you can't name any republicans that support the Patriot Front which is why Democrats want to link the Patriot Front to all Republicans every time their group pops up out of nowhere.

Why are you telling me unnamed "Democrats" want to link the Patriot front to "ALL" republicans? That's just a straw man, and a bad one. "All" republicans don't support anything I can think of, because that would require all of 10s of millions to be in agreement on something, and what that is is a mystery to me. It's absurd, and of course you know you're creating an absurd straw man to beat up.

Also, relevant, I have not claimed ANY "Republicans" support this group, and I speak for me, not every unnamed "Democrat" out there.

As I stated earlier, other white supremacists would support the Patriot Front. So what can you conclude about people who don't support the Patriot Front (ie. Democrats and Republicans)? I know you can get there, it's an easy logical next step.

You said "nobody" supported them, and now the new claim is I guess about unnamed Democrats and/or Republicans openly and publicly supporting them. Okee dokee!

Possibly, but lately these stories end up going the other way a lot of the time.

The list of bogus ‘hate crimes’ in Trump era is long

In the wake of the arrest of actor Jussie Smollett, who was charged with staging his own racist and homophobic attack, here are just some of the other crimes that have been given prominent play by …

nypost.com

And a lot of times they are real....

Hate Crimes Case Examples

Find hate crimes case examples with the location, date, and bias motivation. Each capsule also links to relevant press releases and related documents.

www.justice.gov

Tell me, how could you tell the different between a real Patriot Front rally and a fake one?

What's a "fake" rally when it has real people marching from a named group? Were the arrests fake? Are the white supremacist flyers they distribute 'fake?' Etc. The fact of them happening is prima facie evidence of the events being "real" versus fake. If you want to claim 'fake' the burden rests with you and you've shown us nothing, but lies and gaslighting.

You might as well ask how can I tell the difference between a "real" Republican gathering and one of fake Republicans. The presence of people there who claim to be "Republicans" would seem to me prima facie evidence of that gathering being "real" and including Republicans..... What's different with these assholes?

 

[JasperL]

Well, no there isn't FAR MORE on those ADL and SPLC pages because the Patriot Front hasn't actually DONE much of anything.

You say you're not lying, then you lie more. There is far more, including about membership, leadership, what they do, places they have gathered, been arrested, and more. On the other hand, you said, quoting you: "I have no idea what their motive is because we know precisely zero about any of them." That's a lie that is disproved with any of my links, and you know it. And we normally accept that their (collectively) "motive" is what they tell us is in their own clear words is their motive, and there's nothing to indicate some other motive. Nothing.
Distributing hate literature or being a white supremacist isn't a crime that I know of and I didn't allege any crimes other than the crimes charged against them in the news reports, which I can link but you can see for yourself if you care. So, more straw men.

Face it, the ONLY reason you really care about the Patriot Front is because of what is in that manifesto.

I guess - I mean I have a problem with white supremacist scum in general, and that's evidenced by their manifesto, and what they do, which is to attempt to spread that ideology to the rest of the country. Why wouldn't I care about that?

Well, the guy in front wasn't really obese. He was definitely government supervisor sized, though!

He was obviously obese by the same definition you are using, and likely so was the guy next to him, as were many others in that group, and the rest were overwhelmingly at least overweight, and I saw nothing to indicate an unusual level of fitness in that group versus the average white person sitting in the stands at the local university football game. They did manage to walk a few blocks which would rule out many of the morbidly obese, so there's that I guess.

 

[Fletch]

Conservative "personal responsiblity". Always running away from your own actions by inventing black flag scenarios as the excuse.

​

These arent conservatives. Saying they are is ignorant and dishonest.

 

[jmotivator]

Why are you telling me unnamed "Democrats" want to link the Patriot front to "ALL" republicans? That's just a straw man, and a bad one. "All" republicans don't support anything I can think of, because that would require all of 10s of millions to be in agreement on something, and what that is is a mystery to me. It's absurd, and of course you know you're creating an absurd straw man to beat up.

Also, relevant, I have not claimed ANY "Republicans" support this group, and I speak for me, not every unnamed "Democrat" out there.

You said "nobody" supported them, and now the new claim is I guess about unnamed Democrats and/or Republicans openly and publicly supporting them. Okee dokee!

And a lot of times they are real....

Hate Crimes Case Examples

Find hate crimes case examples with the location, date, and bias motivation. Each capsule also links to relevant press releases and related documents.

www.justice.gov

Yes, and sometimes they are real. My point stands, arguing that a supposed hate crime doesn't seem right isn't an endorsement of the hate, it's just pointing out that the particular hate crime claim seems dubious.

In the very same way that pointing out how odd a hate group the Patriot Front is isn't an endorsement of their manifesto and you attempted to accuse me of doing.

What's a "fake" rally when it has real people marching from a named group? Were the arrests fake? Are the white supremacist flyers they distribute 'fake?' Etc. The fact of them happening is prima facie evidence of the events being "real" versus fake. If you want to claim 'fake' the burden rests with you and you've shown us nothing, but lies and gaslighting.

Who are the people though? When the group in question covers their faces, shows up, marches and loads into a U-Haul, how do you know that the people dressed as Patriot Front members actually are? Saying they are real people isn't really an answer.

Again, saying that they hand out flyers means nothing. Whether the guys behind the masks are actual members of Patriot Front or not they could still hand out flyers.

You might as well ask how can I tell the difference between a "real" Republican gathering and one of fake Republicans. The presence of people there who claim to be "Republicans" would seem to me prima facie evidence of that gathering being "real" and including Republicans..... What's different with these assholes?

Well no, if the Republican isn't wearing a mask then we can get their name, look them up, see if they support the Republican platform, see if they donate to Republicans, etc. etc.

When 100 guys in masks show up, march and pile into a U-Haul you have no clue who they are and no way to check what they actually believe.

Again, the wall you refuse to admit exists is in their anonymity. If Antifa showed up, didn't attack police, marched peacefully and went away we'd have no evidence that Antifa was a real terrorist group... but they show up, attack police and sometimes murder people.

 

[JasperL]

Their ideology is real insofar as their ideology is white supremacist boilerplate.

Versus what other kind of white supremacy? It's not exactly the stuff of geniuses - it appeals to the stupid, like all such bigotry and hate.

As a White Supremacist group, their behavior and demographics are an outlier to the point of triggering uncanny valley feelings.

I don't know what "valley" feelings are, and you've not even vaguely demonstrated, other than with gaslighting, straw men and obvious lies, that their behavior is an outlier for white supremacist groups or that their "demographics" are an outlier.

If someone not an actual moron wanted to spread white supremacy, they aren't going to do it by beating up blacks or Jews or using 'ni***r' or 'kike' or similar on social media. That does nothing but rile up the already converted morons, and offends everyone else. So that's not what they do. You'd know this if you read the sites I mentioned, or knew anything about the white supremacy movement, and what the not-idiots behind it are doing.

And of course I'm delegitimizing a group of proclaimed white Supremacists. Whether they are real or fake that should be the goal!

But that's not what you're doing, which we know from the lies and gaslighting, and creating straw men to attack. You could honestly address them and what they do, read their literature showing up all over the country, and condemn it. But instead you're making vague assertions they're some false flag or similar, which delegitimizes those condemning them, and treats the actual scum members and leaders as either corrupt agents of some unnamed false flag group or org, or victims.

Trying to rope innocent people into collective guilt for the presence of "Patriot Front" is, after all, the goal of a group like Patriot Front whether or not the marches are real or fake.

This is more of the same garbage. Who is trying to rope innocent people into guilt? Not me! I'm not the one running interference for them - that would be you. And THEIR goal, the goal of Patriot Front, is more white supremacists.

Regardless of their status they should be ignored, not used for political narratives.

Another straw man....

 

[Fletch]

You say you're not lying, then you lie more. There is far more, including about membership, leadership, what they do, places they have gathered, been arrested, and more. On the other hand, you said, quoting you: "I have no idea what their motive is because we know precisely zero about any of them." That's a lie that is disproved with any of my links, and you know it. And we normally accept that their (collectively) "motive" is what they tell us is in their own clear words is their motive, and there's nothing to indicate some other motive. Nothing.

Distributing hate literature or being a white supremacist isn't a crime that I know of and I didn't allege any crimes other than the crimes charged against them in the news reports, which I can link but you can see for yourself if you care. So, more straw men.

I guess - I mean I have a problem with white supremacist scum in general, and that's evidenced by their manifesto, and what they do, which is to attempt to spread that ideology to the rest of the country. Why wouldn't I care about that?

He was obviously obese by the same definition you are using, and likely so was the guy next to him, as were many others in that group, and the rest were overwhelmingly at least overweight, and I saw nothing to indicate an unusual level of fitness in that group versus the average white person sitting in the stands at the local university football game. They did manage to walk a few blocks which would rule out many of the morbidly obese, so there's that I guess.

So if their goal is to spread their ideology, why did they show up unannounced and vanish without saying anything. Ill bet 99% doesnt know it happened. Further, these people have no support from republicans despite dishonest leftist attempts to tie them. But thats just what you libs do.

 

[JasperL]

Why did you quote then ignore this part?

Why are you telling me unnamed "Democrats" want to link the Patriot front to "ALL" republicans? That's just a straw man, and a bad one. "All" republicans don't support anything I can think of, because that would require all of 10s of millions to be in agreement on something, and what that is is a mystery to me. It's absurd, and of course you know you're creating an absurd straw man to beat up.

Also, relevant, I have not claimed ANY "Republicans" support this group, and I speak for me, not every unnamed "Democrat" out there.

You said "nobody" supported them, and now the new claim is I guess about unnamed Democrats and/or Republicans openly and publicly supporting them. Okee dokee!

????????

Yes, and sometimes they are real. My point stands, arguing that a supposed hate crime doesn't seem right isn't an endorsement of the hate, it's just pointing out that the particular hate crime claim seems dubious.

No one is claiming them marching or distributing flyers is a "hate crime." And it only doesn't "seem right" because you're determined by any means to conclude that it's not 'right'. I don't understand your goal here. It would be far easier to just condemn them..... Takes one sentence, not made up CTs involving 100s of people being part of a false flag operation, with no one finding out about it for YEARS.

In the very same way that pointing out how odd a hate group the Patriot Front is isn't an endorsement of their manifesto and you attempted to accuse me of doing.

But the only reason they are odd you either fabricated or are basing on deliberate ignorance. What's odd about them distributing flyers promoting white supremacy? You pointed out the 'original' white supremacy movement, the KKK, was also fond of cloaking its members in anonymity, so why is PF doing it odd, given we have a long history of that in this country? Who else held peaceful marches, masked? Oh, yeah, the KKK. So odd how?

Who are the people though? When the group in question covers their faces, shows up, marches and loads into a U-Haul, how do you know that the people dressed as Patriot Front members actually are? Saying they are real people isn't really an answer.

Who else do you think they are if not members of Patriot Front?

Again, saying that they hand out flyers means nothing. Whether the guys behind the masks are actual members of Patriot Front or not they could still hand out flyers.

It is evidence of their actions, which you claim are fake, but somehow these flyers show up all over the country promoting Patriot Front and white supremacy, their website, with the manifesto and a lot more white supremacist rhetoric. Is it magic? And, again, if not members of Patriot Front, who are these people showing up marching under their name?

Well no, if the Republican isn't wearing a mask then we can get their name, look them up, see if they support the Republican platform, see if they donate to Republicans, etc. etc.

But how do we know they are "real" and not Democratic plants that are only pretending to be Republicans to discredit them? We don't.

When 100 guys in masks show up, march and pile into a U-Haul you have no clue who they are and no way to check what they actually believe.

Good point, cause KKK wore masks, and.......oh, right, that doesn't work out for you as an example.....

I don't know what YOU 'actually believe.' For all I know you're a Russian bot/troll and are just spewing stuff off a comment list. But you commenting off here and over a period of years is, again, prima facie evidence you are you, and believe what you write. If I want to claim you're a Russian troll, I have to produce some evidence.

Again, the wall you refuse to admit exists is in their anonymity. If Antifa showed up, didn't attack police, marched peacefully and went away we'd have no evidence that Antifa was a real terrorist group... but they show up, attack police and sometimes murder people.

ANTIFA wear masks, and go to great lengths to remain anonymous, so how do we know they aren't false flag operatives sent out there to discredit the left?

And FWIW, white supremacists have murdered orders of magnitude more than anyone even loosely associated with ANTIFA much less actual alleged members, but you're here to run interference for the white supremacists.

 

[JasperL]

So if their goal is to spread their ideology, why did they show up unannounced and vanish without saying anything. Ill bet 99% doesnt know it happened. Further, these people have no support from republicans despite dishonest leftist attempts to tie them. But thats just what you libs do.

They don't just show up at marches..... You could spend a whole 5 minutes on their website and understand what they do, but I guess that's asking too much.

And, again, I haven't claimed any "Republicans" support them, nor have I or CAN you or me claim that there is "no" support of them by "Republicans" because it requires you to speak for 10s of millions. Why does every argument in this thread have to be dishonest?

 

[Fletch]

They don't just show up at marches..... You could spend a whole 5 minutes on their website and understand what they do, but I guess that's asking too much.

I did. It looks like they show up at disaster areas and pass out food.

And, again, I haven't claimed any "Republicans" support them, nor have I or CAN you or me claim that there is "no" support of them by "Republicans" because it requires you to speak for 10s of millions. Why does every argument in this thread have to be dishonest?

If you are looking for 'dishonest arguments' look at the thread title.

 

[JasperL]

I did. It looks like they show up at disaster areas and pass out food.

A bunch of good samaritans I guess...

But that's not all they do, so why lie about it? One of the main requirements of membership is to regularly distribute white supremacist propaganda, that invariably references their white supremacist-promoting website, and Patriot Front tells you on the website the many places they've done that, and there are many stories about their activities and images of their flyers, which you can find in about a minute if you care.

If you are looking for 'dishonest arguments' look at the thread title.

Thread title, the OP and the video in the OP - I agree with you. The video linked in the OP that I guess you didn't bother watching is arguing or insinuating that Patriot Front is a false flag operation, and the person in the video says unnamed people claim these are "Republicans" marching, when I don't know who alleges that Patriot Front is a "Republican" group. They are a white supremacist group.

Then the OP said, "Fake Republicans marching. I smell Feds." which is a dishonest claim backed by nothing.

So yea, the dishonest argument is in the video in the OP, the OP itself, and then a series of similar dishonest arguments by others that I've addressed in this thread.

I'll also note again that I haven't claimed ANY Republicans do or don't support the group. I don't know what other 'libs' do, but I do know you created a straw man to beat the crap out of when responding to me, which is nice, and predictable.

 

[Fletch]

A bunch of good samaritans I guess...

But that's not all they do, so why lie about it? One of the main requirements of membership is to regularly distribute white supremacist propaganda, that invariably references their white supremacist-promoting website, and Patriot Front tells you on the website the many places they've done that, and there are many stories about their activities and images of their flyers, which you can find in about a minute if you care.

I read through it

Thread title, the OP and the video in the OP - I agree with you. The video linked in the OP that I guess you didn't bother watching is arguing or insinuating that Patriot Front is a false flag operation, and the person in the video says unnamed people claim these are "Republicans" marching, when I don't know who alleges that Patriot Front is a "Republican" group. They are a white supremacist group.

Then the OP said, "Fake Republicans marching. I smell Feds." which is a dishonest claim backed by nothing.

So yea, the dishonest argument is in the video in the OP, the OP itself, and then a series of similar dishonest arguments by others that I've addressed in this thread.

I'll also note again that I haven't claimed ANY Republicans do or don't support the group. I don't know what other 'libs' do, but I do know you created a straw man to beat the crap out of when responding to me, which is nice, and predictable.

Youve been given multiple opportunities to reject the false idea that these are republicans but have refused to do so, so what else is someone supposed to conclude. But do you want to know how you know they arent republicans? Because they are wearing masks. Republicans go to rallys, town halls, school board meetings all the time and and dont wear masks. So these arent republicans. Plus Trump got tens of thousands to show up on Jan 6th. These guys barely got 100. That wouldnt be true if there was any republican support for this group. The fact is Patriot Front is an insignificant organization that has no support of any kind outside of its fringe members. It is n different that the Black nationalist groups on the left that the left wing media ignores.

 

[JasperL]

I read through it

And then omitted the relevant things they do besides march.

Youve been given multiple opportunities to reject the false idea that these are republicans but have refused to do so, so what else is someone supposed to conclude.

Why would I need to reject a claim I have not made? And I don't know if these guys are Republicans or independents or Democrats, and you don't either, so why is the idea "false?" If I had to bet and these guys voted, I'd bet they are overwhelmingly MAGAs, and I'd bet a lot, but that's the first claim I've made, and MAGAs aren't necessarily "Republicans".

But do you want to know how you know they arent republicans? Because they are wearing masks. Republicans go to rallys, town halls, school board meetings all the time and and dont wear masks.

Great, the No True Scotsman fallacy! BRILLIANT!!!

So these arent republicans. Plus Trump got tens of thousands to show up on Jan 6th. These guys barely got 100. That wouldnt be true if there was any republican support for this group. The fact is Patriot Front is an insignificant organization that has no support of any kind outside of its fringe members. It is n different that the Black nationalist groups on the left that the left wing media ignores.

Why are you beating straw men?