Republican senators introduce bill to block settlement payments to separated illegal immigrants

[code1211]

LMAO... You need better sources....

Judge says Trump can separate families at border, refuses to second-guess government

U.S. District Judge Dana Sabraw found no evidence the U.S. abused its discretion when separating children from parents.

www.latimes.com

Both sources say the same thing.

What is the nuance you suspect exists?

 

[BlueTex]

Both sources say the same thing.

What is the nuance you suspect exists?

The judge ruled the administration could separate families WITH CAUSE after they ABANDONED the zero tolerance separation of families... I suppose it is asking too much for your to read the actual order...

Read together, the orders on class certification and preliminary injunction set out five criteria to be considered by DHS before an adult may be separated from his or her child at the border: lack of parentage or fitness, criminal history, communicable disease, and danger to the child. 5 Plaintiffs argue Defendants’ application of these factors is resulting in exclusion from the Ms. L. class and continued, unconstitutional separations of parents from their minor children. Plaintiffs also assert Defendants’ standards for placement in family residential centers (“FRCs”) are causing unconstitutional separations of fit parents who pose no danger to their children.

Before turning to the five factors identified above, the Court first clarifies the standard for separating parents and children at the border, as that standard informs the remaining discussion. Since the beginning of this case, Plaintiffs have argued the right to family integrity is protected by the Due Process Clause of the Constitution, and the government may not separate a parent from his or her child absent a showing the parent is unfit or presents a danger to the child. The first of these arguments is not disputed. As stated in the Court’s order denying Defendants’ motion to dismiss, “it has long been settled that the liberty interest identified in the Fifth Amendment provides a right to family integrity or to familial association.” (ECF No. 71 at 14.) What is disputed is whether, and to what extent, that right applies to the facts presented here, namely, to immigrant families taken into government custody while crossing the United States-Mexico border.

In the order on Defendants’ motion to dismiss, the Court found Plaintiffs had alleged sufficient facts to state a due process claim under the circumstances of this case, and further found the standard applicable to this claim was whether the government conduct at issue, namely the separation of parents and children at the border based on a nationwide policy or practice to deter illegal immigration, “shocks the conscience.”6 In the present motion, Plaintiffs urge the Court, as they have done throughout this case, to adopt a different standard, namely, that the separation of a parent from his or her minor child violates due process absent a showing the parent is unfit or presents a danger to the child. In support, Plaintiffs cite Quilloin v. Wolcott, 434 U.S. 246, 255 (1978) (quoting Smith v. Organization of Foster Families, 431 U.S. 816, 862-863 (1977)), which states “the Due Process Clause would be offended ‘f a State were to attempt to force the breakup of a natural family … without some showing of unfitness[.]’” See also Brokaw v. Mercer County, 235 F.3d 1000, 1019 (7th Cir. 2000) (citing Croft v. Westmoreland County Children and Youth Services, 103 F.3d 1123, 1126 (3d Cir. 1997) (“courts have recognized that a state has no interest in protecting children from their parents unless it has some definite and articulable evidence giving rise to a reasonable suspicion that a child has been abused or is in imminent danger of abuse.”). In other words, Plaintiffs argue these two factors, fitness and danger, are the only valid government interests justifying the separation of a parent from his or her child.

 

[code1211]

authority, not that it is the law. We ask you where the law REQUIRES this....you claimed it was REQUIRED, it is not. Also, here is a later ruling on this

In June 2018, the American Civil Liberties Union filed a class-action lawsuit against the federal government on behalf of two mothers (one from Brazil, one from Democratic Republic of the Congo) who had been separated from their children, seeking a halt to the policy. On June 25, the ACLU requested an injunction halting the policy.[196][197] On June 26, US District Judge Dana Sabraw of the US District Court for the Southern District of California issued a nationwide preliminary injunction against the family-separation policy.[12][13]

In his opinion, Sabraw wrote: "The facts set forth before the court portray reactive governance—responses to address a chaotic circumstance of the government's own making. They belie measured and ordered governance, which is central to the concept of due process enshrined in our Constitution. This is particularly so in the treatment of migrants, many of whom are asylum seekers and small children."[12][13] Sabraw wrote that the federal government "readily keeps track of personal property of detainees in criminal and immigration proceedings", yet "has no system in place to keep track of, provide effective communication with, and promptly produce alien children".[198] The injunction barred the US government from separating parents and children at the border unless the adults presented a danger to children, and required the government to reunite separated families within thirty days, to reunite children under five with their parents within 14 days, and to permit all separated minors to speak with their parents within ten days.[12]

(edited for length- sorry)

What level of documentation from the undocumented is demanded to establish familial ties?

MSN

www.msn.com

<snip>
According to U.S. Customs and Border Protection data, record numbers of unaccompanied minors have crossed the U.S.-Mexico border illegally in 2021. In August alone, some 18,847 children arrived. Many traveled not with parents or family members, but with human smugglers. The illicit smuggling industry is booming thanks to social media and relaxed border enforcement.

For minors, the real peril begins after entering the United States. One expert estimates 60% of the Latin American children sent across the border alone or with smugglers have been taken by the cartels.
<snip>

 

[code1211]

yeah, notice how his white supremacist, anti-immigration site didn't mention any updates to the rulings

On June 26, 2018, US District Judge Dana Sabraw issued a nationwide preliminary injunction against the family separation policy and ordered that all children be reunited with their parents within thirty days.

What level of documentation is demanded from the undocumented to prove the children are not being trafficked?

This article from March of 2021.

Migrant children at border are still being separated from relatives for weeks under Biden administration

The Biden administration is still sheltering immigrant children separated from close family members in federal facilities for weeks on end.

www.usatoday.com

<snip>

Migrant children at border are still being separated from relatives for weeks under Biden administration​

Rick Jervis
USA TODAY

<snip[>





The Biden administration is still sheltering children separated from close family members in federal facilities for weeks on end – something immigrant advocates and attorneys had hoped the new administration would resolve by now.
<snip>

 

[code1211]

You are misunderstanding what the judge ruled.. Here is an excerpt from the order:


Plaintiffs bring the present motion to enforce this Court’s June 26, 2018 preliminary injunction. That injunction was directed at the Trump Administration’s practice of separating migrant parents and their minor children when they crossed the United StatesMexico border and its failure to reunify those families in accordance with the United States Constitution. The Administration’s practice of separating these families was formally abandoned on June 20, 2018, when the President of the United States issued Executive Order No. 13841, which reestablished a policy to “maintain family unity,” and directed that alien families be detained together “during the pendency of any criminal improper entry or immigration proceedings involving their members.” However, the Executive Order did not provide any guidance on reunifying families, and did not provide any guidance on future family separations, other than stating that parents and children would not be detained together if Defendants had “concerns” that the parent posed “a risk to the child’s welfare.”

This Court’s injunction addressed those two issues. Specifically, it required Defendants to reunify within thirty days parents and minor children who had been separated under the Administration’s practices, and prohibited Defendants from separating migrant parents and their minor children in the future absent a determination that the parent was unfit or presented a danger to his or her child or had a criminal history or communicable disease.

The day after this Court issued its preliminary injunction and accompanying order granting class certification, Defendants implemented new guidelines and procedures in an attempt to comply with those orders. Nevertheless, in the year following issuance of the preliminary injunction, Defendants have separated nearly 1,000 migrant families at the border. Given these numbers, Plaintiffs fear the Administration has returned to “systematic” separation of families, prompting the present motion. It is undisputed that prior Administrations separated families at the border based on fraudulent claims of parentage, or evidence of child trafficking or other dangers to the child or community. Defendants argue their practices now are no different from prior Administrations. They point out that the number of separations at issue represents a small fraction of the number of individuals entering the border at the time in question, some 524,294 parents and children, and reflects careful exercise of discretion consistent with the Court’s orders.

Considering the Administration’s return to family unity, Defendants’ implementation of guidelines immediately following the Court’s preliminary injunction, Defendants’ authority to secure the Nation’s borders, and the scope of the class and need to avoid individualized determinations, the Court finds Defendants are generally exercising their discretion to separate families at the border consistent with Plaintiffs’ rights to family integrity and the Court’s orders, with one exception regarding DNA testing and one clarification regarding separations based on family residential center standards.

Order on Motion for Miscellaneous (Other 1) – #509 in Ms. L. v. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (S.D. Cal., 3:18-cv-00428) – CourtListener.com

ORDER Granting in part and Denying in part 439 Plaintiffs' Motion to Enforce Preliminary Injunction. Signed by Judge Dana M. Sabraw on 1/13/2020. (aef) (Entered: 01/13/2020)

www.courtlistener.com

The injunction seems to have only been a temporary one.

I'm still a little cloudy on the level of documentation required of the undocumented to prove familial ties.

Migrant children at border are still being separated from relatives for weeks under Biden administration

The Biden administration is still sheltering immigrant children separated from close family members in federal facilities for weeks on end.

www.usatoday.com

<snip>
The migrant children often arrive with a grandparent, older sibling or other relative but are separated until federal officials can confirm the accompanying adult is their relative, as required under U.S. law. The procedure, which is different from the highly controversial Trump administration policy of separating immigrant parents from their children, is designed to protect minors from human traffickers and grant them legal protections.
<snip>

 

[code1211]

we did it for how many decades for Cubans?

Good point.

Several wrongs don't make a right.

 

[code1211]

I've already stated it. I don't know how I could possibly make it more clear.

Your choice.

 

[ClaraD]

(edited for length- sorry)

What level of documentation from the undocumented is demanded to establish familial ties?

MSN

www.msn.com

<snip>
According to U.S. Customs and Border Protection data, record numbers of unaccompanied minors have crossed the U.S.-Mexico border illegally in 2021. In August alone, some 18,847 children arrived. Many traveled not with parents or family members, but with human smugglers. The illicit smuggling industry is booming thanks to social media and relaxed border enforcement.

For minors, the real peril begins after entering the United States. One expert estimates 60% of the Latin American children sent across the border alone or with smugglers have been taken by the cartels.
<snip>

DNA tests take 24 hours. A birth certificate is also pretty good evidence as well as observing the child and adult together. Not to mention names of both of them. If my last name is Martinez and the child's second last name is Martinez, it is pretty good indication the child is related maternally to me as in me being the mother.

 

[ClaraD]

Good point.

Several wrongs don't make a right.

you cannot say oh it was okay for one and not the other. Our asylum laws establish that a country that is unable or unwilling to protect its citizens is a qualification for asylum. Honduras is not only unable to protect its citizens, but they are also unwilling to do so.

 

[ClaraD]

(edited for length- sorry)

What level of documentation from the undocumented is demanded to establish familial ties?

MSN

www.msn.com

<snip>
According to U.S. Customs and Border Protection data, record numbers of unaccompanied minors have crossed the U.S.-Mexico border illegally in 2021. In August alone, some 18,847 children arrived. Many traveled not with parents or family members, but with human smugglers. The illicit smuggling industry is booming thanks to social media and relaxed border enforcement.

For minors, the real peril begins after entering the United States. One expert estimates 60% of the Latin American children sent across the border alone or with smugglers have been taken by the cartels.
<snip>

did you miss sent across the border alone? We aren't talking about children in company of an adult. The smugglers aren't going to turn themselves in. Waiting in custody costs them time and money.

 

[code1211]

The judge ruled the administration could separate families WITH CAUSE after they ABANDONED the zero tolerance separation of families... I suppose it is asking too much for your to read the actual order...

Read together, the orders on class certification and preliminary injunction set out five criteria to be considered by DHS before an adult may be separated from his or her child at the border: lack of parentage or fitness, criminal history, communicable disease, and danger to the child. 5 Plaintiffs argue Defendants’ application of these factors is resulting in exclusion from the Ms. L. class and continued, unconstitutional separations of parents from their minor children. Plaintiffs also assert Defendants’ standards for placement in family residential centers (“FRCs”) are causing unconstitutional separations of fit parents who pose no danger to their children.

Before turning to the five factors identified above, the Court first clarifies the standard for separating parents and children at the border, as that standard informs the remaining discussion. Since the beginning of this case, Plaintiffs have argued the right to family integrity is protected by the Due Process Clause of the Constitution, and the government may not separate a parent from his or her child absent a showing the parent is unfit or presents a danger to the child. The first of these arguments is not disputed. As stated in the Court’s order denying Defendants’ motion to dismiss, “it has long been settled that the liberty interest identified in the Fifth Amendment provides a right to family integrity or to familial association.” (ECF No. 71 at 14.) What is disputed is whether, and to what extent, that right applies to the facts presented here, namely, to immigrant families taken into government custody while crossing the United States-Mexico border.

In the order on Defendants’ motion to dismiss, the Court found Plaintiffs had alleged sufficient facts to state a due process claim under the circumstances of this case, and further found the standard applicable to this claim was whether the government conduct at issue, namely the separation of parents and children at the border based on a nationwide policy or practice to deter illegal immigration, “shocks the conscience.”6 In the present motion, Plaintiffs urge the Court, as they have done throughout this case, to adopt a different standard, namely, that the separation of a parent from his or her minor child violates due process absent a showing the parent is unfit or presents a danger to the child. In support, Plaintiffs cite Quilloin v. Wolcott, 434 U.S. 246, 255 (1978) (quoting Smith v. Organization of Foster Families, 431 U.S. 816, 862-863 (1977)), which states “the Due Process Clause would be offended ‘f a State were to attempt to force the breakup of a natural family … without some showing of unfitness[.]’” See also Brokaw v. Mercer County, 235 F.3d 1000, 1019 (7th Cir. 2000) (citing Croft v. Westmoreland County Children and Youth Services, 103 F.3d 1123, 1126 (3d Cir. 1997) (“courts have recognized that a state has no interest in protecting children from their parents unless it has some definite and articulable evidence giving rise to a reasonable suspicion that a child has been abused or is in imminent danger of abuse.”). In other words, Plaintiffs argue these two factors, fitness and danger, are the only valid government interests justifying the separation of a parent from his or her child.

All of this seems to assume that the adults and the children are parents and offspring.

What is the level of proof demanded of the people at the border to prove they are in fact the parents of the children from whom they are separated?

 

[BlueTex]

All of this seems to assume that the adults and the children are parents and offspring.

What is the level of proof demanded of the people at the border to prove they are in fact the parents of the children from whom they are separated?

DNA tests are one...

 

[danielpalos]

Should the National Health Service Corps get involved for better organizational purposes at ports of entry?

 

[code1211]

DNA tests take 24 hours. A birth certificate is also pretty good evidence as well as observing the child and adult together. Not to mention names of both of them. If my last name is Martinez and the child's second last name is Martinez, it is pretty good indication the child is related maternally to me as in me being the mother.

Are Birth Certificates required at the border to prove family ties? Link?

What percent of illegal border crossers are tested for DNA? Link?

I can say that my name is Abraham Lincoln. That only means that I have said that my name is Abraham Lincoln.

I know that various things COULD be done. I can't find links to anything beyond a pilot program in 2019 for DNA testing. is this ongoing and is it routinely conducted?

There are complaints that people who enter our country legally need to have documentation about Covid and the those entering illegally are not required to do so.

If we cannot even test these folks for Covid, testing their DNA seems like a pipe dream.

 

[code1211]

you cannot say oh it was okay for one and not the other. Our asylum laws establish that a country that is unable or unwilling to protect its citizens is a qualification for asylum. Honduras is not only unable to protect its citizens, but they are also unwilling to do so.

I heartily agree that the USA is the best place on the planet to live.

However, to walk from Honduras to the USA, the walker must pass through a couple other countries.

If Asylum from Honduras is what they seek, they found it before they ever got to the southern border of the USA.

Central America - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

<snip>


The seven countries of Central America and their capitals
<snip>

 

[code1211]

did you miss sent across the border alone? We aren't talking about children in company of an adult. The smugglers aren't going to turn themselves in. Waiting in custody costs them time and money.

IF the children cross the border alone, already separated from their parents, THEN they are not being separated from their parents by the US Government.

 

[ClaraD]

Are Birth Certificates required at the border to prove family ties? Link?

What percent of illegal border crossers are tested for DNA? Link?

I can say that my name is Abraham Lincoln. That only means that I have said that my name is Abraham Lincoln.

I know that various things COULD be done. I can't find links to anything beyond a pilot program in 2019 for DNA testing. is this ongoing and is it routinely conducted?

There are complaints that people who enter our country legally need to have documentation about Covid and the those entering illegally are not required to do so.

If we cannot even test these folks for Covid, testing their DNA seems like a pipe dream.

in the initial interview, if they have them, yes, they are told to provide them. If they don't the consulate for their corresponding country will provide them. DNA can be done very quickly as well. I don't need to read a link and provide it to you, because I know how this works firsthand. My in-laws all came via asylum. They of course brought kids with them. My sister-in-law had her daughter and son with her. My deceased brother-in-law's son was in tow with his grandmother. I had all of their birth certificates, the reports from the news and other evidence for their case. I provided all of this to the asylum officer in charge of their case. You do realize they have the ability to verify....the US isn't the only country in the world with ID, birth certificates and fingerprints.
Also, as I already pointed out to you, smugglers have no interest in staying in the US. They aren't vying for coming here and staying. The reason they exist is to drop people across the border and make money. They don't want to stay, because that means they make no money.

 

[ClaraD]

I heartily agree that the USA is the best place on the planet to live.

However, to walk from Honduras to the USA, the walker must pass through a couple other countries.

If Asylum from Honduras is what they seek, they found it before they ever got to the southern border of the USA.

Central America - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

<snip>


The seven countries of Central America and their capitals
<snip>

none of those countries are safe. My husband was kidnapped in one of those countries. He was only released when we paid up.

 

[BlueTex]

Are Birth Certificates required at the border to prove family ties? Link?

What percent of illegal border crossers are tested for DNA? Link?

I can say that my name is Abraham Lincoln. That only means that I have said that my name is Abraham Lincoln.

I know that various things COULD be done. I can't find links to anything beyond a pilot program in 2019 for DNA testing. is this ongoing and is it routinely conducted?

There are complaints that people who enter our country legally need to have documentation about Covid and the those entering illegally are not required to do so.

If we cannot even test these folks for Covid, testing their DNA seems like a pipe dream.

Pipe dream or not, they are under COURT ORDER to conduct DNA testing before separating a parent and child...


On the first issue, Defendants explain that DHS has implemented a pilot program using Rapid DNA technology, which can determine parentage in approximately ninety minutes. (Opp’n to Mot. at 11.) This program has been implemented in seven locations along the border, but Defendants state “operational concerns” have prevented a wholesale adoption of this program across the entire border. (Id.) It is unclear exactly what these “operational concerns” are, especially when it appears Defendants are preparing for DNA testing of immigrants being held in detention centers across the country. See Daniella Silva, Trump admin to broadly expand DNA collection of migrants in custody, NBC News (October 2, 2019, 12:51 PM), https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-admin- broadly-expand-dna-collection-migrants-custody-n1061471. Nevertheless, if testing is not available at a particular facility, Defendants can transfer the family to a facility where that testing is available, or take swabs from the parent and child and send the swabs for testing, as they did with Ms. L. and her daughter. Given the right at issue here, the harm that parents and children suffer when they are separated, and the undisputed speed, accuracy and availability of DNA testing, the Court finds Defendants must conduct DNA testing before separating an adult from a child based on parentage concerns. Such testing, in service to the fundamental right at issue, is clearly warranted. It is also an efficient and definitive way to resolve any concerns about fraudulent documentation. (See Opp’n to Mot., Ex. 2 (Decl. of Lloyd Easterling, Div. Chief, U.S. Border Patrol, RGV Sector (“Easterling Decl.”) ¶¶ 34-36 (explaining CBP concerns about fraudulent documentation and child trafficking, efforts to verify validity of documents through the consulate and other law enforcement agencies, and transfer of child to ORR when parentage “cannot be validated within a reasonable period of time.”)

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6316323/509/ms-l-v-us-immigration-and-customs-enforcement/

 

[ClaraD]

DNA tests are one...

he doesn't think these people are human or have DNA. It is a strange concept to him that these are actually humans and have DNA as well as ID and birth certificates.

 

[BlueTex]

he doesn't think these people are human or have DNA. It is a strange concept to him that these are actually humans and have DNA as well as ID and birth certificates.

The court does not give a shit what he thinks...

 

[ClaraD]

The court does not give a shit what he thinks...

oh, I know. I am pointing out to you why he thinks DNA doesn't work for migrants. The court disagrees, he will have to live with it.

 

[eohrnberger]

IF the children cross the border alone, already separated from their parents, THEN they are not being separated from their parents by the US Government.

Expanding a bit further.
If a human trafficker takes a child across the border and they are separated, then the child is not being separated from their parents by the US Government.

 

[Geoist]

Your choice.

Yes, I did make the choice to make a point. And you made a choice to not read or understand it.

 

[code1211]

DNA tests are one...

How many DNA tests are performed every day at the border on folks entering with no documents?

Seems like very few. Almost like accurate and useful information is not what the Biden Administration is seeking to gain.

Border agents performing fewer DNA tests to catch fake families under Biden

<snip>
The Biden administration is running few DNA tests on migrant families encountered at the southern border despite smugglers' tendency to hide "fake" families in with the legitimate groups.

Border officials are conducting fewer rapid DNA tests among migrant families amid soaring numbers of family arrivals than they did during the 2019 border crisis when the same number of families was being encountered each month, according to Homeland Security data obtained by the Washington Examiner.

More than 52,000 people came across the southern border as part of a family group in March, and no more than a few dozen people took rapid DNA tests to verify the adult and child were related, based on the federal numbers.
<snip>