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Republican Plan to address Enlistment numbers. (1 Viewer)

The best way to ruin the US armed forces is to restart conscription.
Forcing a bunch of people into the armed forces who actively don't want to be there will destroy moral and lower the overall combat power.

Profesional armies are always better than conscript armies.
Conscript armies won the Civil War, they won World War I and World War II. Those dayze of declared wars are gone of course, although while the Civil War was not a declared war it was a big war over an extended period of time and misery.

Just as television killed the radio stars the Vietnam War killed conscription. While conscripts in VN were a distinct minority of the total force, conscripts were instrumental in killing conscription. That together with the civilian bungling incompetence in Washington.

The force strength of numbers to the conscript army in a declared war derives from expanding the age of mandatory service, typically into the 40s. A declaration of war which won't happen again anyway would kick in the total mobilization of the entire society which mandates conscription. For WW II the draft cart came before the horse given the draft occurred when WW 2 became imminent.

In the AVF smashing success of Desert Storm in 1992 even participating allied countries such as France still had conscription -- that France ended in 1996. The AVF invasion of Iraq in 2003 was per se a classic operational success that however was followed by a devastatingly incompetent and stupid civilian nation destroying leadership.

Post 9/11 the AVF conducted "small wars" that had the professional nomenclature of "low intensity conflicts" and that were years on years long, as required. That's Afghanistan of course with Iraq thrown in by the GW Bush blithering neocons. Yet the fickle and ADD civilian society doesn't want conscription -- they'll be no WW III of course -- but neither does it want the post 9/11 small wars that necessarily extend over time. The world meanwhile and anyway has revived the old fashioned "Great Power Rivalries" driven largely by China-Taiwan and Russia-Europe.

The evolution of the AVF has come to the point of an insufficiently qualified base of recruitment. While AVF members much prefer volunteers only, 83% of 'em don't make it to 20 years. Neither does conscription address or solve this. Eligible draft age Americans would rather riot than go -- they're just unsuited and they know it. The Pentagon is resigned to a smaller AVF because there's no other viable way to go.
 
Republicans have a plan. Those words will cheer the hearts of the MAGA fanboys. It is a plan to deal with low enlistment numbers for the Military. Hearts just fluttered in the fanboys.

The Governor of Oklahoma has decided his education system will focus on a plan called Classroom to Careers. His plan? To graduate High School you must be accepted into College. If you can’t afford College, no worries you can also go to a Trade School. What if you can’t afford that? You have a third option. Aren’t options grand? You can join the Military.


Yep. You would have to do one of those three things to graduate High School.

Governor Kevin Stitt of Oklahoma unveiled his proposals on Friday the 27th of December. That is S T I T T folks. There is no H in his name.

I wonder if the Department of Education will adopt this nationally. Oh wait. They’re getting rid of that department. Well. They might keep it around for this.

Does this idiocy give anyone a headache besides me?
No headache to be had at all.
High school grads who can't handle the idea of college and don't know what kind of trade they would like to learn should look to the military as an opportunity to serve one's country and to learn a skill they can use in civilian life.

What's wrong with the option of joining the Military if you don't want to or can't get into a college?
The choice of military service can be the best option after high school. It was for me.
But for others, the prospect of living in your parents' basement probably looks good if you're a born loser.
 
What's wrong with the option of joining the Military if you don't want to or can't get into a college?

There is nothing wrong with it, but it unquestionably is not for everybody. And at this time, it is somewhere under 25% of youths that are even eligible to serve in the military in the first place.
 
There is nothing wrong with it, but it unquestionably is not for everybody. And at this time, it is somewhere under 25% of youths that are even eligible to serve in the military in the first place.
There is no question about it. Most of our teens are most likely not capable of surviving the trauma of basic training and the personal discipline that goes along with being in the military for four years.
I saw recruits kicked out of basic training and that was just the Air Force! How they survived adulthood I'm afraid to imagine.
That's why I admire Israel. It is mandatory that everyone serve in the military to defend itself against 100 million Arabs who would like to see Israel destroyed as a nation.
Most Americans are not astute enough to realize we could be facing an existential threat from the four countries that wish to see us cut down a few notches. And those countries are, to repeat myself, China, Russia, Iran, and N Korea.
 
We will never have wars with army groups, WWII style, again.

A super-power war will be over before conscripts could be fully trained.
 
There is no question about it. Most of our teens are most likely not capable of surviving the trauma of basic training and the personal discipline that goes along with being in the military for four years.

No, I mean not even getting that far.

I have talked to recruiters, and they said the most frustrating part was that most were simply not eligible to join in the first place.

The number 1 reason, drug use. Behind that was being overweight. Then unable to pass the ASVAB, then criminal background. Then comes the physical and mental issues that also prohibit them from joining (like past medical issues or tattoos).

One in California told me he sent 1/3 of them right out the door after asking them about drug use.
 
Gulf War I and Gulf War II

I think most forget that the Gulf War involved almost 700,000 US forces on the ground. That is literally almost 4 field armies of WWII. And to give an idea how large that is, there were 1.9 million in the US Army in Europe in WWII.

Hell, the largest tank battle since WWII was in the Gulf War. Involving over 300 armored vehicles on each side.

Oh, and it was pretty much a complete walkover. The US lost a single M3 Bradley. Iraq lost 160 tanks and 180 APCs (as well as 12 artillery and 80 support vehicles). Personnel losses, around 1,000 to 1. As in literally, the US lost 1 man, Iraq lost about 1,000 (and over 1,300 taken prisoner).
 
Republicans have a plan. Those words will cheer the hearts of the MAGA fanboys. It is a plan to deal with low enlistment numbers for the Military. Hearts just fluttered in the fanboys.

The Governor of Oklahoma has decided his education system will focus on a plan called Classroom to Careers. His plan? To graduate High School you must be accepted into College. If you can’t afford College, no worries you can also go to a Trade School. What if you can’t afford that? You have a third option. Aren’t options grand? You can join the Military.


Yep. You would have to do one of those three things to graduate High School.

Governor Kevin Stitt of Oklahoma unveiled his proposals on Friday the 27th of December. That is S T I T T folks. There is no H in his name.

I wonder if the Department of Education will adopt this nationally. Oh wait. They’re getting rid of that department. Well. They might keep it around for this.

Does this idiocy give anyone a headache besides me?

Cutting down on needless handouts should do the trick? Can't find a job? Want a free education? Join the military.
 
No, I mean not even getting that far.

I have talked to recruiters, and they said the most frustrating part was that most were simply not eligible to join in the first place.

The number 1 reason, drug use. Behind that was being overweight. Then unable to pass the ASVAB, then criminal background. Then comes the physical and mental issues that also prohibit them from joining (like past medical issues or tattoos).

One in California told me he sent 1/3 of them right out the door after asking them about drug use.

Young people do stupid things - a conviction, for possession of marijuana, before the age of 18 should be overlooked.
 
Republicans have a plan. Those words will cheer the hearts of the MAGA fanboys. It is a plan to deal with low enlistment numbers for the Military. Hearts just fluttered in the fanboys.

The Governor of Oklahoma has decided his education system will focus on a plan called Classroom to Careers. His plan? To graduate High School you must be accepted into College. If you can’t afford College, no worries you can also go to a Trade School. What if you can’t afford that? You have a third option. Aren’t options grand? You can join the Military.


Yep. You would have to do one of those three things to graduate High School.

Governor Kevin Stitt of Oklahoma unveiled his proposals on Friday the 27th of December. That is S T I T T folks. There is no H in his name.

I wonder if the Department of Education will adopt this nationally. Oh wait. They’re getting rid of that department. Well. They might keep it around for this.

Does this idiocy give anyone a headache besides me?
Well, okay. Military wrecked.

Great job.
 
Submarines are very useful. The seas around Taiwan wouldn’t allow many Submarines to be there without risking a friendly fire incident.

Even if it does, it is likely some ships and planes would make it to Taiwan allowing the Chinese Army to get a foothold. This is where the Army comes in.

They don’t have to invade mainland China to win. They have to destroy the invading force.
The maximum depth of the Taiwan Strait is 230 feet so we're not even speaking in meters/yards. The minimum depth of the Strait is 90 feet. For hundreds of years mariners and navies have called the Taiwan Strait "The Black Ditch" because of its different colors of conflicting currents and their natural stench with black being the predominant color. Seas in the Strait are typically 13 feet which could be worse but which are unwelcome to navies as they are. The Strait is a fog 50% of each year. Typhoons and foul weather limit the windows during which the CCP could attempt an amphibious operation which could make 'em into flailing ducks caught in a storm.

Submarines would need to operate off the island's eastern shores on the Pacific which are also the most favorable landing areas for an amphibious assault force.

The west shores of Taiwan that face the CCP mainland are rocks, cliffs, mountains, swamps and the like. There are only three possible landing areas on the mainland side that the Taiwan military have had covered for decades and where defenses are constantly upgraded with new arms from the US. The Strait is heavily mined to channel a CCP amphibious assault force into a "kill zone" 40km off the coast of each of the three only possible landing areas. Each kill zone is heavily covered by Taiwan offensive weapons most of which are from the US, to include Taiwan's recent purchase of 500 Harpoon antiship missiles but not only.

The distance across the Strait from the mainland to Taiwan island is four times the distance across the English Channel from southern England to the shores of Normandy in northernmost France. While the English Channel is 24 miles across, the Taiwan Strait is 90 miles across. Which is why the current terminology is "amphibious operation" rather than invasion. Indeed, the CCP would need to mount an amphibious operation against Taiwan that would need to be four times greater than the US led Allied invasion of D-Day in WW 2 . The PLA which the Chinese mean is the Army, Navy and AF, have zero combat experience to include their every general and admiral who are Party hack members who have to pay an arm and a leg for each star they can grab.

There's a reason Xi Jinping keeps firing his top PLA generals and now admirals which is because the Party generals and admirals see only gloom and doom in any kind of amphibious operation to land on Taiwan and to seize control of it. To even reach it in fact. Taiwan's defenses have been hardened against incoming missiles for a long time and keep getting upgraded. Fighter planes for instance are sheltered inside mountains and pilots are trained to land on damaged highways and runways using special landing gear provided by the US.

No CCP leader before Xi has ever been serious about "invading" Taiwan and no CCP leader after Xi will ever be serious about "invading" Taiwan. It's been almost all the obligatory rhetoric from 'em about it. Indeed, the Strait and the island are a maw to the PLA and the inexperienced PLA chiefs and novice commanders who know this. CCP leaders before Xi know the cost of battle to the Party and the PLA mainland bases and facilities will be prohibitively enormous, particularly since Taiwan has developed its own offensive missiles that can reach the Three Gorges Dam plus Shanghai and Beijing to make the PLA pay for harming the Taiwan civilian population with its own offensive missiles. The PLA buildup to such a massive amphibious operation precludes a surprise attack.

As far as Taiwan is concerned, this is an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and Xi's generals and admirals know this. Many mainland Chinese will die amidst massive physical destruction. Which is why the the PLA generals and admirals work against Xi behind his back. Beijing is not unified on this, it's just that public dissent against this will get you your head handed back to you on a platter. Neither will the American MSM and military "play down" the massive obstacles and high risk Beijing has to a massive military adventure against Taiwan. The costs to the CCP of battle against Taiwan will turn the people against the Party's dominance.
 
There is no question about it. Most of our teens are most likely not capable of surviving the trauma of basic training and the personal discipline that goes along with being in the military for four years.
I saw recruits kicked out of basic training and that was just the Air Force! How they survived adulthood I'm afraid to imagine.
That's why I admire Israel. It is mandatory that everyone serve in the military to defend itself against 100 million Arabs who would like to see Israel destroyed as a nation.
Most Americans are not astute enough to realize we could be facing an existential threat from the four countries that wish to see us cut down a few notches. And those countries are, to repeat myself, China, Russia, Iran, and N Korea.

Most are ineligible for other reasons. Health, drug use, criminal record, and a host of other reasons. Then they have to be able to pass the ASVAB.

Of course. We aren’t talking about it as an option. We are discussing it as a requirement.
 
No, I mean not even getting that far.

I have talked to recruiters, and they said the most frustrating part was that most were simply not eligible to join in the first place.

The number 1 reason, drug use. Behind that was being overweight. Then unable to pass the ASVAB, then criminal background. Then comes the physical and mental issues that also prohibit them from joining (like past medical issues or tattoos).

One in California told me he sent 1/3 of them right out the door after asking them about drug use.
And states continue to legalize Marijuana because the tax receipts from sales are just too addictive.
What a great excuse for some loser to not be able to join the military.
I bet if there was a draft you would see softened rules for recruitment of young people. Let them go cold turkey in basic training.
 
I bet if there was a draft you would see softened rules for recruitment of young people.

Nope, because we have already seen what drug use in the military causes.

In fact, we slackened a lot of those rules in the middle-late 2000s, and it was a disaster. They started to waiver all kinds of things, like criminal records, drug use, and education. And the results were quite clear, they were far more likely to use drugs and have discipline problems than those that were not granted such waivers. Not as bad as Project 100,000, but it help to show that such were still not desirable for military service.

The results that most closely conform to expectations are in cases of recidivism, in which accessions with specific characteristics are more likely to have negative outcomes associated with that characteristic. For example, if a recruit fails to complete the first term, recruits with a documented history of marijuana and recruits with a drug and alcohol waiver(i.e., those who test positive for the presence of drugs or alcohol) are more likely than other recruits to separate because of drug abuse. Similarly, recruits with a weight or health-related waiver, including recruits with a documented history of behavioral health conditions, are more likely to separate for health-related reasons.

In essence, it was a repeat of the Project 100,000 from the 1960s. Those who had to be given such waivers in general performed poorly compared to those not given waivers like that, and in the end it was decided it was simply not worth it. That is twice in less than 50 years it was tried, and I can't see the military trying it a third time.
 
Nope, because we have already seen what drug use in the military causes.

In fact, we slackened a lot of those rules in the middle-late 2000s, and it was a disaster. They started to waiver all kinds of things, like criminal records, drug use, and education. And the results were quite clear, they were far more likely to use drugs and have discipline problems than those that were not granted such waivers. Not as bad as Project 100,000, but it help to show that such were still not desirable for military service.



In essence, it was a repeat of the Project 100,000 from the 1960s. Those who had to be given such waivers in general performed poorly compared to those not given waivers like that, and in the end it was decided it was simply not worth it. That is twice in less than 50 years it was tried, and I can't see the military trying it a third time.
Your post makes sense.
Then what is the answer to increase volunteer recruitment?
More money? Guaranteed college education for those who want it?
Choice of assignments?
 
Then what is the answer to increase volunteer recruitment?
More money? Guaranteed college education for those who want it?
Choice of assignments?

Actually, none of that.

More than anything, many I have talked to in recent years say the lack of stability makes them shy away. And the limited potential for future career growth.

As I stated in a past post, at one time the military was seen as an amazingly stable career choice. The pay was never spectacular, but it was also largely insulated from the economy itself. You had a guaranteed job for the duration of your contract, and it was not hard to spend 20 years there and get a decent pension when you retired. And were still young enough to take another job in the civilian market before you actually retired for good. Or you could simply start your own business or live on the military pension alone. It would not be a lot of money, but you could live comfortably in much of the country on it.

Plus other retirement benefits, like insurance. And while you were in, complete medical for your family.

However, today that is simply no longer the case. The "20 year and retire" at half your pay is simply gone. You are forced to put money into essentially a 401k, that unless you take a significant tax penalty you are not going to see again for many decades. And if you join at 18 and do a full 20, you will only be 38. That means you have to get a job immediately, as you are still over 21 years away from collecting any pension at all.

And with changes made back in the 2010s, even using the VA education benefits has become a nightmare. If you decide to go to a technical school instead of a 4 year college, then your benefits and payments are going to be all kinds of jacked up. Even if you go to a college, your benefits and payments are going to be all kinds of jacked up.

And on top of that, the severely reduced troop strength has seriously impacted how many can even remain in the military for 20 years. It is simple math, the less that can be in, the fewer positions are available to serve in past your initial 4 years. That means you might serve 4, 8, or 12 years and be shown the door because there is simply not enough positions for you to move up into. Back in the 1980s and before, if somebody wanted to serve 20 years and retire it was pretty much guaranteed. Today, that is no longer the case. A great many hit those 8 and 12 year marks and are now shown the door.

"Guaranteed college" is already in place, the Webb GI Bill was a big part of that (and Montgomery before that). I actually used it twice, but the way it was broken in the 2010s made it impossible to live off of. And if you are going to serve past 4 years, you pretty much will at some point have a "choice of assignments".

But most "kids" by the time they are 18 have now disqualified themselves to be honest. Criminal records, drug use, tattoos, and poor physical fitness and other things have made it that 3/4 of those eligible can not serve even if they wanted to. And that is nobodies fault but their own.
 
Republicans have a plan. Those words will cheer the hearts of the MAGA fanboys. It is a plan to deal with low enlistment numbers for the Military. Hearts just fluttered in the fanboys.

The Governor of Oklahoma has decided his education system will focus on a plan called Classroom to Careers. His plan? To graduate High School you must be accepted into College. If you can’t afford College, no worries you can also go to a Trade School. What if you can’t afford that? You have a third option. Aren’t options grand? You can join the Military.


Yep. You would have to do one of those three things to graduate High School.

Governor Kevin Stitt of Oklahoma unveiled his proposals on Friday the 27th of December. That is S T I T T folks. There is no H in his name.

I wonder if the Department of Education will adopt this nationally. Oh wait. They’re getting rid of that department. Well. They might keep it around for this.

Does this idiocy give anyone a headache besides me?
It won't help enlistments, like draft dodges in the 60's graduates will sign up for trade schools or college, in Oklahoma the threshold to be accepted into a state school is very low. Hang in for a few months and then bail if they don't want to be there.... :unsure:
There is already pushback against requiring post graduate actions for a diploma already earned... ✌️
 
It won't help enlistments, like draft dodges in the 60's graduates will sign up for trade schools or college, in Oklahoma the threshold to be accepted into a state school is very low. Hang in for a few months and then bail if they don't want to be there.... :unsure:
There is already pushback against requiring post graduate actions for a diploma already earned... ✌️

Why would Republicans want a larger military anyway.
 

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