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Republican Plan to address Enlistment numbers. (1 Viewer)

The math does not add up.

The Army is already down to only 10 divisions. The Marines have been at 3 divisions for decades. And you want to cut that even more?

To put it in perspective, the Chinese Army has 118 divisions. The Russian Army has 18 divisions. And you want to reduce it by even more? Hell, just have 1/4 of the nation cut their own throats, that would be even more efficient.


And who in the hell is going to do that support? Here is the biggest thing about the DoD (or any other government agency), it almost never shrinks. And I am talking about the civilian employees, not the members in uniform.

Case in point, are you even aware that while there are just over 1.3 million in uniform that are on active duty, there just under 750,000 civilian DoD employees. And that is not all of the civilians, just the ones that are actual DoD government employees. There are an addition 972,000 civilian contractors that also work for the DoD that are not direct government employees.

Yes, that makes 1,722,000 thousand civilians employed for 1,300,000 in uniform. There are literally more civilians being paid by the DoD than there are military in the DoD.

Want to really save money? Cut through those civilians with a chainsaw, and get rid of at least half of them. Because they all get paid a hell of a lot more than those in uniform do.

The average pay of a DoD employee is $87,000. The average pay of a DoD contractor is $90,000. The average pay for somebody in the military is $39,000.

Reducing the size of the military will accomplish absolutely nothing. And if anything, it will as it always does result in increasing the number of civilians on the DoD payroll.

I want to address the bolded issue.

You are thinking backwards.

World War I, World War II, Korea.

It is not 1953, it is 2025.

In a war with China, it matters not if we have 1 division or 100 divisions. The United States Army will not be engaging with China if we went to war with them over Taiwan. A war with China will be fought primarily with the Navy and to a smaller extent the Air Force and with missiles of all types. It may be fought with nuclear weapons. It will not be fought with the Army.

First of all, there is no way to get the Army to China alive. And China's Army is not coming here and even if it tried, it too would not arrive alive. China built up its Army with Russia, India and southeast Asia in mind, not the United States.

Even the Marines will be irrelevant, as China's robust area denial technology would prevent the Navy from getting in close enough to land them.

The USS Jimmy Carter might be able to get SEALS in, but that would be about it for ground forces.

The Army matters for piddling around in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Time has passed it by for major wars. 8 divisions would do just fine.

Yes, I do know the Army is training for jungle warfare along China's southeast Asia border, but that pretty much would be no more than a nuisance to China and if early training results are any indication, it won't go over too well for the United States.

And again, that is even if the United States could get troops to southeast Asia at all without being taken out by various Chinese assets.

The United States should spending its limited money on the our nuclear deterrent submarine force, our attack submarine force and various conventional missiles and weaponry aimed at crippling or destroying the Chinese invasion fleet on its way from mainland China to Taiwan.

We are far better off transferring money from the Army to the Navy and other assets.
 
Technology and particularly AI have been great force multipliers

There is no need for cannon fodder in a major conventional war.
 
I want to address the bolded issue.

You are thinking backwards.

World War I, World War II, Korea.

It is not 1953, it is 2025.

In a war with China, it matters not if we have 1 division or 100 divisions. The United States Army will not be engaging with China if we went to war with them over Taiwan. A war with China will be fought primarily with the Navy and to a smaller extent the Air Force and with missiles of all types. It may be fought with nuclear weapons. It will not be fought with the Army.

First of all, there is no way to get the Army to China alive. And China's Army is not coming here and even if it tried, it too would not arrive alive. China built up its Army with Russia, India and southeast Asia in mind, not the United States.

Even the Marines will be irrelevant, as China's robust area denial technology would prevent the Navy from getting in close enough to land them.

The USS Jimmy Carter might be able to get SEALS in, but that would be about it for ground forces.

The Army matters for piddling around in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Time has passed it by for major wars. 8 divisions would do just fine.

Yes, I do know the Army is training for jungle warfare along China's southeast Asia border, but that pretty much would be no more than a nuisance to China and if early training results are any indication, it won't go over too well for the United States.

And again, that is even if the United States could get troops to southeast Asia at all without being taken out by various Chinese assets.

The United States should spending its limited money on the our nuclear deterrent submarine force, our attack submarine force and various conventional missiles and weaponry aimed at crippling or destroying the Chinese invasion fleet on its way from mainland China to Taiwan.

We are far better off transferring money from the Army to the Navy and other assets.

Submarines are very useful. But once they fire torpedoes and missiles, they aren’t stealthy anymore. They are now totally defensive running and trying to hide. The seas around Taiwan wouldn’t allow many Submarines to be there without risking a friendly fire incident.

Missiles are amazing things. And there are a finite number that can be carried or fired. Resupply may not come in time. Even if it does, it is likely some ships and planes would make it to Taiwan allowing the Chinese Army to get a foothold. This is where the Army comes in.

The first Unit sent would probably be the 82nd Airborne. They would reinforce defenses and dig in to repel the enemy attack. Marines would arrive to do the same.

They don’t have to invade mainland China to win. They have to destroy the invading force.

Combined Arms Strategy calls for controlling the Air, Land, and Sea. You need troops on the ground for that land part. Forward observers to call for Artillery and Air Strikes on enemy targets. Troops to pin down the enemy troops so they can be destroyed by air and Artillery.

I don’t think we have enough planes to stop any invasion attempt just with air. I know we don’t have enough ships. Troops on the defense means that the enemy needs to get a lot more through. The old rule of thumb was a three to one advantage against a prepared defense. Even then you would likely suffer fifty percent casualties.

If the Air Force and Navy are hammering them, the units that do make land will be a hodge podge, instead of intact units. That will help the defenders with communications and command difficulties on the part of the attackers.
 
I want to address the bolded issue.

You are thinking backwards.

No, you are thinking like warfare is some video game or movie.

No need for the Army if China invades Taiwan, or the Marines? It will all be solved with submarines and SEAL teams?

Your entire post really makes no sense. especially the final part about submarines.

Are you aware of what a "nuclear deterrent force" is? It is a weapon system that you hope you absolutely never have to use. Because the moment it needs to be used, the entire world is done because MAD no longer worked

And really? "missiles and weaponry aimed at crippling or destroying the Chinese invasion fleet on its way"? So what, you want to permanently base dozens of submarines permanently around Taiwan? You are aware that such an invasion fleet can arrive at Taiwan from China in hours, right? Oh, and do not give me the nonsense about intelligence knowing in advance. You know we have seen all that in the past, right?

A key part of War Plan Orange before WWII was exactly that kind of reactionary thinking. We sit back and wait for the other side to conduct their attack, then we respond. However, many people forget that the other guys have their own plans. Case in point, the US knew for a fact that the Philippines were a key target of Japan. That is why they were working hard to not only beef up the forces there, they moved the Pacific Fleet over 2,500 miles closer to there to shorten the response time when it was attacked.

That was the entire expectation of the US response. Japan attacks the Philippines, the US sorties out the Pacific Fleet and engages them somewhere off the Philippines. However, oops! The same day Japan started attacking the islands, they also attacked our fleet in Hawaii. And even without that attack, the US would have still lost the Philippines because by the time they had gotten there, Japan had already gained enough of the islands to host a significant air presence. So even if Pearl Harbor had never happened, we still would have lost our fleet trying to secure the Philippines. Except then the death tolls would have been much higher, and we could not have brought back any ships sunk.

And here you are, literally proposing the exact same tactic that failed over 80 years ago, apparently.

And the Army would have no job in such an invasion? Who in the hell do you think operates the Air Defenses for the US? Because they will be mobilizing and deploying all the THAAD and PATRIOT Batteries they can to Taiwan if that was to happen. That means the US Army. And the Marines would very much be involved even if for defensive purposes, as one of their core missions is securing Naval bases.
 
The first Unit sent would probably be the 82nd Airborne. They would reinforce defenses and dig in to repel the enemy attack. Marines would arrive to do the same.

Actually, it would likely be a combination of the two.

First, Marines from whatever amphibious forces are operating in the theater. As well as from Okinawa, which is the home of the 3rd Marine Division. And Okinawa is significantly closer to Taiwan than the 82nd Airborne. And a lot of the early forces will likely be from the 11th Air Defense Artillery Brigade out of Fort Bliss. That is because no matter what, ADA will be highly involved in defending such an attack. And the 11th is trained in loading their equipment onto aircraft for rapid deployment anywhere on the planet.

The 82nd will be sent, but not anywhere near the "First Unit". There are a hell of a lot of other units a hell of a lot closer that would be sent first. Like at least a Regiment of the 1st Marine Division out of Camp Pendleton. At all times there is a Regiment of forces there prepared to load onto aircraft and leave with 6 hours notice. As in, all of their equipment is already palatized so it can literally be thrown onto trucks and taken to the airport with the Marines and put immediately onto airplanes. Yes, been there - done that, it sucks. Almost mandatory formations multiple times a day just in case the "balloon goes up" somewhere in the world and we have to be sent to respond.

And yes, it can go that fast. That is how I arrived at one of the multiple "Mandatory formations" in 1989. Arrived at the formation, they immediately had me turn in my car keys and marched us to the Armory to draw weapons. Then grab our staged gear, and get on a bus to Pope Air Force Base. Where we were issued ammo and MREs, and then sat on the runway for 12 hours as the Air Force was warming up the transports we were expecting to take to Haiti. However, at almost the last minute they decided not to send us as the attempted coup failed. So we turned in the ammo, got back on the busses, and returned to Camp Lejeune.

And the funny thing is, almost 20 years later I met somebody else that remembers that operation. At the time I was sitting on the tarmac, he was part of the ground crew for a C-130. And he remembered that night as I did, frantically working to ensure everything about his plane was fully operational before it and us Marines got sent to Haiti. And we were laughing about that decades later as we were both by then in the Army in the New Mexico desert.
 
Actually, it would likely be a combination of the two.

First, Marines from whatever amphibious forces are operating in the theater. As well as from Okinawa, which is the home of the 3rd Marine Division. And Okinawa is significantly closer to Taiwan than the 82nd Airborne. And a lot of the early forces will likely be from the 11th Air Defense Artillery Brigade out of Fort Bliss. That is because no matter what, ADA will be highly involved in defending such an attack. And the 11th is trained in loading their equipment onto aircraft for rapid deployment anywhere on the planet.

The 82nd will be sent, but not anywhere near the "First Unit". There are a hell of a lot of other units a hell of a lot closer that would be sent first. Like at least a Regiment of the 1st Marine Division out of Camp Pendleton. At all times there is a Regiment of forces there prepared to load onto aircraft and leave with 6 hours notice. As in, all of their equipment is already palatized so it can literally be thrown onto trucks and taken to the airport with the Marines and put immediately onto airplanes. Yes, been there - done that, it sucks. Almost mandatory formations multiple times a day just in case the "balloon goes up" somewhere in the world and we have to be sent to respond.

And yes, it can go that fast. That is how I arrived at one of the multiple "Mandatory formations" in 1989. Arrived at the formation, they immediately had me turn in my car keys and marched us to the Armory to draw weapons. Then grab our staged gear, and get on a bus to Pope Air Force Base. Where we were issued ammo and MREs, and then sat on the runway for 12 hours as the Air Force was warming up the transports we were expecting to take to Haiti. However, at almost the last minute they decided not to send us as the attempted coup failed. So we turned in the ammo, got back on the busses, and returned to Camp Lejeune.

And the funny thing is, almost 20 years later I met somebody else that remembers that operation. At the time I was sitting on the tarmac, he was part of the ground crew for a C-130. And he remembered that night as I did, frantically working to ensure everything about his plane was fully operational before it and us Marines got sent to Haiti. And we were laughing about that decades later as we were both by then in the Army in the New Mexico desert.

Memorial Day 1989 I reported in to the Replacement Unit for the 82nd Airborne as a lowly E-2 who might have been able to find his Ass if you gave him a stick and a mirror.

A year later I was the squad driver for my squad of Engineers. We had deployed to Fort Chaffee in Arkansas for a big Exeval when Iraq invaded Kuwait. We had taken two days to load all the trucks on trains. We took two days to unload the trains when we got there. I was part of the advanced party as the driver.

When a day later they ordered us back to Bragg soonest. We cleaned the vehicles and loaded them on the trains in one day. I was doing twenty miles an hour down that Train chasing the vehicle in front of me.

We were alerted and sent to the PHA frequently. It wasn’t until we got to the Medical Station and they used magic markers instead of needles to give us shots that we would know if this was real or another training exercise.

So I’m familiar with the process. When sent to Saudi I was told to load the trailer down with munitions. Everything we might need. It took four hours to fill out the red tags for the hazardous cargo for the Loadmaster. I had the trailer springs flat, maximum load weight, with everything I could get my E-3 hands on. My Sergeant was new and kept asking if we really needed whatever I was grabbing.

My answer was always the same. The Squad Leader said get everything. I’m getting everything.

Wrapping it all in cardboard and paper took another five hours. Then waiting until a C-5 was available to take me and the literal ton of munitions on board.

When we linked up in Saudi the new Sergeant said I’d gone overboard. My Squad Leader looked at the trailer and the list and assured the new Sergeant I had done just what I was supposed to do.

We were about the last of the 82nd to deploy.
 
Absolutely.

The Oklahoma Supreme Court or District Federal Court will trash the law if it were to pass, so I don't think our opinions will be needed.
So, why did you bother responding to begin with?

Seems to me you wasted a lot of time dancing around an issue you don’t deem worthy of an opinion when all you had to do was keep your mouth shut and respond to something you actually do have an opinion on.
 
Memorial Day 1989 I reported in to the Replacement Unit for the 82nd Airborne as a lowly E-2 who might have been able to find his Ass if you gave him a stick and a mirror.

But I am looking at it largely geographically. The Marines have two divisions significantly closer than the Army does. Okinawa is less than 500 miles from Taiwan. California is 6,700 miles from Taiwan. Bragg is over 8,000 miles away.

Plus you are going to have at least a brigade sized MEU operating somewhere out in that area already.

Now I have no doubt that the bulk of the first units is going to be the 82nd and the Army. That is simply how it often is, but the Marines are normally there first because of many reasons primarily based upon location.

The first units to arrive will be from the 3rd Marine Division on Okinawa. Then either the 1st Division from Pendleton, or whatever MEU is operating in the area (depending on where the MEU is at the time because its always moving). But the Marines at the start will be sending at most only Regiments, for various reasons (most notably that they do not actually have sufficient organic transport in their Divisions). There, when it comes to "bulk transport" the Army does have the advantage. Because unlike the Corps, they have units of the Air Force that are dedicated to supporting them. The Marines, they gotta wait for the Air Force to support them most times.

I think the only exception to that rule is the 3rd Marine Division. They have the resources at Kadena almost entirely to themselves, which includes the 733rd Air Mobility Squadron. And with no significant Army presence on the island, that means that entire airlift unit is almost entirely at the beck and call of the Corps if something like that happened.

One advantage of serving a decade in the Corps and 15 years in the Army, it helped me see how each of them operates.
 
Weapons are great but one occupies using troops.

There are a lot of idiots that believe that though.

We have been hearing since WWII that infantry was no longer needed, as the Air Force could destroy any enemy on their own. And every decade or so some new "magic weapon" will make Infantry obsolete.

Now it is mostly drones and robots. Well, the moment a drone can secure a hell I will top my hat to them. But right now, those magical drones are really no different than a Fighter of previous wars or a Bomber of WWII. They have their mission, but they have never "won wars".
 
Republicans have a plan. Those words will cheer the hearts of the MAGA fanboys. It is a plan to deal with low enlistment numbers for the Military. Hearts just fluttered in the fanboys.

The Governor of Oklahoma has decided his education system will focus on a plan called Classroom to Careers. His plan? To graduate High School you must be accepted into College. If you can’t afford College, no worries you can also go to a Trade School. What if you can’t afford that? You have a third option. Aren’t options grand? You can join the Military.


Yep. You would have to do one of those three things to graduate High School.

Governor Kevin Stitt of Oklahoma unveiled his proposals on Friday the 27th of December. That is S T I T T folks. There is no H in his name.

I wonder if the Department of Education will adopt this nationally. Oh wait. They’re getting rid of that department. Well. They might keep it around for this.

Does this idiocy give anyone a headache besides me?


Thank GOD for a free country!
 
But I am looking at it largely geographically. The Marines have two divisions significantly closer than the Army does. Okinawa is less than 500 miles from Taiwan. California is 6,700 miles from Taiwan. Bragg is over 8,000 miles away.

The US Army have had men in an actual combat zone during the USA's longest ever war that recently concluded

US Army forces are stationed in places close to potential adversaries in places like South Korea. Plus:

Host nation: Bulgaria
Framework nation: Italy
Contributing nations: Albania, Croatia, Greece, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Türkiye and the United States

Host nation: Hungary
Framework nation: Hungary
Contributing nations: Croatia, Italy, Türkiye and the United States

Host nation: Poland
Framework nation: United States
Contributing nations: Croatia, Romania and the United Kingdom

 
I wonder if a whizz kid could get an exception if he/she got straight A's, and already had tax paying profitable business that he/she had created as a teen?

And then perhaps, employed the governor's child?

Or what if they already had a hugely profitable career going as a musician or in sports, possibly through endorsements in Olympic competition, and donated to the governor's campaign...

Or what if it was something lucrative but not spectacular. Perhaps the high school student hoping to receive a diploma had already taken a job in construction and was highly skilled as a craftsman or crafts woman. Maybe they were a good painter or with tile work.
Or how about a poor black kid who can run the 100 in 8.5 seconds?

He could use his spare coin to fund the high school for ten years!
 
But I am looking at it largely geographically. The Marines have two divisions significantly closer than the Army does. Okinawa is less than 500 miles from Taiwan. California is 6,700 miles from Taiwan. Bragg is over 8,000 miles away.

Plus you are going to have at least a brigade sized MEU operating somewhere out in that area already.

Now I have no doubt that the bulk of the first units is going to be the 82nd and the Army. That is simply how it often is, but the Marines are normally there first because of many reasons primarily based upon location.

The first units to arrive will be from the 3rd Marine Division on Okinawa. Then either the 1st Division from Pendleton, or whatever MEU is operating in the area (depending on where the MEU is at the time because its always moving). But the Marines at the start will be sending at most only Regiments, for various reasons (most notably that they do not actually have sufficient organic transport in their Divisions). There, when it comes to "bulk transport" the Army does have the advantage. Because unlike the Corps, they have units of the Air Force that are dedicated to supporting them. The Marines, they gotta wait for the Air Force to support them most times.

I think the only exception to that rule is the 3rd Marine Division. They have the resources at Kadena almost entirely to themselves, which includes the 733rd Air Mobility Squadron. And with no significant Army presence on the island, that means that entire airlift unit is almost entirely at the beck and call of the Corps if something like that happened.

One advantage of serving a decade in the Corps and 15 years in the Army, it helped me see how each of them operates.

I’m a Soldier who will say this. The Marines have never had an objective they failed to take. No matter the cost.

I have great respect for the Marines. The comment I was originally replying to was how we don’t need an Army. It was useless in this fight. To win anything you need grunts on the ground. The Marines, as impressive as they are, just don’t have as many as the Army.

I told my history so you would know that rapid deployment even back when I was serving was normal. I got out after nine years. Cumulative injuries meant I couldn’t be promoted again since a PT Test was impossible. My back and knees were shot. I got out and went Skilled Labor in the Civilian World.

Of course, the units sent will depend a lot on how much warning we get. The Military does not just go you. Get over there. They send some of everything. Air Defense as you pointed out. I’d bet any amount of money there is a plan already drawn up in a drawer just waiting to be activated. You know both services. This won’t be a pull it out of your Ass deployment. It will be one they’ve been planning for decades.

The ships at Diego Garcia with a Brigade of Armor will be sailing thataway. The Army tends to throw the Kitchen Sink into the mix. Anything and everything that might help will be headed that way as soon as the orders are given.

Until you have seen the branches working together. Air, Artillery, and Ground. Until you have seen the effects, it is easy to say that you need more of this, or that. When you have seen aircraft working with forward observers. Artillery adjusted by a guy with a radio to hit the target. It is easy to say that grunts are not needed.

Grunts are always needed.
 
I’m a Soldier who will say this. The Marines have never had an objective they failed to take. No matter the cost.

I have great respect for the Marines. The comment I was originally replying to was how we don’t need an Army. It was useless in this fight. To win anything you need grunts on the ground. The Marines, as impressive as they are, just don’t have as many as the Army.

I told my history so you would know that rapid deployment even back when I was serving was normal. I got out after nine years. Cumulative injuries meant I couldn’t be promoted again since a PT Test was impossible. My back and knees were shot. I got out and went Skilled Labor in the Civilian World.

Of course, the units sent will depend a lot on how much warning we get. The Military does not just go you. Get over there. They send some of everything. Air Defense as you pointed out. I’d bet any amount of money there is a plan already drawn up in a drawer just waiting to be activated. You know both services. This won’t be a pull it out of your Ass deployment. It will be one they’ve been planning for decades.

The ships at Diego Garcia with a Brigade of Armor will be sailing thataway. The Army tends to throw the Kitchen Sink into the mix. Anything and everything that might help will be headed that way as soon as the orders are given.

Until you have seen the branches working together. Air, Artillery, and Ground. Until you have seen the effects, it is easy to say that you need more of this, or that. When you have seen aircraft working with forward observers. Artillery adjusted by a guy with a radio to hit the target. It is easy to say that grunts are not needed.

Grunts are always needed.

The infantry wins wars, the rest just helps.
 
I have great respect for the Marines. The comment I was originally replying to was how we don’t need an Army. It was useless in this fight. To win anything you need grunts on the ground. The Marines, as impressive as they are, just don’t have as many as the Army.

And that ultimately is all mission related.

Yes, the Marines have never been big. During the Cold War, the Army had more freaking Divisions in West Germany than all of the Marine Corps combined (including reserves). The Corps has always been small, and their doctrine evolved to function in that way. Where as the most "basic" operating organization for the Army is a Brigade, for the Corps it is centered around Battalions. The Army has entire Armored Divisions and Artillery Regiments. Meanwhile at most, the Marines had Tank and Artillery Battalions. Generally one each for each of the Divisions.

But the Marines never had the mission to "take and hold" large areas of land, that was simply never their mission. To put it into terms of other forces, they are more akin to "Shock Troops" or "Storm Troopers". Ideal for short and hard assaults, or for defending specific points against overwhelming odds. You can even see this clearly in WWII.

There were almost no Marines in Africa or Europe, not their kind of fight (only a handful were present as advisors or observers). The long slow slog from the English Channel to Berlin was simply not the kind of war that Marines are suited for, either by doctrine, equipment, or manpower. However, they are ideal for the hard and brutal task of taking strongly defended islands away from an entrenched enemy, or trying to hold those enemies off from their own strongly defended island. That is why some of the "legends" of the Corps are battles like Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Wake, and Khe Sanh. Those are the kinds of battles the Corps is ideally suited for.

And this can even be seen in the name, "Corps". You probably know this, but many likely do not as they have no idea how military organizations are named. The smallest is a Squad, then multiple squads make up a Platoon. Multiple Platoons make up a Company, and multiple companies a Battalion. Then multiple battalions make a Regiment, and multiple regiments make up a Division. But after that, multiple divisions make up a Corps. Think of "I Corps" in the Korean War, or "II Corps" in Vietnam. And multiple corps make up an Army. So during WWII when the Marines were operating in the Pacific, they were actually operating as a Corps and generally throwing in one Division into a battle, with a second in reserve and the third recovering from the last battle. Then rotating their Divisions for the next battle, with the one devastated in the last assault sent most times to Australia for recovery and new men as the last Reserve Division takes the point in the next assault. Meanwhile, in Europe the US Army was literally acting as an "Army". Where they would be rotated off "the line", but never left the theater until it was done Which is why there were three "General of the Army" in Europe, but only one in the Pacific.

Especially in a more modern battlespace, where they have equipment that the Army just does not have. Do not get me wrong, for an offensive battle I would no question want the 82nd at my side, they are going to kick ass and take names to leave on grave markers across a wide swath of countryside. But for a defensive operation on a distant island far from stable logistics chain, I am less confident. Because they are going to be dependent upon an unbroken air logistical chain that will be primarily operating from airports. Take out the airports (via cratering or air interdiction), and that logistical chain is going to be in trouble.

This is the advantage of "amphibious" in their doctrine, as the Marine logistical chain can come from ships. Either via landing craft, helicopters or OV-22s. But they are also generally supporting Battalion sized forces, not Regimental and Division sized forces.
 
*continued*

But of a sidebar, but I can suggest two "Documentaries" that show the differences in WWII. "Band of Brothers" of course, is a great snapshot of WWII in Europe. But "The Pacific" is largely the same thing in the Pacific Theater. Floating around on the ships for a month, or sitting around in Australia. Then getting on ships, and being dumped on the shores of an island for weeks to months of brutal combat. Then once secured going back to Australia and sitting again until the next time they had to repeat it. Most times not in battle, but the times they were it was closer to D-Day or The Bulge every day during those battles. Where as most battles the Army faced were nowhere near that intense. Lots of just sitting around waiting for something to happen, some lower intensity battles between them. Then a push or holding off a push by the other side, then sitting around again as your logistical train catches up.

Honestly, I expect an operation at Taiwan to be mostly akin to Guadalcanal, Philippines, or Okinawa. Where the Marines make up the bulk of the "Initial Landing Forces", then the Army is brought in to vastly augment them once the beachheads and airports are secured. That is traditionally how the Army and Marines have worked together, from WWII to Vietnam. The Marines excel in those kinds of operations, by doctrine and forces. But the Army excels if you want to overwhelm the enemy by sheer manpower. Neither is better than the other, the simply do different things in different ways.

And yes, on Taiwan an "Army" would be needed. Because China is not taking over the island without "boots on the ground". No more than the Philippines were taken over by either the US or Japan without Boots on the Ground. China can lob all the missiles they want at Taiwan, but to take the island they ultimately will need to send an invasion force. And there need to be forces on the ground to deter or eliminate that when it happens. And simply by looking at the dozens of battles in the Pacific in WWII, that was always the end game. Always. Not one single island ever surrendered before overwhelming forces were on the island and had almost completely eliminated the defending forces. Not counting the Philippines, where in 1942 they were completely cut off and had no hope for resupply for the over 100,000 trapped there.

And ironically, if the forces on the Philippines were smaller they likely could have held out longer. One of the interesting cases where larger numbers was a detriment, there were simply too many forces to support locally and they were dependent upon outside supplies. Those that escaped the surrender operated successfully as guerrillas throughout the war, and were very effective in doing so. Generally in Company or Battalion sized units at most, so more easily able to support themselves off the environment than the larger units ever could.
 
So, why did you bother responding to begin with?

Seems to me you wasted a lot of time dancing around an issue you don’t deem worthy of an opinion when all you had to do was keep your mouth shut and respond to something you actually do have an opinion on.

I responded with a opinion on the validity of the Governors plan.



Tough shit if you didn't like it.
 
The best way to ruin the US armed forces is to restart conscription.
Forcing a bunch of people into the armed forces who actively don't want to be there will destroy moral and lower the overall combat power.

Profesional armies are always better than conscript armies.
 
It's good that so many veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan and who vote overwhelmingly Republican are gone from active service for a good number of years now.

The new problem with these Republican voters though is that they've given us Trump and His Wackjobs, Hegseth, Gaetz, Gabbard-Putin and Kash Patel among others to destroy US defenses, intelligence, counter terrorism and USA national security as a whole.

Yep, the veterans who vote Republican overwhelmingly time and again. The post 9/11 bunch, or at least so many of 'em. No longer in active duty during this critical time of MAGA disloyalty.
Tangmobable as far as the eye can see
 
I have no problem to exposing kids to the trades. And any other options.

I'm just saying most kids have no idea what they want to do in 8th grade and they shouldn't be pigeonholed or tracked at that age, they should have all of their options kept open.
This is somewhat how its done in Europe, particularly Germany.
 
Tangmobable as far as the eye can see
Tripe.

Echos of Trump personalizing everything. And as we know this is because Trump doesn't know anything.

Every post is absent any discussion and all content no matter. It's always about the poster.
 
Tripe.

Echos of Trump personalizing everything. And as we know this is because Trump doesn't know anything.

Every post is absent any discussion and all content no matter. It's always about the poster.

Your insults directed at veterans is noted.

Not something a real veteran would do.
 
The best way to ruin the US armed forces is to restart conscription.
Forcing a bunch of people into the armed forces who actively don't want to be there will destroy moral and lower the overall combat power.

Profesional armies are always better than conscript armies.

Indeed
These days a member of the military needs to be highly motivated and well trained

Conscripts are only useful as cannon fodder.
 

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