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Republican Draft Dodgers / Democrats Who Served

26 X World Champs

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Just received this interesting email from one of my political action groups, a liberal one at that so consider the source if you're unable to believe what you're about to read. Of course, the name listed below are easily verified, in the public domain, and if you can provide proof of mistakes, go for it! :gunsmilie :ind: :gunner: :memorial_

Check the list below:Remember the Draft
Dodgers on this list below when you vote in 2006, and
then vote your conscience.

---------------------------------------

REPUBLICANS: -- These are the guys sending people to
war:

* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Five deferments, the
last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to
teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man
who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.

* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight
instructor; never left the U. S. A.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year
National Guard; Record shows he refiused overseas
duty.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting
was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although
continued playing in NFL for 8 years.

* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National
Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.

* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a
non-combat role making movies.
------------------------------------------------
DEMOCRATS:
* John Murtha, Marine Colonel: the Bronze Star with
Combat "V", two Purple Hearts and the Vietnamese Cross
of Gallantry and the Navy Distiguished Service medal.
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor,
Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.

* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze
Star with Combat V, 2 Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze
Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &
Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt. 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army
Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star
and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam,
DFCs, Bronze
Stars, and Sol dier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart,
Silver Star and
Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne,
Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in
Vietnam; Bronze
Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments.
Entered draft but received #311.

* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal
with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII.
Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.


Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal
cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things
that don't shoot back.)
* John Wayne: did not serve.

What about Pat Robertson? And the other patriotic
preachers?
 

RightinNYC

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26 X World Champs said:
Just received this interesting email from one of my political action groups, a liberal one at that so consider the source if you're unable to believe what you're about to read. Of course, the name listed below are easily verified, in the public domain, and if you can provide proof of mistakes, go for it! :gunsmilie :ind: :gunner: :memorial_
I'm willing to bet, actually, no, I'm positive that if one were to compile a list of all of the members of Clinton's cabinet and other prominent non serving democrats that it would be as long as the list of non serving republicans.

Much in the same way that one could find a list of 50 republicans who DID serve.

And as to the pundits/religious leader section...I wonder if Al Franken, Maureen Dowd, Keith Olbermann, Al Sharpton, or Justices Stevens or Souter served? Take a guess.
 

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26 X World Champs said:
Just received this interesting email from one of my political action groups, a liberal one at that so consider the source if you're unable to believe what you're about to read. Of course, the name listed below are easily verified, in the public domain, and if you can provide proof of mistakes, go for it!
Yeah, and..........

If this is another thread dedicated to the principle of "Moral Authority", then I'm already getting drowsy. If this is just to criticise the GOP, then I couldn't care less.

You know who else is a Republican-though not a politician-John Keegan. The most authoritative author on military history today.
EDIT: I forgot to add that he has never fought in a war.
You know who's a Democrat who flew scores of combat missions in WWII, George McGovern.

I don't think there is sane individual out there who would choose the latter over the former to manage a war.
 
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cnredd

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curt said:
Yeah, and..........

If this is another thread dedicated to the principle of "Moral Authority", then I'm already getting drowsy. If this is just to criticise the GOP, then I couldn't care less.

You know who else is a Republican-though not a politician-John Keegan. The most authoritative author on military history today.
You know who's a Democrat who flew scores of combat missions in WWII, George McGovern.

I don't think there is sane individual out there who would choose the latter over the former to manage a war.
Don't worry about it...

This is what's expected from people who can't debate, so they resort to this...

Let the kids play in the kiddie pool and the adults will continue to discuss the forum topics with some genuine thought...
 
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Presidents who were in the military but who saw no action
James Madison
James Polk
Millard Fillmore
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan - kept out of combat due to bad eyesight
George W. Bush

Presidents with no military experience
John Adams
Thomas Jefferson
John Quincy Adams
Martin Van Buren
Grover Cleveland
William Taft
Woodrow Wilson
Warren Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Herbert Hoover
Franklin Roosevelt
Bill Clinton
 

26 X World Champs

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cnredd said:
Don't worry about it...

This is what's expected from people who can't debate, so they resort to this.
:rofl Maybe if you keep writing this over and over you'll get suspended? Remember when you overstepped your grounds as a moderator and told me to stop writing the words "frickin genius"?

Your new catch phrase is "who can't debate."

Does it make you feel better to attack me? You do it a lot. I thought Mods were not supposed to bait people? Hey, maybe that will be my new catch phrase?
 

aps

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RightatNYU said:
I'm willing to bet, actually, no, I'm positive that if one were to compile a list of all of the members of Clinton's cabinet and other prominent non serving democrats that it would be as long as the list of non serving republicans.
So what? Those who served under Clinton did not send them into war in Iraq.

Much in the same way that one could find a list of 50 republicans who DID serve.
Let's see the list.

And as to the pundits/religious leader section...I wonder if Al Franken, Maureen Dowd, Keith Olbermann, Al Sharpton, or Justices Stevens or Souter served? Take a guess.
Who cares? At least they aren't saying that those who support the war are unpatriotic and assisting our enemy. That's the difference between the republican pundits and the democratic pundits.
 

RightinNYC

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aps said:
So what? Those who served under Clinton did not send them into war in Iraq.
Does that make FDR a coward?

Let's see the list.
Maybe someone else can find one. I frankly don't have the time nor desire to spend an hour or two researching a list that doesn't mean a damn thing.

Who cares? At least they aren't saying that those who support the war are unpatriotic and assisting our enemy. That's the difference between the republican pundits and the democratic pundits.
At least the one's on the right ARENT assisting our enemy...
 
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cnredd said:
Don't worry about it...

This is what's expected from people who can't debate, so they resort to this...

Let the kids play in the kiddie pool and the adults will continue to discuss the forum topics with some genuine thought...
Exactly. This "interesting e-mail" has been circulated for several years now. Their idea of debate, I guess.
 

aps

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RightatNYU said:
Does that make FDR a coward?
Did FDR send troops into Iraq? Yeah, I didn't think so. Notice that I limited it to this war.


Maybe someone else can find one. I frankly don't have the time nor desire to spend an hour or two researching a list that doesn't mean a damn thing.
LOL So you say, "Much in the same way that one could find a list of 50 republicans," but then state that the list doesn't mean a damn thing. Do you think you're contradicting yourself? It's important enough for you to say that there is a similar list. Hmmmmmmm


At least the one's on the right ARENT assisting our enemy...
Please tell me how the ones on the left are assisting our enemy. It's not enough to say, "Because they are telling the terrorists that we give up." Tell me how wanting our troops to come home assists the terrorists.

Thank you.
 

cnredd

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26 X World Champs said:
:rofl Maybe if you keep writing this over and over you'll get suspended? Remember when you overstepped your grounds as a moderator and told me to stop writing the words "frickin genius"?
Overstepped?...You starting to believe your own words?...Revionist history at its finest...

Take a gander at another Mod's words...

In response to this and to every one else who feels that this should have been conducted through PMs:

Sometimes we do issue warnings through PM. Sometimes we don't. In instances like this, cnredd felt, and the moderating team as well, that the interests of the forum were best served if we made it public. If it had just been an isolated event, obviously "the yankees suck" or "your a freakin genius" wouldn't have been enough to constitute a warning of any type. The fact that it was repeated to the point of insanity through many threads detracts from the quality of the thread. Whether you, champs, or navy were insulted is irrelevant. It is the childish behavior that is bringing down the quality of debatepolitics that will not be allowed. And, as such, it needed to be made public, so hopefully all other people annoyed at the middle school tactics used by you two will see that this site will not allow it.


http://debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=124693&postcount=90

You got some documentation that says otherwise?

Yeah...really "overstepped"...:roll:

26 X World Champs said:
Your new catch phrase is "who can't debate."
When applicable...

26 X World Champs said:
Does it make you feel better to attack me? You do it a lot. I thought Mods were not supposed to bait people? Hey, maybe that will be my new catch phrase?
Becoming a Moderator does not restrict the abilities to back & forth with the forum members...

As a forum member, I have proven on more than one occasion that you have lied, misled, and haven't live up to the standards you've imposed on other members when providing sources...

When I became a Moderator, I didn't "lose" the capability to show that...

Your "wishing" to let it drop won't happen...You still believe it's directed at you because you're a Liberal...untrue...It's directed at someone who continually attacks other members by insulting their posts and implying personal attacks...

Here's three JUST from yesterday...

26 X World Champs said:
I call you a TRAITOR!...These words are written like a sick motherfuc%er would write them, for it shows a complete lack of everything that is good, and only proves how evil someone really is.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=146915&postcount=154

26 X World Champs said:
See, it's incredibly stupid words like this, which you employ in too many posts, IMHO, that make debating with you impossible. No facts, just bluster, no truths, just made up $hit.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=146870&postcount=72

26 X World Champs said:
Your post is pathetic! Your words are stupid! Your premise is retarded!
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=146904&postcount=153

That is incrediblt derogatory to the forum members, and although every member can be accused of doing the same at one point or another, depending on their opinion, there is NO ONE on the forum that uses this tactic as their modus operandi like you do...

I can come up with 50...easily...yes, if needed...I will publicly shown them...

Do you dare me to?....And if I do, will you admit that I know what I speak of?

You call it "baiting"...I call it "showing the forum members what you're really up to"...

There are people on this site more Liberal than you, yet they show a little more respect to the other members than you ever will...

That's why it gets pointed out...
 
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cnredd said:
Overstepped?...You starting to believe your own words?...Revionist history at its finest...

Take a gander at another Mod's words...

In response to this and to every one else who feels that this should have been conducted through PMs:

Sometimes we do issue warnings through PM. Sometimes we don't. In instances like this, cnredd felt, and the moderating team as well, that the interests of the forum were best served if we made it public. If it had just been an isolated event, obviously "the yankees suck" or "your a freakin genius" wouldn't have been enough to constitute a warning of any type. The fact that it was repeated to the point of insanity through many threads detracts from the quality of the thread. Whether you, champs, or navy were insulted is irrelevant. It is the childish behavior that is bringing down the quality of debatepolitics that will not be allowed. And, as such, it needed to be made public, so hopefully all other people annoyed at the middle school tactics used by you two will see that this site will not allow it.


http://debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=124693&postcount=90

You got some documentation that says otherwise?

Yeah...really "overstepped"...:roll:

When applicable...

Becoming a Moderator does not restrict the abilities to back & forth with the forum members...

As a forum member, I have proven on more than one occasion that you have lied, misled, and haven't live up to the standards you've imposed on other members when providing sources...

When I became a Moderator, I didn't "lose" the capability to show that...

Your "wishing" to let it drop won't happen...You still believe it's directed at you because you're a Liberal...untrue...It's directed at someone who continually attacks other members by insulting their posts and implying personal attacks...

Here's three JUST from yesterday...



http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=146915&postcount=154



http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=146870&postcount=72



http://www.debatepolitics.com/showpost.php?p=146904&postcount=153

That is incrediblt derogatory to the forum members, and although every member can be accused of doing the same at one point or another, depending on their opinion, there is NO ONE on the forum that uses this tactic as their modus operandi like you do...

I can come up with 50...easily...yes, if needed...I will publicly shown them...

Do you dare me to?....And if I do, will you admit that I know what I speak of?

You call it "baiting"...I call it "showing the forum members what you're really up to"...

There are people on this site more Liberal than you, yet they show a little more respect to the other members than you ever will...

That's why it gets pointed out...
excellent post, redd. well done. It's time Mr. World Champ got a helping of his own tactics.
 
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aps said:
So what? Those who served under Clinton did not send them into war in Iraq.

so war anyplace else in the world is ok just as long it's not in Iraq? What's so special about Iraq? If people like you were around during WW2 you'de be saying things like: "FDR's a coward who dodged the draft in WW1, we're abusing Japanese prisoners, and this isn't Germany's fault it's that damn Versaiss treaty, Hitlers justified it's our fault we need to understand why the nazis hate us FDR lied troops died."

Let's see the list.



Who cares? At least they aren't saying that those who support the war are unpatriotic and assisting our enemy. That's the difference between the republican pundits and the democratic pundits.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
 

aps

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .so war anyplace else in the world is ok just as long it's not in Iraq? What's so special about Iraq? If people like you were around during WW2 you'de be saying things like: "FDR's a coward who dodged the draft in WW1, we're abusing Japanese prisoners, and this isn't Germany's fault it's that damn Versaiss treaty, Hitlers justified it's our fault we need to understand why the nazis hate us FDR lied troops died."
Trajan, I was not a history major, nor did I like history, so my understanding of WW2 is not very good. That is why I limited my commentary to this war.
 

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This is what FactCheck.org says about Bush's military service and Kerry's military record:

The records show that National Guard officials credited Bush with enough points to meet minimum requirements for the 12-month period ending May 26, 1973, the period of the original alleged "gap" in his records. An Air Force "Reserve Personnel Record Card" shows Bush received a total of 9 points for active duty training, 31 points for inactive duty training, and 15 points awarded for his membership in the reserves. The points total 56, exceeding the 50-point requirement for satisfactory service during the period, though barely.

None of those in the attack ad by the Swift Boat group actually served on Kerry's boat. And their statements are contrary to the accounts of Kerry and those who served under him.
 
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aps said:
Trajan, I was not a history major, nor did I like history, so my understanding of WW2 is not very good. That is why I limited my commentary to this war.
This expains a great deal. One without the proper understanding of our nations history may very well be limited in scope with regard to commenting on how and why we got to where we are.
 

aps

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KCConservative said:
This expains a great deal. One without the proper understanding of our nations history may very well be limited in scope with regard to commenting on how and why we got to where we are.
Hey, I have no problems with people attacking my ability to recall history. I was a math and science chick in high school and college....

KC, I love it when you single me out. Muah.

P.S. I won't misrepresent my own intelligence. ;)
 
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Kelzie

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aps said:
Hey, I have no problems with people attacking my ability to recall history. I was a math and science chick in high school and college....

KC, I love it when you single me out. Muah.

P.S. I won't misrepresent my own intelligence. ;)
He seems to do that a lot aps. I think you've made a friend. ;)
 

aps

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Kelzie said:
He seems to do that a lot aps. I think you've made a friend. ;)
*bats eyelashes* I do like the fact that he challenges me.

How are you, Kelzie?
 

aps

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KCConservative said:
That's an excellent idea.
LOL See, KC? This is me being silly.
 

Kelzie

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aps said:
*bats eyelashes* I do like the fact that he challenges me.

How are you, Kelzie?
Kind of upset. I smashed my finger in the drawer this morning. Still hurts like an SOB. I am not ashamed to admit that I screamed like a...girl.



Just a question to you and any other fellow lib who wants to answer. One thing that bugs the hell out of me is when people say that "us libs" can't comment on war since we've never fought in it. Isn't this thread doing the same thing to Republicans? Don't get me wrong, I do not support the reasons for invading Iraq, but I think Republicans should be able to support it regardless of if they have served or not. What's good for the goose and all...
 

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aps said:
LOL See, KC? This is me being silly.
Whad'ya do to him? Musta been rough...I called him out for randomly attacking something you said on another thread. I wanna read what made him so upset. I bet it was funny. :mrgreen:
 
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Kelzie said:
One thing that bugs the hell out of me is when people say that "us libs" can't comment on war since we've never fought in it.
That certainly would be upsetting. Has someone said this to you?
 
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