Report: Hillary Clinton would hike taxes by $1.3 trillion

[chuckiechan]

The federal government has no need to pay down the debt. Anyone who tells you different does not have a good grasp of our economic reality.

Federal debt is not like a mortgage; it doesn't need to be paid in full by a certain date. It can roll over indefinitely, because unlike a person, the federal government is not going to keel over. What matters is ensuring that the total debt does not get so large that we have serious issues paying the interest, and we are nowhere near that point.

E.g. Japan has a ludicrous debt-to-GDP ratio (229%), has not defaulted, is not likely to default, and is not suffering economically because of its government borrowing. (E.g. we don't hear much talk that Japan's debt is crowding out private sector borrowing, in part because its savings rate is incredibly high.)

And as interest rates go up an increasing amount of tax money has to be redirected to paying it.

 

[Henrin]

It's not even that high. They count as "rich" dual income families that make more than $166k.

Good point.

 

[Henrin]

Perhaps instead of lazy emoticons you could lay out what our benefit from Iraq and Afghanistan has been. We lost over 4 thousand heroes and 4 trillion dollars, what did we get in return?



Hrm.. Argue tax rates with someone who thinks all taxation is theft. Yeah, that sounds productive.

That doesn't answer the question. Why should anyone be sending 35% of their income to the state? Care to tell me how many months the state is taking from the person in terms of their earnings?

 

[Lutherf]

Rich people.
"Nearly all of the tax increases would fall on the top 1 percent; the bottom 95 percent of taxpayers would see little or no change in their taxes."
An Analysis of Hillary Clinton's Tax Proposals | Tax Policy Center

And the 99% need to understand that additional taxes on the 1% end up having a nasty rebound effect.

Since the majority of that additional tax is on capital that everyone uses the cost of capital increases for everyone or that capital is simply removed from the market. For example, if I know that I'm going to incur an additional 5% tax on property I'm selling then my asking price will be at least 5% higher than it otherwise would be. I will also be seeking investments with higher rates of return to offset the additional tax hit. That means that if I own a shopping mall I'll probably use some additional capital to increase the market value but that increase will also mean higher rents for the tenants which then means higher prices for the consumers.

 

[ludin]

:lamo

I am literally embarrassed for you! Did you bother to actually read the article you cited?

yes I know you are embarrassed what they said was true. did you miss that?
yep because you didn't read the article you only read what you wanted to read and ignored the rest
and well you ended up looking foolish for it.

By 2026 according to the CBO the interest on the debt and social spending will consume the entire federal budget.

true. so now you are calling politifact a liar? please prove they are lying? and what authority to say that they are lying?

 

[Crovax]

Report: Hillary Clinton would hike taxes by $1.3 trillion | Fox News


So who going to pay for this, no to mention the effect on the national debt?

"combined deficit effect of nearly $2.2 trillion over the next decade"

That's a $220 billion deficit per year, much smaller than we have had and below the GDP growth rate

 

[Kushinator]

By 2026 according to the CBO the interest on the debt and social spending will consume the entire federal budget.

Revenue ≠ budget, unless you assume they cannot borrow/raise additional revenue.

so now you are calling politifact a liar? please prove they are lying? and what authority to say that they are lying?

No need to appeal to authority. I just have to be able to read at a 9th grade level:

Wolf said the CBO projects that by 2025, every penny of the federal budget will go to interest on the debt as well as spending on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

The CBO report he cites says entitlements programs and debt interest will consume all the revenues going into the budget that year. Wolf’s language is a bit inexact, but we don’t think it detracts from his clear point: the U.S. is on a dangerous fiscal path.

 

[Crovax]

The federal government has no need to pay down the debt. Anyone who tells you different does not have a good grasp of our economic reality.

Federal debt is not like a mortgage; it doesn't need to be paid in full by a certain date. It can roll over indefinitely, because unlike a person, the federal government is not going to keel over. What matters is ensuring that the total debt does not get so large that we have serious issues paying the interest, and we are nowhere near that point.

E.g. Japan has a ludicrous debt-to-GDP ratio (229%), has not defaulted, is not likely to default, and is not suffering economically because of its government borrowing. (E.g. we don't hear much talk that Japan's debt is crowding out private sector borrowing, in part because its savings rate is incredibly high.)

Japans govt and central bank own almost 2/3rds of that debt so the number is a bit misleading they are actually at just about 80% of thier GDP.

 

[Henrin]

Revenue ≠ budget, unless you assume they cannot borrow/raise additional revenue.

You do realize they counted interest as part of the equation, right? Borrowing more money is not just going to magically fix the problem the article was talking about.

The real question is how much do you care to tax people. At some point the population will not tolerate it, so I suppose for those people that don't care about the property rights of others it all comes down to not stepping over that line.

 

[sangha]

And the 99% need to understand that additional taxes on the 1% end up having a nasty rebound effect.

Since the majority of that additional tax is on capital that everyone uses the cost of capital increases for everyone or that capital is simply removed from the market.

Uh, no. Capital is not removed from the economy. You can either spend your money (in which case the seller takes your money and invests it in their business), invest the money (in which case it's capital) or save it (in which case the bank you deposit it in lends it out as capital)

For example, if I know that I'm going to incur an additional 5% tax on property I'm selling then my asking price will be at least 5% higher than it otherwise would be.

Really? You can just raise your prices 5% and get it?

Then why haven't you already raised your prices 5%?

I will also be seeking investments with higher rates of return to offset the additional tax hit. That means that if I own a shopping mall I'll probably use some additional capital to increase the market value but that increase will also mean higher rents for the tenants which then means higher prices for the consumers.

Really? You can just raise your rent 5% and get it?

Then why haven't you already raised your rent?

 

[Crovax]

Look. Let's be a bit more honest about this. There is less than a 25% chance that Trump has even bothered to read "his" tax proposal, much less actually personally supports it, or would want to implement it, if he knew the specifics of it, which he doesn't.

Trump's tax plan says you send a paper that's says "I win" to the IRS and pay no taxes. That sounds like Trump made the tax plan himself

They get a new one page form to send the IRS saying, “I win,”

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform

 

[Dittohead not!]

Report: Hillary Clinton would hike taxes by $1.3 trillion | Fox News


So who going to pay for this, no to mention the effect on the national debt?

Hillary is going to pass a tax bill?

Really? Is that by executive order, or what?

 

[Exquisitor]

Report: Hillary Clinton would hike taxes by $1.3 trillion | Fox News


So who going to pay for this, no to mention the effect on the national debt?

Fortunately or not, Congress holds the purse strings not the President.

What will they agree to?

Can we send her Democratic Majorities?

Will this be enough?

What would a Republican Hill do with Mrs. Clinton?

Have we ever seen a President get his plan, so don't not vote for Hillary Clinton just because her wish list is 2.2 in the red?

 

[Roadvirus]

Report: Hillary Clinton would hike taxes by $1.3 trillion | Fox News


So who going to pay for this, no to mention the effect on the national debt?

The harpy is going to continue Obungle's destructive policies

 

[Lutherf]

Uh, no. Capital is not removed from the economy. You can either spend your money (in which case the seller takes your money and invests it in their business), invest the money (in which case it's capital) or save it (in which case the bank you deposit it in lends it out as capital)


Really? You can just raise your prices 5% and get it?

Then why haven't you already raised your prices 5%?



Really? You can just raise your rent 5% and get it?

Then why haven't you already raised your rent?

What makes you think I don't raise my prices? Generally speaking, existing clients get a small bump every year but new clients are often coming in at 50%+ the rate some of my long time clients are paying.

And sure you can raise rents 5% with little to no complaint from tenants. Those adjustments are almost always built into the lease and an increase on renewal is pretty much expected.

 

[sangha]

What makes you think I don't raise my prices? Generally speaking, existing clients get a small bump every year but new clients are often coming in at 50%+ the rate some of my long time clients are paying.

But you're talking about raising them an additional 5%. If you can get that additional 5%, why aren't you?

And sure you can raise rents 5% with little to no complaint from tenants.

Then why aren't rents 5% higher?

 

[Visbek]

And as interest rates go up an increasing amount of tax money has to be redirected to paying it.

Yes, but interest rates are not going up any time soon, and certainly not enough to generate a major increase in the costs of borrowing.

 

[iguanaman]

Yeah, so what rates did people actually pay?

And why should anyone be sending 35% or more of their salary to the government?

Because the wealthy are socking away trillions that is destabilizing our financial system. It is unsustainable.

 

[Lutherf]

But you're talking about raising them an additional 5%. If you can get that additional 5%, why aren't you?


Then why aren't rents 5% higher?

You're going to have to fill me in on what you're talking about. Are you asking me why I don't call a client that's already paid me and ask them for another 5%? With regard to rents I've seen them go up pretty consistently over the years. A lot of those rent increases are due to property tax increases which is directly analogous to what we're discussing.

 

[sangha]

You're going to have to fill me in on what you're talking about. Are you asking me why I don't call a client that's already paid me and ask them for another 5%?

It's pretty simple, Luther

I'm asking you why didn't charge them 5% more than you did?

With regard to rents I've seen them go up pretty consistently over the years. A lot of those rent increases are due to property tax increases which is directly analogous to what we're discussing.

I'm asking you why they weren't 5% higher than they were all those years.

 

[Lutherf]

It's pretty simple, Luther

I'm asking you why didn't charge them 5% more than you did?



I'm asking you why they weren't 5% higher than they were all those years.

I have no idea what you're trying to get at. Until an additional expense becomes a reality or a foregone conclusion there is no need to raise fees. Taxes are, ultimately, an expense so when they go up revenue needs to go up to maintain net income.

 

[chuckiechan]

As the economy improves under Trump, interest rates will go up as demand for loans goes up.

 

[iguanaman]

As the economy improves under Trump, interest rates will go up as demand for loans goes up.

Interest rates a driven by inflation pressure. Do you expect a increase in inflation under Trump too?

 

[chuckiechan]

Interest rates a driven by inflation pressure. Do you expect a increase in inflation under Trump too?

Economic activity is inflationary by its nature, so there will be some, but the theory being "a rising tide lifts all boats except those on a fixed income".

 

[iguanaman]

Economic activity is inflationary by its nature, so there will be some, but the theory being "a rising tide lifts all boats except those on a fixed income".

So more of that "trickle down" nonsense.